I'm really fascinated by the Daedric Princes in the Elder Scrolls games. I've never seen them as evil like the worshippers of the Nine Divines do, in fact they really remind me of the Gods and Goddesses in Greek Mythology, because of the fact that they have more human-like faults then other Gods and they really don't give a care about mortals, but usually cause chaos for them.


Anyways I'm really fascinated about Azura; the Daedric Prince of Twilight. So many books seem to label her as the only "Good" Daedric Prince, and even the followers of the Nine Divines seem to think of her more highly then the other Daedric Princes. But I find that there's more to her then meets the eye. When you first meet Azura you see this kind, beautiful, motherly Goddess who cares deeply for her worshippers and wishes the best for them. But Azura is known to have a fiery temper and is not one to anger. For instance I read (but have not played Daggerfall) that she actually asks the Hero to murder a healer just because they were talking bad about her. And in a book I read titled "Azura and the Box", she punished a mage with death who managed to decieve her with a flower hidden in a box. Mommy Dearest much?

But anyways another thing about Azura is her Plane of Oblivion. In Moonshadow it is stunningly beautiful, but all mortals who enter it become half-blind. Maybe this symbolizes Azura? Like the people who worship her are also blinded by her beauty and cannot see her true motives. Plus she rules over twilight, which tends to kind of hide things in darkness against the light from the setting or rising sun.

I think there might be something a little shadey about Azura and it makes you wonder, does she truely care about her followers? Because it seems to be that she treats them like pets, and puts them down when she grows tired of them.

I think you got it just about right. Congratulations.

I'm kind of new to the series, so I'm just pointing out what I've observed.

Meridia and Nocturnal are similarly 'neutral' when it comes to human affairs. This may have been planned:

Meridia: light
Azura: dawn/dusk
Noctorunal: darkness

Azura is... puzzling. Its as if her sphere (the thing she stands for) works on two levels.

On one level, Azura is the "rim of all holes" - the spirit of dawn and dusk, starts and endings. Fair enough, sounds reasonable for a Daedric sphere.

On another level, though, her sphere seems to be "being a manipulative high school b...". Always trying to get attention, becoming jelous if she doesnt get attention, being maipulative, trying to suceed by good looks (even though Daedra can change looks at will anyways). Which may be fine as Daedric sphere, too (I mean, Mephalas sphere seems to be "amusment on the mortals expense), but - how do the two things fit together?

As for Azura being good - see above. Mainly, shes simply manipulative, and seems to have a good PR agent. So she comes across as good. She isnt inherently so. OTOH - one might say, who cares? At least she doesnt go destroying everything a la Dagon, or go on a [censored] tour a la Molag Bal. For whatever motivations she doesnt doesnt matter. In actions, if not motivations, Azura mainly is "good"...

I don't think Meridia was actually associated with light, I think she was associated with the life energy of the living. But yeah, she and Nocturnal are both very neatral. I do know Nocturnal is Azura's sister, so they kind of parallel each other. One rules light, the other rules darkness. They're also very opposite, Azura is more open and enjoys attention, while Nocturnal is very secretive and shy.

She seems nice... But really, she is the Daedric Prince of Vanity. And she does see her mortal worshipers as toys; in Morrowind you can see her priestess she condemned to a life of silence and solitude because of a bet with Sheogorath, and in Oblivion you have to kill followers that she sealed in a mine so that they'd turn into vampires and get driven to frothing madness through starvation rather than simply letting them seek the nearest healer before the onset (since most likely, said healer would have been a priest of the Nine Divine).

Her servants are Aurorans, she is a child of Magnus the Sun, and got cast out for consorting with illicit spectres (which most likely means lights). Yeah, pretty much light.


Yes, but as said, how does that fit with her other aspects?

Gez, that's another good point. I find it strange that Azura the "kindess" and "most loving" Daedric Prince would let her followers suffer for years in a cave by being vampires and claim to be burdened by their suffering, when she should have the power to put them out of their misery with a breath, being that she's a Daedric Prince. Why would she wait for centuries for some hero to come along and do her dirty work?

Azura didn't send her followers into the mine so they'd become vampires. She sent them to kill vampires, but it didn't work out as planned.

Azura is somewhat like Vivec. Mostly, only the good aspects are seen (she has compassion, doesn't have a penchant for extremism, and is not twisted like most of the other Daedra), but there is clearly a darker side to her that is acknowledged subconciously.

Yes, but she still left them in there to suffer for centuries, when she could have easily ended their suffering herself, probably more then the hero in Oblivion could.

Perhaps she didn't send them, and didn't see it as her responsibility? Perhaps she didn't want to order her followers to try and kill them in case the same thing happened again?

I think he meant that she could kill them with some sort of Deadric Power, though it might be what you just said

I'm not sure that any of the Daedric Princes, including Azura, can really be described as 'good' or 'evil' - they're just too different from us for our standards to apply. Certainly she seems nicer than any of the others (with the possible exception of Meridia), but that's really not saying much. My own view is that she probably does care at least somewhat for her followers, but like other Daedra, it's pretty much in her nature to see the mortal world as a kind of living chessboard. It's quite possible that she genuinely believes everything she does to be completely justified, however cruel and callous it may seem to mortals - after all, she probably can't conceive what it's like to be human any more than we can conceive what it's like to be a Daedra Lord.

Azura reminds me somewhat of a little girl playing with dolls (if the little girl were immortal, quasi-omniscient, and incredibly powerful). She may love her dolls, but ultimately they're still just toys to her - and if she's in a bad mood, she won't hesitate to smash them to pieces. I think the lesson is, she may be the only 'good Daedra', but you definitely don't want to get on her bad side.

Well I don't believe the Daedric Princes are completely good or evil either. It's like they're kind of a mix of both, but some are more extreme then others. And like I was mentioning of how they are similar to the Gods in Greek Mythology, they view humans the way humans view animals. Sure they can care for animals, but they still see all animals as inferior to them, and they are. Humans have the power to help animals repopulate and survive better, or make them completely extinct. Like how the Daedric Princes influence the Mortals. Most Daedric Princes tend to cause problems for mortals like how humans cause problems for animals, but it's not always intentional. Sometimes it's just because that's the nature of them.

I love the way you compared Azura to a little girl with dolls. That really does fit Azura perfectly, she treats her followers like a little girl treats her dolls.

Daedra aren't like people; they don't feel human emotions, or the like. Mostly, they view mortals as playthings and pawns- it just depends on what their interests are. Azura likes beauty and dazzling- hence dawn and dusk. So she keeps her followers like a girl keeps dolls until something happens that causes her to throw a tantrum, and destroy them. Others, like Mehrunes Dagon, perhaps- are more interested in war games and destruction. He's not evil, per se- he's just one of the most dangerous to mortals.

I would more or less agree with what you've said, Ningy. Very observant.

True. The daedra are far to alien for us to truly understrand. It's like ants trying to find out what motivates humans.


However, becaue we lack good labels to define the actions of the Deadra, I do believe that labeling them as good or evil, or atleast as harmless and harmful is still necessary.


And the Daedra are not humans. Therfore it is silly to hold them accountable to human morality. Mudcrabs and cllifracers are not amoral even though they kill innocent people, so why should the Daedra be considered amoral?

Yes, the 'animals' metaphor is good as well.


Can we be sure of this? Certainly a lot of them appear to feel anger, which is a very human emotion.

Just out of interest, http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/invocation_of_azura.shtml is how one of Azura's own priestesses describes her (obviously not necessarily an objective view...)

Well it seems like some Daedric Princes are more "good" then others. And some are more evil. I'd say the ones who can be considered evil (because they harm mortals) are Mehrunes Dagon (destroys mortals), Molag Bal (captures mortal souls), Mephala (causes strife among mortals for her pleasure), Clavicus Vile (makes deals with mortals so he can find ways to take their souls), and Hircine (hunts mortals like beasts for sport). The ones who can be considered "good" are Azura (acts nice to her followers, .... most of the time), Meridia (enemy of the undead), Nocturnal (never really bothers anyone, just likes to be secretive), Peryite (more like my anul retenative uncle then a powerful God) and Malacath (enemy to other races, but he seems pretty nice to his Orcs and Ogers). Now the ones who aren't very nice to mortals, but aren't very deadly like say Mephala. Vaermina (she gives mortals nightmares, but that's a lot better then getting murdered or your soul snatched), Namira (hates everything beautiful and is associated with repulsive things like spiders and diseases), Boethia (doesn't really do anything decietful to steal souls, he just battles his oppenents and takes their souls if they loose), Sanguine (is associated with drinking and six, not exactly good, but not very evil compared to other Daedric Princes), Sheogorath (likes to annoy mortals with pranks and drive them insane), and Hermaeus Mora (controls knowledge and fate. He's kind of neutral if you ask me).

That's my take on them.

I don't know that we can. It's just something I feel that, having read about them and met them in-game, they appear to me. Also... I suppose, when looking at the Aedra, who tend to embody that which humans admire (loyalty, mercy, nobility) and without much in the way of vengeance and cruelty, who also appear to be rather consistent in their methods, and then at the Daedra, their polar opposites (ish) who are not, even the 'good' ones, merciful, loyal, or noble... or consistent... well. *shrugs*

I don't know. I don't claim to be a lorist, and I don't feel like wading through all the books and texts I've looked at. I'm just offering an opinion.

I think that if Azura were truly good, she would have rewarded the success of the Nerevarine by revoking her great curse.

The daedric princes, and Azura especially, remind me of the Greek and Roman pantheons. In that way, gods are neither good nor evil - they are almost just humans who happen to have divine powers. They are jealous, insecure, prone to hurt and humiliation, and often self-centred and vain. Obviously they have their good qualities, but they are shades of grey, not black and white. Azura is the classic greek goddess archetype - gracious and generous to those who are devoted to her, but not above jealousy and vengeance, and not above sacrificing mortals to her own ends.

Of course, the spheres of the daedra add an extra level to this; for most of them, they have a set 'nature' that drives them, such as Mehrunes Dagon and destruction. They may make conscious decisions within these, but for the most fully defined spheres like Dagon's, it will obviously colour all their choices.

Azura is great because as far as interactions go she is the kindest to her mortal worshippers and servants, but she is a really petty psycho-[censored]. Like my buddy Sam's girlfriend.

Rumps has it perfect, I think.

That's a very good observation Rumpleteasza, in fact when you think about it, even the Daedric Princes have some human qualities, but they seem to represent the more chaotic side of humanity, whiles the Nine Divines kind of represent how humans think everything should be in life, with order and unconditional love and respect.

That's how I see it, too. There are also some interesting parallels between humans and daedra in the classification that aedra create, and daedra can only change what exists - it implies a certain symbolic dissatisfaction on the part of the daedra. Humans, of course, will never stop trying to change their lot in life, and the one thing we can unequivocally lay claim to is progress - an ever-shifting, ever-changing melting-pot of societies. Daedra feel similar to me in that it always seems to be them that are causing change in Tamriel (Azura's Chimer/Dunmer, Dagon invading Cyrodiil), and the aedra who are fighting to reverse those rash changes.