Going into the Institute crew deep with

made me feel like [censored]. Doing the "right thing" has never felt more wrong. That's exceptional writing IMO.

yeah, lol i didnt want to go on story just to avoid spoiler but yeah that part make me feel sick at the end.

Right, but if Bethesda wrote a story base on a fixed protagonist with established gender, sixuality, personality, history, etc I can't imagine what a train wreck the fan base would be in.

I don't think Beth's writing is the apex of enlish lit. But I think they do a *decent* job considering the main character can have no definition and the story can't be forcefully paced

c'mon barden. why you acting like fallout 4 is an rpg game? it's quite obviously an action shooter with rpg elements.

I'd like more moral ambiguity. And in this game by founding settlements, why not be able to set the moral compass for others? Maybe you create a ghoul hating community, or a community where raiding raiders is common. Maybe you make a group of amazonians or MGTOWs (okay I'm loling now).

I agree so far I love the game--it's just very limiting--I can't wait to see what modders end up doing!

Guys, this is what I'm talking about when I talk about choices, taken from a steam review:

"Who wants to be an evil character anyway? Be the good guy concerned father and General of the Minutemen, don't try to kill the invincible Essential NPC's inhabited everywhere and most certainly, don't try to make any choices that could change the world surrounding you. Also you have to see the reduced dialogue options mentioned above in correlation to the possible solutions/outcomes of a quest. For that, just check out the very first quest in New Vegas and how you could solve it with the following actions:

- Quest starts with Joe Cobb (a bandit) intimidating a townsfolk for handing them over a person which they hide and that the bandits will attack the place

- Help the townsfolk:
- - Optional: Kill Joe Cobb the very first moment you see him arguing, so the Bandits will have one member less when attacking
- - Optional: Recruit several people living in the town to help you out with their presence and supplies when the bandits attack
- - - For convinving them you'll need various skills like Barter, Medicine or Speech i.e.
- - Prepare for the attack and then defend the city
- - Every of your allies who dies will stay dead
- - Don't let the bandits win, or the quest will fail
- Finally you've done it and became friends with the townsfolk and claim your reward, unfortunetly the powder ganger bandits will now shoot you on sight

Help the bandits (powder gangers):
- First, kill the person hiding in the town for the bandits
- Then you need to get some supplies for the bandits from the townsfolk
- - Optional: Convince the shopkeeper to supply the bandits with leather armor using the Barter skill
- - Optional: Obtain medical supplies from the doctor:
- - - Lie to him, buy the supplies, steal them or simply kill the doctor and take everything you want
- Proceed to occupy the town with the powder gangers and kill all residents
- Don't let Joe die, since he's the one who promised you a reward
- Finally the town will be taken over by the bandits and you claim your reward. The townsfolk stays dead and you're free to join the powder gangers by traveling to their main base

Or you could kill the bandits/townsfolk on your own in between or go the psychotic way and just kill both. Also at this point you could still betray either the town or powder gangers. Regarding the bandits for example you could just spy their main base and hand the information over to the NCR military, then you could join to exterminate these criminals.

There are even more complex solutions like defending the town but still joining the Powder gangers etc.

TL;DR = Compare the possible decisions and consequences of the first quest of New Vegas to the first Quest of F4. There's not a single decision to be made in the latter."

Well Fallout 4 enter on the category of RPS or roll playing shooter.

but it's not even that.

it that, u have RP elements and the Shooter elements. Is more Fallout enter on the category of any Action RPG.

The free of choice on a quest dont define a RPG. I have play many Action RPG where u cant go away from the already set story.

would you consider gta v to be an rpg? you can upgrade your character, customize them, and there are 3 endings you can choose from that will impact the game.

the same can be stated for saints row 3 and 4.

Not really. As someone who used to play action shooters a lot, Fallout 4 is pretty far from being one.

Fallout 4 is still primarily an RPG with shooter elements, not a shooter with RPG elements, in that the shooting is a means to an end, not the end in it and of itself. The focus of the game is not shooting, but exploration and questing.

yeah but it looks like shooting is the only means to an end in the game

It's weird because while they didn't make FNV, they supervised obsidian while developing it! How could they not see what the fans liked an disliked? Hell, even Skyrim that Bethesda DID make had more choices. You can end the war peacefully, or pick one side or the other and actually SEE the results of picking that side throughout the world!

With the civil war overhaul mod, you learn that bethesda cut out A LOT of stuff from the civil war that made it a million times more epic, to make the game still run for consoles as it took a lot of memory. But with next gen, you're telling me they couldn't try that again with better hardware now? really? I think Angry Joe's fallout 4 review is spot on. Could easily be a 7/10, but just because of how addictive it is, you bump it up to a 8/10. Lets hope Bethesda doesn't hold obsidian to a 18 month time frame to create a game this time. It's funny though, 18 month game ended up a lot better than a 7 year game LOL.

Writing for the dark brotherhood quests in oblivion was good and... yep dark brotherhood in oblivion was well done.

Considering NV was made by a different studio, I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why people thought FO4 would be like it. The game is, as expected, very similar to FO3, the only FO game Bethesda had made. I really don'tget it.

It's not,there are several instances where you can use charisma to avoid conflict. Branching quests and making decisions is hardly what defines rpg's, just an element which isn't as prevalent in action RPGs. Which is what FO4 is.

I would love to have branching quests and more traditional cRPG stuff in FO4, but it's still an rpg.

And hey, it might not be close to games like Torment or Mask of the Betrayer but at least it's better than anything Bethesda ever did earlier writing wise.

Not really. You do get pleanty of oppurtunities to talk people down, use stealh, etc. Maybe not as many as New Vegas's childish fantasy of "you can always get a good ending with a high speech score", but it still happens.

Combat is the primary means of progression in pretty much every RPG out there, so I really don't see the relevance.

To be fair on of my favorite things about fallout 1 back in the day was when I managed to do a run of the game without a single fight.

I mean, I don't expect that level of writing from bethesda. It isn't their strength but I think I'd be overjoyed if any bethesda game ever had the depth of options of solutions some other fallout games had.

They build worlds well though, like I said earlier, the microstories and background from item placement and notes and terminals is top notch. It's a confusing thing that they do.

yes and no, the game decress the choice, but for example u can solve situation w/o shooting, like that dinner where i solve the whole problem there w/o killing anyone and saving both traders.

What fallout 4 chance from 3 and NV is that they set a MQ on a path that u cant change, is a bad thing?? for some ppl yes for other no. For it was wierd that u could solve son situation on NV trow speech when really dont make senses.

I thought they took a couple of aspects from New Vegas:

-A branching main story based around siding with a faction (although, in an improvement over NV, there was an actual storyline to the main quest other than "run around recruiting allies" and there was some substantive story material before you sided with a faction, whereas in NV you basically just found Benny)

- A few unique companion characters as opposed to a bunch of cardboard cuttout companions (they also improved here with the approval system).

-A BOS that aren't a bunch of white knights.

- Morally grey factions

how is that anymore childish than a one man army killing everything?

never said it wasn't. i'm not expecting it to be a diplomatic simulator, just expecting it to give us a choice on whether we want to be a charismatic diplomat or a one man army

keep in mind i get all my generalizations from watching countless fallout 4 videos, reading the dialogue, and reading reviews

I'm actually thinking of some quests right now where I can talk and about shooting anyone.

I was confused when I read the stuff and then met with the head guy in... a place with the robots because I thought I wasn't done when I finished it by talking.

Also on there was one other place with the other robots when I wrapped up all but one of the quests using my intelligence and I solved that mission with stealth.

Maybe I should just use spoiler tags and even then if you manage to solve it without combat you miss getting all the combat experience points.

well ofcurse normaly u always get more exp from combat approach that from speak approach

Yeah that was horrible. Add to that something else i did and well its sticks with you.