Daedra are pretty much very human-like in their behavior. Sure, they're immortal yadda-yadda and all that; but they are actually quite mundane in their attitude. Except maybe Herma-Mora, and even then... And they do feel emotions; oh yes they do. Anger, envy, curiosity, boredom, surprise, joy, sadness, love, courage, even fear and despair. The most powerful they are, the more true that is; a daedra that is intellectually closer to an automaton than to a sentient being (in other words, a vermai) feels no emotion, while a Dremora or Golden Saint can be likened to mortals for most of their psyche. The Daedra Princes are even more so.

Which is why they give off this "Greco-Roman pantheon" vibe.

By "even more so," do you mean even closer to a full human personality, or above one? I mean, obviously the Dremora are like a very strict, yet very human, society. But a daedric prince, as had been said, is colored constantly by thier own sphere. dagon's every thought involves something getting the [censored] blown out of it in some capacity, for example?

Not got much time here -

Note also the nature of the Winged Twighlights - fundmentally feral - but they are not Azura

A man can have a cat that plays with a mouse and not reject th ecat because of its nature

The bit about judgement is sound - bu tthat is also true of 'the Gods' they can be very judgemental and their punishments can be terrible - they kill.

Azura seems a bit cat-like. Very friendly an ddoes have with claws. But she does not ham it up.

She is also solicitious with those she sees. But I believe it is difficult for Gods and Princes to see ordinary mortals - because there is so little to them. so it is wonderful that any Prince wopuld have compassion for mortals.

Also Azura is a Daedric Prince and so th estandards of what is cruel and what is nice are differnt in kind. Daedra live and act on the long view. And in the tales you mentioned it is possible that there were factors that the writers were not aware of.

As for reversing her 'curse' - have you asked the DUNmer if that is what they want. I suspect that the majority would tell you that they are perfectly happy as they are.

Maybe it's backwards. That is mortals are constantly coloring the spheres of the princes, which are also the original ideas.

Hmmm... I think that since a mortal isn't bound naturally to any one sphere, they seem to be more "complete" than a Prince. For example, You get someone who, for example, likes to read dreams, but also likes to blow [censored] up. That's two spheres already. Obviously, they aren't at the center of any one, but still.

I've always thought of humans as more perfect then Gods. I mean I'm not trying to sound conceded, sure Gods are way more powerful then humans and can kill them with a breath, but Gods are kind of like animals in the way that they are bound by a particular theme in life and their thinking is always the same. Humans have the power of free will and can pretty much be anything they set their minds to. They don't have to follow nature. Also Gods get their strength from their followers who believe in them, and when they start to loose their followers they grow weak.

Well, I'm just doing the lit-student thing and drawing parallels, really. Where those parallels lead is something else entirely. What I'm trying to say is, I don't have any end destination, I'm just pulling stuff out of the air


That is very interesting.

Azura was so piqued by the hubris of three mortals who tapped the Heart of Lorkhan that she threw a hissy fit and cursed their entire race. Or maybe she wasn't angry and just considered the actions of the newly-acended Tribunal to be a good excuse for some major meddling.

Nocturnal has been described as an echo of the Void. Likewise, Azura strikes me as an echo of the Grey, the mingling of Anu and Padhome. Certainly twilight can be seen this way in the skies of Mundus, when the Anuic light of the Sun blends with the Padomaic darkness of Oblivion. It's interesting too that she, a Daedra, takes the Moon and Stars as personal symbols, considering what those things really are. Her sphere is 'transition', amongst other things, and in that she may be a more fundamental element of the Aurbis than might first be thought. I consider Azura to be a constant meddler and manipulator, one who interferes just for the sake of changing things rather than for any ideal.

I find it funny that something created by humans (Im talking about it being a game, not the lore part of it) is far to alien to be understood by humans.


Any ways on topic, as it has been said non of the Deadra are evil nor good, they dont do something to hurt some one or group of people because it is bad or save some one because it is good, they just do what they want.

I don't think that the Nine are nessesarily good either, I think that they are more involved with the lives of man and mer but I don't see them doing any thing for humans out of the kindness of their astroprogected hearts.

Ghost

I'm a little disappointed that there is, as far as I know, no artifact associated with Azura's Moon.

That brings up an interesting thought though, Azura's artifact "The Star of Azura" is a soul gem used to trap souls. Maybe it symbolizes that Azura traps souls into her realm by her seductive beauty? I mean a lot of the Daedric Princes seem to enjoy capturing souls like Molag Bal, Hermeaus Mora, and Clavicus Vile.

I think we shouldnt overanolyse the artefacts. Sanguine likes to boost skills? Doesnt seem inherent to him... artefcts could as well (rpobably are) just something the Princes make for their convinience, to support their champions or as part of "diplomatic" dealings with each other.

Boost skills? I'm confused...... I thought Sanguine's Rose just summoned random Daedra that attack both players and enemies? Anyways you're wrong, a lot of the Artifacts do symbolize their creator's nature. For instance Wabbajack symbolizes Sheogorath's insanity (it turns creatures into really random creatures, from daedroth to troll to sheep), and Namira's ring symbolizes how she reflects the pain inflicted on her and her followers on the "beautiful people" who shun them (because it reflects damage and spells).

The Sanguine Artefacts that can be found in Morrowind. Several, and you have to gather them for a Morag Tong (side)quest. Sanguine made them for Mephala, you see, and every of those artefacts (rings, belts, etc) constantly fortifies one skill by 5. That has rather not so much to do with Sanguines Sphere, no?

And Namira as protectress of the outcasts? That seems like an odd intepretation, too, that would be Malacaths job, normally...

Well have you played Namira's quest in Oblivion? She wants you to save her followers from Priests of Arkay who are trying to "bring light" to them, which they don't want. That sounds like she's looking after their needs to me. Yes Malacath is similar, but he rules over the Orcs and Ogers, Namira rules over the ugly and unattractive.

Actually, "outcasts" is described as part of Malacatsh sphere. Orcs just so happen to be outcasts... (well, that and they were his followers when he still was Trinimac). Per orginal description, Namira's sphere is basically everything humans find repulsive, so, yes, I guess, ugliness is part of it, too. That she actually cares for ugly persons, though... eh, she protected a cult of herself. Self-interest

Mortals have the capacity for higher faculties as well as baser urges. Of course, they're also capable of something new. It's the mortal spirit of change that makes mortals so interesting to the Daedra.

It sorta amuses me that Daedra are usually placed in Sithis's Camp and yet Daedra are so fundamentally unchanging. So I suppose that there is somethig more Sithitic in Nature within Humans than might be thought

well when i gave Martin Azura's Star for the quest were he needs a Daedric artifact, he said
"It is as beautiful as all the tales say, but it is only a mask of its real nature."

so, in my opinion, Azure mainly gets people to love her by beauty, some small act of kindness and then throws them away.
such as Azure's quest. she sends her followers to there doom in that cave with vampires. no doubt, they become vampires themselves.

You make it clear that you believe that Quests are superficial things and that there is only success at the end. But a true quest includes the possibility of failure - even terrible outcomes are possible - including death. Without challenge they would be errands, not quests. I think you have been spoiled by your success as CoC.

Try re-interpreting that quest - but make sure you understand what a Daedric Prince is first. Read about the doings of the daedra a bit more, and play Battlespire.

You seem to assume also that Daedra are really humans and that their perception of the world is like yours - if you look at it from a daedra's point of view you might see something new and possibly interesting.

I don't remember Martin saying "It's only a mask of its real nature", I thought he only said the first part "Ah Azura's Star, as beautiful as all the tales tell". I'm trying to say you're wrong, I'm just saying that's all I've heard him say about it.

I personally kind of see them as eager children with ant farms. Or perhaps building blocks. Or both. I don't think they're so much immoral as amoral, not perceiving things from any sort of human moral stance of good and evil at all but with detached amusemant or lack thereof, much like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak3z2Pm7Iwg. Or perhaps I'm off the mark.

Daedric Princes are not good or evil, They only do what their spheres require.

But all are treacherous and should only be dealt with extreme caution.

Yes, the Daedric Princes may not be purely evil, but they are all obviously dangerous to mortals and shouldn't be messed with, but appearantly mortals mess with them anyways. Talk about playing with fire.