I lol every time someone says "Roleplay" it seems like this term only applies to bethesda games I've never ever ever seen anyone complain about it in any other game ever

it's almost as if they expect a role-playing experience from a developer that claims their games are role-playing games.

my gosh I thought you were playing a "role" your the sole survivor...seems like a role to me..ppl just complain to complain because bethesda didn't make the game THEY feel like should've been made

if you're going to simplify the definition of 'role-play' like that then you might as well call all games rpgs.

I guess you could coudnt you

With that definition even games like FIFA and Madden are RPGs, because you play the role of the athletes. Yet they are not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PqMe7fydq4

check out this link to see what i mean

I understand what you mean I'm giving you a hard time ...bethesda obviously focused more on a set story...Why?...because people asked for it and complained how bad fo3 story was..So bethesda obliged and put forth a more compelling focused narrative damned if you do and if you don't..there are definitely some thing I don't like in fo4 however the game is overall a absolute triumph ppl are complaining because they got what they asked for

You could. There used to be a member across multiple forums who would argue until blue that 'Pong' can be considered an RPG. Thing is, if you have a respect for RPG's origins, the further from the origins you get...the less of an RPG you are.

people were upset because fallout 3's story was just plain stupid. a lot of original fallout fans didn't want a set story where you're forced to be a father/mother looking for a son(which they seem quite nonchalant about after meeting up with codsworth for the first time in 200 years), they just wanted to have the choice as to whether they wanted to or not. that's why the courier in new vegas is so loved.

alot of ppl like 3 alot more then new vegas..All I'm saying is ppl seem to be upset because bethesda didn't make the game THEY want or what they feel fallout is..I love all the fallout games...Bethesda isn't going to.change their formula because it's wildly successful

The only weak point I really notice is dialogue and it's far from terrible. Besides I would personally have the more solid gameplay features we have in this game over more dialogue that I might not end up caring about anyways.

I'm not far enough in the story to judge the writing, but the dialogue system is terrible and my one huge issue with this game. Not only does what you say almost never matter but they rub it in your face by not even fully telling you what the options are. It's like the game admits to itself that dialogue choices just don't matter and you should hit a random button other than B to move on.

i have yet to meet these people

more like people are upset because bethesda didn't make the game THEY could have made.

the formula of sub-par writing is wildly successful?

Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XllttBJi98

You know what ?

I see a lot of people criticizing Fallout 4 saying its not Fallout, or that its not a good RPG although its a good game. But it seems to me that this amount of people while they may have legit arguments, they don't know how to communicate them well, as they are not familiar with specific RPG terms that would allow them to communicate their complains better.

The true problem is that Bethesda since Skyrim have focused on catering to two certain types of Roleplayers, the 'Power Gamer' and the 'Butt Kicker', ignoring / neglecting the other types of role players.

RPGs are close to completing 40 years of existing, and from early on it was observed that there are some certain types of people that played and enjoyed Role Playing Games.

About 95% of the players who will play RPG games, fit in one or more of those player types.

The most popular Role Player types are:

1) The Power Gamer.

This type of player wants to become a god in the game, and enjoys most powering up his character, and spends much time studying the rules and ways a game offers, that will lead him to make an uber-character. He will often look for small windows like exploits for example to achieve his goal, and doesn't care much about story, or playing roles etc.

2) The Butt Kicker.

This type of player just wants to have many fights and be good at them, without necessarily being OP or caring much about the character's powers. He mostly enjoys fighting and wants a lot of good, rewarding fights.

3) The Tactician.

This player likes to spend much time thinking of the best ways, routes, and startegies and tactics to use, to get the wanted result. He enjoys mostly enjoys the game when it gives him enough challenge to strategize, and it responds in a believable / realistic way to his strategy, making him feel smart.

4) The Specialist.

This player wants to enact specific roles, may it be the stealthy assassin, the noble knight, the hard outlaw or whatever. This player mostly enjoys a game that allows him to enact his favorite role / archetype.

5) The Method Actor.

This person wants to express its own self, and usually makes characters after its own. It mostly enjoys a game when it allows him to express his views, tastes etc through options like eg dialogue options.

6) The Story Teller.

This person wants to take part in a good, intriguing story, and mostly enjoys a game that gives an experience similar to a well written book or movie. It is willing to ignore other stuff if the story is good.

Reading about the common player types, you might recognize that you fit in one or two of these types yourself, and also its easier for you to recognize now to whom each different RPG aims for.

Mass Effect is aiming Method Actors most, and Story Tellers a smaller bit. The Witcher mostly is aiming at Story Tellers, with more balanced little bits for the other types of players.

When it comes to Bethesda, it seems that in the past it was trying to make their games have some balance and not to cater to a specific Role Player type, albeit the older Elder Scroll games were more focused to the Specialist players. But with Skyrim a new age started, because Skyrim is obviously mostly catering to the Power Gamer with some attention also for the Butt Kicker, and the Specialist player types, with the attention paid to the Specialist type being less than in previous Elder Scrolls games.

As for Fallout 4, it clearly shifted focus. Fallout 3 was more aiming to the Power Gamer and Method Actor types, but 4 is aiming at the Butt Kicker mostly, and a bit to the Power Gamer. It completely ignores Tactician and Specialist player types.

But this seems to be the direction Bethesda is taking. If Skyrim and Fallout 4 tells us something is that Bethesda seem to focus to the Power Gamer and Butt Kicker player types, reducing the care for other roleplayer types, more and more. If that's a good thing or a bad thing it depends on what type of player you are, really.

Pen and paper / tabletop RPGs, have the additional flexibility of having a GM, which is a real person that can dynamically and instantly change the way the game plays depending on the type of players he has on the group. But a video game doesn't have that flexibility, so it seems that most developers decide and choose a certain type of players to cater to when developing a RPG game.

In my opinion the best thing would be if the games were having a more balanced focus, so as to give each player type a bit of what they enjoy.

I am these three. It's why I don't like the new perk system. It's also the reason why I don't like a character with such a shoehorned in history.

i've been spoiled by playing too much baldur's gate.

the millions of dollars they rake in and overwhelming praise for their games proves that it's wildly successful...the numbers are very much in bethesdas favor..Why would they change...just like the numbers are very much in favor of COD and AC these big time companies aren't going to change what's making them money...they will always try to follow the majority for better or worse and almost always ignore the minority...Bethesda obviously wanted a even wider audience for fo4 so what did they do...they followed the majority

I'm one of those people. I played Fallout 3 a little over 600 hours over 3 characters. Conversely I pretty much hated NV after roughly 40, bad enough to give it away for free. For all the talk of "better story" and better choices and whatnot I had zero motivation to care about who got the chip because I had strong feelings of apathy for 2 out of 3 main factions and the main reason I liked House was stuff I read on the wiki more than info the game itself taught me.

I found the desert to be a boring place too. Pretty, but boring. It was Fallout's Cyrodiil lol.

Thats me I guess.

WOW dude A+++ best explanation so far =D good job

i guess i fit any roll depend on the game =P

Yeah that was an amazing run down of the whole thing. Lot of 3,4,5 players like me are pretty bummed about being left out

But that's the way RPGs are going to go. They aren't going to cater to the 3,4,5, any more.

again...sub-par writing is part of their success?