It baffles me how this game can be so good and so bad.

Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:27 am

This game is like cocaine. You get a high off of it, you feel on top of the world with all the explosions and guns and cool [censored], but at some point the you crash off the high, get depressed, and see how shallow the entire experience was. Then you go back to doing it because it feels so good, but there is no emotional pay off.
The emotional pay off being meaningful, morally-gray dialogue choices with real conseequences in the Fallout world. It's that something that keeps you thinking about the story days after it's done.
This game can be divided into 4 things:
The combat thing
The building thing
The dialogue/story thing
The exploration thing
The combat thing: Great. The best it has ever been in any Fallout game. It gives the most freedom and the most reward of any Bethesda game thus far. Though I miss having my guns jam, and wish the way you interact with weapons was more immersive,as in Metro Last light.
The building game: Great, but it is it's own separate thing. Nobody buys a Fallout game for the crafting aspects. Not saying crafting doesn't belong, but it doesn't make up for the lack of role-play freedom.
The exploration thing: Cool. Doesn't really have that "first fallout" feel for me anymore because I already know the scenario, already know what super mutants and ghouls are, already know about robots, etc. Not much new is introduced on this game. Just more of the same lore. But the exploration and hidden stories are still good. No major complaints here.
The dialogue thing: Terrible. Multiple choices usually lead to the same outcome. No diplomacy. You can't unite factions or negotiate with your enemies. Quests usually narrow down to going somewhere and killing 200 people, no matter how pacific and diplomatic you tried to be. I'm not even bothered by the voiced protagonist, just by the fact that the dialogue is so unrewarding, and skill checks are gone except for the charisma skill. Branching quests only happen in small scale, like sidequests. I don't even have to describe what a good Fallout story and dialogue should be. It has already been done. It's called Fallout: New Vegas. And let me just add that I don't think F:NV is a perfect game at all, and I'm not an Obsidian really devoted fan. But I think NV did story was what an RPG story should be: Full of choices, cool characters, and style. Not a few chocies that funnel down to basically the same thing, like in F4.
Bethesda has no eye for subtlety, their writing is terrible. Kellogs backstory for example, is riddled with cliches and ends with a "I may have done bad things, but I'm still human."
Just let that line sink in for a moment. The reason why you have a story AT ALL, is to SHOW you that although his run-of-the-mill story is full of violence, he still somewhat had a heart. You get that? SHOW. By TELLING the audience that freaking line at the end you just destroyed any subtlety and basically called your audience idiots. Anybody who has had even a high-school level of creative writing knows this. How can we still get this crap? And this is after people have been complaining about their writing for years and years. They still dont get it. Another example is how Todd Howard said the ending of Fallout 3 was inspired by Red Dead Redemption on an interview. Except that they missed the point, they missed WHY that ending was impactful and settled for the protagonist dying in the end thinking THAT ought to do it, THAT ought to re-create the feeling people had at the end of RDR.
If baffles me how a company of their level can't hire a descent writer for their games. It's inconceivable at this point. Unacceptable. This is not just another rant by a random opinionated anon on the internet, people have been complaining about the same thing for the past 10 years. It has been a consensus, both from professional critics and their players alike that their writing is mediocre at best. And yet, they STILL haven't fixed it.
It hurts because the premise is good. A misterious institute that snaches people in the night and substitutes them with robots. The brotherhood of steel who is still doing their thing, you know how they are. A group of settlers uniting under the minuteman to survive the harsh wasteland. The railroad, a group of synths who achieved human level of consciousness and fight to free all the other synths from the institute while being conflicted about what makes a synth worth saving and what doesn't. But it all comes crashing down when you realize no matter what choices you make, the wasteland is still more less the same. And no matter how many times you play, you always play as more less the same character.
Their fanbase has been saying all I've said for the past 10 years. Why can't they just listen? They have the money and resources to deliver the "dream game," the one that you can have cool explosions, huge world, voiced characters, AND a world that changes depending on how you play. They can totally, 100% do it. Why do they insist on writing [censored] dialogue and limiting the players freedom in regards to role-play? Just think about this, they can hire WHOEVER THEY WANT in the entire world. Thats how big this company has grown. And still, we get writing that looks amateurish. Their story lack choices. The game is kinda [censored]-up in all kinds of little ways, like characters running into walls, the weird way characters move their heads when they talk to you, graphical inconsistencies, etc. I wish they'd just sit down one day and say "We are going to get everything our fans love about our games and deliver a masterpiece." Which basically means, "Lets do exactly what we have been doing, but this time lets take roleplaying seriously."
And please, don't list all the "choices" we have. Todd is always talks how the only thing that matter in games is how it makes you FEEL like. Even if we talk about the particulars, what systems were removed or added, what choices we have, etc; I still don't FEEL like I have the freedom to be whoever I want to be. And I know I'm not alone in this.
By the way, this rant comes from a place of love. I write all this because I love their games. But they always leave so much to be desired. C'mon bethesda, just let me roleplay. Please.
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Hearts
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:38 am

agree

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Nadia Nad
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:38 am

+1

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Jonathan Windmon
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:40 pm

I like the dialogue, its such an advance on NV and flows so much better. Of course it can only be compared to Beth's last game, Skyrim, and its vast improvement over that as well.

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Julie Ann
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:47 pm

My only problem with the dialogue is that you don't know what you're going to say, and in some cases it's nothing like what the prompt suggested it would be.

Without spoiling anything, during one of the main quests you can pick "Sarcastic". You say: "You want to try it, huh? I'll kill you again!" What the hell... that's not sarcasctic, that's just aggressive.

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Kieren Thomson
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:49 pm

*shrugs* I find there writing to be good.
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Damned_Queen
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:50 am

Well, "writing" covers a wide variety of things. Not all aspects of story and dialogue were bad. But it often devolved into cliches and did not allow for role-play, which is it's worst crime.

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Lizzie
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:24 pm

I really have no issues with it.
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Charity Hughes
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:03 pm

I agree, the game's pretty shallow. Maybe I've been spoiled by the Witcher, but no open world game has quite matched that experience. I find my biggest issues are all the distractions and the constant need to run back and forth between settlements and quests. It leaves a lot to be desired. Still fun and I put good 8 hours in every few days.

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Prisca Lacour
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:18 pm

4 is like... It's like that one thing that you love to hate and hate to love.

But the mods will come. Then we'll love it again. And hate the mods for their flaws which can be combined with other mods which will make us love it all, even though we hate it all.

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nath
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:09 am

Alas they do half-ass everything but the world and graphical design :shrug:
And it seems they have now started quarter-assing those other aspects :P
Positively though, they only three-quarters-assed the gameplay mechanics :teehee:

Whoa, too much ass for a single post :blush:


Skyrim was like that for me. This one though i have more positive feelings towards :shrug:
But i'm a freak who plays games for their game play, and story is like a story in porm: excuse for the action that i don't pay too much attention to :teehee:

The story, i mean, is the one i don't pay much attention :hehe:
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Sakura Haruno
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:22 am

Yep.

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Dalton Greynolds
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:22 am

1st bit is spot on. I'm so excited then I play and the feeling of man I'm wasting my time comes and goes. Not sure if i really want more meaningful dialogue choices. I like to make the choice to get the stuff but i hate to miss out on anything. Most things it doesn't appear to matter but if it did matter then there's no choice it's just you not knowing which response gets the treats.

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Jose ordaz
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:06 am

I want complex, amoral, "dark" fantasy bull$#!+ in my entertainment like I want another hole drilled into my head...with a hand auger.

The story is just fine for me, and voice acting is way better than expected. The dialogue wheel gets the job done, and some speech checks are a real b!+C# to pass.

No thanks OP on the "The dialogue/story thing."
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I’m my own
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:00 pm

Hard to say the game has no branching paths when pretty much the entire third act is open-ended.

I felt like I was making choices that had an impact on the world. I wiped out two whole factions, built dozens of settlements, and killed the Mayor of Diamond City, among other things. And I didn't have to do any of that.
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Maria Leon
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:00 am

I find it weird how you find good writing in minor world building stuff and bad writing in the game and no attention to creating a theme.

Cambridge polymer labs makes a good example about that. You read all the terminals and get one side then go into an office and get more of the whole story and it creates a lot for the world outside and is well written but then you get back to your quests and the writing svcks again. It's almost like all the good writers had to hide their work.

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Catherine N
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:14 pm

like any other post about dialogue is just a opinion, u maybe dont like it but there are other ppl that actually like it, and dont have problem roleplaying it.

This is something that really bother me bc u cant do something doesnt mean is bad. I have 0 problem roll playing on Fo4 at the moment.

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sara OMAR
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:16 am

What are you talking about? Fallout 4 already is "dark, amoral fantasy." It can't get much darker than some stuff in Fallout 4. The point isn't being dark, is having choices that allows me to roleplay. You say the dialogue wheel "gets the job done." But what job? Did you play previous Fallouts?

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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:36 pm

see i got the opposite feeling, i try really hard but i didnt care much about Witcher 3 story, i was trying to fallow the whole plot but it was like i dont really care about finding Ciri a character that i learn about for the first 5m of the tutorial.

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[Bounty][Ben]
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:11 am

Right? All their games have this problem. You stumble into good writing by chance, but the main quests are usually a let down.

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abi
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:08 pm

Pretty good conclusion.
I like. :)

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Victor Oropeza
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:56 am

The writing and voice acting is quite good actually. Much better than anything Bethesda has done previously. So yeah the story is still stuck with me one week after beating the game. I say kudos to the story and choices that i had to make to get my ending.

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Kyra
 
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Post » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:53 am

I don't totally hate the dialogue. I like the voiced protagonist and I don't mind the fact that the lines are shortened down. I'm disappointed because the dialogue wheel doesn't give you any real choice. This might not seem like a big deal if this is your first Bethesda game, but people who like RPGs and have been playing them for a long time know that branching paths are much more rewarding in this type of game.

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Jessica Nash
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:59 pm


Saw no real issue with role-playing either, only "crime" I see is its attempts at being different, and for some that's a bad thing *shrugs*
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Heather Dawson
 
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Post » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:30 pm

ohh no i understand, i been playing Bethesda game since morrowind, and im dislike the little choice we get from dialogues, most the Charisma check that i have 0 clue still how they work.

What i mean is is the good quality of it is just a opinion, some ppl like the quality of the story and other dont. Like i really like the whole main plot of the story alot more that the plot of 3 or NV. And the dialogue quality for me is fine nothing mind blow but i never expect that for game.

Like u said u have issues to rollplay as u want. I have 2 PC right now one that is a serious [censored] killing everyone that it can to speed his way to his gold and a knight on shinny armor. i can roll play both dudes just

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Queen
 
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