Regarding the whole difficulty arguments. People go to exceptional lengths arguing to not be considered a bad player. There is nothing inherently wrong with being a bad player, if you learn. We were all bad players at one time. Don't let any elitists or "pros" fool you. They were once bad players too. They had to learn just the same as everyone else how to be a better player.

Really the only bad thing about being a bad player is if you refuse to learn. If you have not legitimately tried to accomplish something in multiple ways including thinking outside the box, getting an extra level or two, improving gear, trying new strategies, thinking about positioning, or asking other players for advice and think that whatever you are facing is an issue? Yes, then it is a bad thing.

I'm currently considered a good player or even a very good player. It took me years to accept this because Dark Age of Camelot was my first MMORPG and it beat the living daylights out of me for like 1-2 years lol. I was constantly learning to improve and always felt like so many people were better than me, still do in fact. So it took me years to realize that I was actually a cut above your average gamer because of that experience. Adversity breeds strength as they say. Because of this I ended up guiding alot of players through the ropes of various MMORPG's. When mentoring someone you have to realize that all the things you consider easy or think they might be stupid for not knowing are the very same things you went through at one time.

These experiences have greatly magnified my enjoyment of games of all sorts. I can appreciate a challenge and I've learned to much more appropriately call out when something is challenging but fair (Dark Souls, Devil May Cry 3, Elder Scrolls Online) or just broken (The original contra without the cheat code hahahaha).

Really you are not a bad player if you learn. You are an inexperienced one and you can be an inexperienced player at something even with years of gaming under your belt. Dark Souls really hammered that home hard for me lol. I still have bruises. You are only a bad player if you refuse to learn and adapt. When you refuse to try all the things at your disposal to beat something but instead consider it broken without even testing out all your options. There will always be better or easier classes/specs/weapons, but as you gain experience as a player in each game you can learn to overcome them all unless they are extremely brokenly bad....which is very rare.

tl;dr Exhaust your resources folks. You'll be surprised what you can accomplish and how much you improve over time.

I'm pretty bad.

It's okay though. =)

Unfortunately there will be players who want you to be a pro at character creation these super duper hardcoe min/maxers will always be around but with a game like this doing things arguably not done before the learning curve and patience of the general public should be much more forgivable as we all learn together

I think I'm learning to be both a better player and easier on myself.

I've been a bad player for a long time. I charge in blindly, mash buttons, and don't learn from mistakes. I will beat a game with brute force unless it forces me to do otherwise. And for mmos, for the longest time I never took advantage of online resources and info.

I was surprised at how much better I was at the last mmo I played. I am gonna have to try harder for ESO, though. It isn't all that easy and brute force won't get me far.

Min Maxing is what ESO will be about in late game serious instance raids, like it or not...

I had a few face palm moments in game. Luckily I was just solo. Like I kept ignoring the cone ae damage on a boss. After dying twice, I realized I could dodge them all.

In my defense, every mob up to that point I could safely ignore their abilities. And the critter was a couple levels above me.

That is exactly it. This is why I took time out to describe some of the specific details of crafting and stuff throughout the weekend and gave pointers on some in game things or even helped directly. For common questions though I did direct them to the help files. Because if I prevent someone from learning and grow as a player I am actually not helping them, I am hurting them.

As the saying goes: "teach a man to fish..."

Part of learning to be a better player overall IS being easier on yourself sometimes. There is a time to get a little more serious but these games are for fun after all. IF you are super serious all the time you may technically play the game better than alot of other people, but you can still be a worse overall player because other people and community matter too. Having more fun also makes learning both faster and more enjoyable because it doesn't feel like work and being a little loose actually makes you play better because you can kind of "get in the zone" when things get rough easier.

I am a pretty good shooter guy. I can hold my own in most deathmatch situations and at one time, many years ago, was a bit of a Q3 monster. My son too, but it was my daughter who made us both look bad, she is something else.

Anyhoo I am new to MMO and it's a hoot. All I got is good movement and aiming skills. I can hit any pixel on the screen right now! Yup those skills are a huge help.

The complexity is fun, my son and I are learning fast and we are about to go voice chat, just as he gets his beta guy to level 10. Hope we have one more so he can see Cyrodiil, with his present guy.

Actually, it's OK to be a bad player even if you don't learn, as long as you are having fun

There's plenty of content en ESO to support every skill level.

The only time it might be a problem is if you're trying to do the hardest content without the skills needed to succeed at it, in which case you're in for a frustrating experience -- and so is your group, if you're in one. If you do coop, you owe it to the others to play at least up to the standard required to beat the content.

Aside from that, who cares?

Some elitists/pros really are flat out good at playing the game. However as my last reply says even those people are not really better players because MMORPG's are not just about playing the game. Especially when PVP is involved where teamwork with other guilds and pug groups is going to be important. Interpersonal skills and kindness still matter.

There are also of course the try hards that consider themselves pros but are in reality middling to terrible players lol.

As far as saying you are good? I don't think anyone can say they themselves are good. Like Gabriel Iglesias in his fluffy jokes, you can't tell if your damn, other people have to tell you. As mentioned for me it took years of other people referring to me as a good player for me to really believe it, as well as some invites into some respected guilds (not jerks) that were selective in their membership. granted I declined because I can play seriously but I prefer playing with more fun, but it was still quite the surprise to me at the time.

Basically you can't say you're good, other people have to tell you that you are good. Your opinion, as you, is severely compromised after all .

TES is indeed all about that fun exploration and the more immersive and laid back side of games. Dungeons seem to get kind of hard core though and PVP? PVP is surious bidness for alot of people lol. But I'll have fun and with any luck I'll end up in a really laid back guild who has good players but isn't all super OMG gotta do the best evar every time!!

Hm? No it isn't When I play the SP TES games, I try to develop a build which is going to make me successful in combat, the same way I play ANY RPG, regardless of whether it's single or multiplayer. And there's no sense in which that is "un-TES"... on the contrary, from a lore perspective those games' stories are predicated on the idea that the player is a uniquely talented individual, for reasons which vary in the different games

The SP TES games have all had a difficulty slider (since it was patched in mid-Morrowind), which implies that they are designed to support a range of playstyles, from min-maxers who want a challenge to more relaxed players just wanting to enjoy the story without stress. Neither group is discriminated against.

ES games are also about emerging victorious from difficult battles against challenging enemies. If your version of the games' intent was correct, there would be no combat in them at all

One problem is that there's no real tutorial in this game. There's Coldharbour, which is supposed to be a tutorial area, but it's not exactly instructional.

Game: Hold RMB to block this mob's attack!

Player: Why? He hits like a kitten.

Game: Press LMB+RMB to interrupt that skeleton before he shoots you with a special arrow attack!

Player: Why? If I spam LMB, I can kill him before he's even done charging up that attack.

Game: Here's a snake-daedra boss for you to fight. Prepare yourself!

Player: You gave me a healer companion who can heal me through any damage I take...

That tutorial teaches nothing but bad habits. No wonder players think it's boring, and no wonder players are surprised when Gutsripper whoops their butt for the first time. They haven't learned to block, they haven't learned to avoid red circles, and they haven't been encouraged to include CC in their build. It's like thinking you can play the guitar, when all you know is power chords.

Those solo bosses serve as an eye-opener to all the players who were able to progress through the game half-asleep up to that point. That's not a bad thing, IMO.

-Travail.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. Maybe this is just me but the tendency to avoid learning is a serious life weakness that goes far beyond just the game IMO. Because everyone is well capable of learning.

I will be patient with you, I will help you, I will let you flounder and gain experience, I'll do basically everything in my power to assist you in your growth if you are willing to learn. But if you are not, to be honest I do not want anything to do with you. As long as you are only impacting yourself you are only making your own life choice and that is your right, but the moment that you begin to inflict yourself on others and they have to suffer negative repercussions because of your choice to not care about learning you are doing something that is wrong. I'd actually consider it a sophisticated version of trolling lol.

I'd treat someone similar if they didn't feel like bathing. Or if someone had very strong beliefs and never felt like learning about people with different beliefs and then have discussions with them about it. To me, that's anathema. If you are not willing to try, why should I try with you? You can only help those that help themselves.

if your not a pro pvp player this game isnt for you, its just that simple not trying to be mean or anything else but this is a pvp game where the goal is to be emperor if your not good enough to be emperor well your just not good enough

btw its ok to be a jerk I mean elite player as long as you keep your opinions to yourself

I've been there myself, I know exactly what you're on about. I come from a background of being a complete and utter noob, I knew that then and I know that today. But I also improved my gameplay by miles.

Yes it is! As long as you actually don't come off as anything else it's fine

People are people, there are idiots everywhere. Good, bad, elitists, scrubs, you name it. But I can guarantee that most of the time the people that are the jerks are the ones trying to be elitists but in reality they have no idea what they're on about. As the OP said, nobody starts out as a pro and if you've made that journey you tend to become humble with people that don't know as much, because you recognize yourself in their way of playing/thinking.

I want to agree, but, I can't. Not to 100% anyway. I remember this terrible player in my guild from WoW, but all he had was excuses for why he died, let the tanks die (that would be me) "-I did heal you! -No you didn't, I was watching my HP drop like a bomb and the combat log says you were healing somebody else -Nope, the combat log is wrong", omg he was so frustrating.. I remember having to tell him how to heal, but he didn't believe me because "you're not a healer, you don't understand" but later on other healers convinced him otherwise.. he was terrible.. I'm sure he had fun though (except from the constant nagging from the rest of us in the raids).
No, it's not always fine as long as you have fun, that's all I'm saying

You don't learn until you suffer severe negative repercussions for it.

To be honest the game slowly ramps up it's general mob challenge level from 1-15. It would be bad design to have the first boss rip you in half. By the time you get to level 7-8 you should have put these concepts into practice at least one or twice though. IIRC they are actually making general mobs slightly more difficult as well as increasing the damage they do with charged attacks (things wut give you red "avoid this" lines) so that should help. They are also slightly incresing your early game leveling rate (and decreasing end game leveling rate similarly) and making those beginner bosses a little easier but making end game bosses harder.

People were suffering from foo strategies a bit it seems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

They took this in mind and are ramping more slowly into the challenge now, but keeping the challenge.

Granted, this is not the fault of the game designers really. This is the game designer trying to compensate for players so that the players do not undercut their own experience.

exactly my point and this game is gonna have rudolph and dancer and prancer and all the other little pvp boyz runnin round town with their emperor titles bragging all about how they are the greatest players that ever lived in this totally awesomesauce pvp game that is the most amazing pvp game they could ever have dreamed of and telling all the rest of us who dont give a flying rats [censored] about pvp how bad we are because of it

This really applies to anything in your life -- not just video games. Well put!

Like Srikandi said though, it's okay to be bad at something if you still enjoy it!

Pro means professional, are there really any pro's playing ESO? Not really..

Years back in Darkfall, a ton of "pro playa's" decided they wanted to play TF2. That was the biggest eye opener for me on how bad, bads can be and how easy it is to hide bad players in an mmo. Safe to say I got to see first hand what hardcoe pvpers did in Tf2 and Quakelive and let me tell you "Pro" is NOT it, more like BAD.

I was guild leader, raid leader, hardcoe raider, had server first achievements etc. and it always please me to teach someone who want to learn. I took players that had problem turning their characters around and made them hardcoe raiders.

What i hate thought is people who are bad and refuse to learn (go into their shell and dont listen to anyone or are simply convince they are right).

For me personally it is fine to be a bad player aslong as your attitude is good.

A bad player with a bad attitude pointing fingers at others for his/her own failings is the most irritating thing ever. And sadly way too common.

It is all about your attitude.

I was learning to play this game with keyboard and mouse slowly over the w/e but I would like to believe I was learning. I was pretty bad tho... lol...