Even better, since we can dual wield shields, why not lockpicks? Epic vault-cracking skill by simultaneously opening both super locks at the same time!!! svck it, Gray Fox!

What's next? Double torches, for super dungeon-illuminating gameplay action?!

Bethesda, you know what to do....



And now my thread has officially degenerated into a conversation between you and me, and now jokes about dual wielding any object. Sigh.....it never even got to 3 pages.

-Increased health can be chosen at level up (instead of magicak or stamina)
-Perks in Armor/Heavy Armor will likely improve the damage reduction of attacks
-Extra stamina can be taken at level up
-While this would be nice, the bashing of locks should come with a downside (items breaking, guard hearing you, etc.)


-Using your Archtypes, mages won't be wearing any armor, so a moot point
-Mages will likely take Magicka boots at level up instead of stamina
-Magic may be able to give you high skill values (like in Oblivion), but they likely won't give you any of the perks from those skills


-Already mentioned that daggers can get up to 10X sneak damage, and bows do more damage (Todd killed a bandit from the shadows with one arrow)
-Archery is in the "Thief" archtype, so none of the other archtypes can use it
-Again, stamina, health, and magicka are chosen at level up
-The only other one who can do those things are mages, and that is only as long as they have magicka
-Since his only option for doing damage is the bow (augmented with poisons), and since bows shoot much slower and badkpeddling speed has been reduced, archery is no longer a viable fighting technique at close range

It sounds like the things that you want are already in the game.

Idk about you... But I wanna double fist some good ol' Mead =D or, instead of torches, dual lanterns! Yess and don't feel bad, ice only had one topic ice created break 100 posts lol. Besides, there are a few responses peppered in that are from forum goers other than you and I haha. You may get to three pages yet look =P

D.P. My bad... Lets just go with... I'm doing my part to get to three pages Hahaha

Block is a skill and it can effect two things: Melee Damage Mitigation (Blocking in melee is not binary: Will you get hurt if you stand in front of a freight train with a shield up?), block reaction time, and block accuracy.

Hopefully blocking will completely mitigate ranged damage at all levels, so Melee characters don't have to cry when they can't reach the enemies peppering them with arrows.

Also, another advantage in favor of warriors: They can cover the most ground in the least amount of time (There's a reason Athletics is a combat, not stealth, skill). Sure, a thief is more agile, and can get places a warrior can't, and can sidestep blows like a gnat, but the Warrior has the fastest ground-speed.

Armor could be a skill with numerous perks available, from mitigating drawbacks of the armor, to adding unique abilities. For example, a heavy armor perk (Lets call it "Bastion of Defense") that increases damage resistance and attack speed when walking or standing still, and perks that reduce the speed and agility penalties of armor (Armor Optimization).

I also agree lock-bashing needs to be implemented (Perhaps as a two-handed weapon perk?), though it should not be an outright replacement for Security/lockpicking.

Magic will always have the capacity to outperform the other archetypes if it wants to remain viable, but it's tradeoff is the amount of micromanaging in combat, and the preparation time to achieve such status.

Hopefully, stamina and movement in combat will be fixed this time around. In Oblivion and Morrowind, it drained so stupidly quickly I had to disable it to keep the mages from outlasting my warrior in combat (THey'd still be slinging spells when my fatigue was bottomed out). It wasn't the attacks, though, but the ridiculous tax moving around put on stamina. The combat system failed to accomodate for the manner in which fighters will conserve momentum in their footwork when moving in combat (it's actually easier to move quickly over short distances (5-10 ft at a time in any direction) in combat than to walk, because of the build-up of momentum), and the ridiculously tiny steps people take when "walking" in battle.

Most posts that talk about balance between Warrior/Mage/Thief are by players that are in this mindset.

The Warrior/Mage/Thief in Elderscrolls are just the way that the skills are type casted as to give players an idea of their usefulness.

But as in real life someone who is a warrior and takes no interest in lockpicking or magic should not be able to open a locked chest. its that simple.

Rarther than adding/changing skills to balance this it should actually be a game mechanic that changes. Such as the lock levels of chests are tied into strength and skill with a weapon larger than a dagger and this when hit would smash the chest with a 20% chance of damaging its contents.

For some of the other balances mentioned, Yes a mage can sneak as well as a thief. But If I want to play a true pure mage, why would I train the sneak skill, I would use illusion magic instead.

To play a 'True' anything in TES games you need to have some willpower, and also expect to 'not' see all elements of the game in one playthrough, it is not a balance issues.

The magic system in ob was VERY rushed and buggy. Its clear they learned thier lesson the hard way and this time they started on magic very early.

The balance....

Mages we know from what todd said are considered more offense oriented then warriors or rogues... This seems to imply they have changed alot of stuff from how ob did it as mages there were mostly defense oriented..

Thanks for the morale boost, buddy. :goodjob: I was really dying over here. And yes, your literal interpretation of my examples is spot on. Do I actually expect a Thief to use only a bow? No, not really. The balance discussion is for the sake of the skillsets in each constellation, not directly about the actual build an individual will play.



Lolz, I've had a few posts max out, so it's not a problem. I just think it's funny that people would rather talk about seeing an old picture of a walrus than the actual fundamentals of the gameplay and how to improve it.



You made some good points, aside from the randomness of suggesting a battle with a freight train.....you do realize how blocking with a shield works in real life combat, right? If you stop and think about it, and then compare that to the contrived, arcadey version of blocking to stop an attack from damaging h you as much that's present in TES games, then you'll get why it needs to be more realistic. I get the idea if you're blocking with your hands, but that is entirely different from blocking with a shield, which is also entirely different from parrying with a weapon.



The balance issue is with the general archetypes, not the exact builds different people might have. It's the fact that a TES game should always allow you to experience a "master" level character who can overcome any obstacle, no matter what archetype or mixed build you use.

And for reiterating my example for lock bashing, thanks, I guess...and as for mages, the only way they can "sneak" is not by sneaking at all, but by simply using the right spells in the Sneak mode. Will that inadvertently raise that skill? Yes. So based on being a pure mage skillset build, then I made a mistake, because then by that rule, a Mage couldn't wear armor or sneak. Hence the balance there. A mage loses out on those benefits, but gains the awesome powers of magic at range and in close quarters.

im more interested in balancing them by the gear they wear. armor should be so heavy that you can only carry a couple of set of it at most and i you do you severely limit your ability to loot. heavy armor should provide alot more protection than light armor...........and i mean alot not just a few percentage points. teh downside to wearing heavy armor is that it should have a severe cost on you casting as in a spell that one hit killed x creature before would only do half or less damage. heavy armor should also have a severe negative affect on sneaking as well. this lets robes and light armor or just plain clothes be a viable option for those who want to cast spells or just sneaky around all the time. heavy armor should also reduce the amount of time you can sprint......not a lot but just enough to be a bit noticable.

the upside to heavy armor is that because its thicker and usually made of sturdier materials than light armor it obviously affords much more physical damage and i dont see why it wouldnt afford alot more magical damage as well since the spell has to burn through or freeze more material than in light armor. i would think that heavy armor would be a bit more enchantable as well.

as for what weapons you use vs magicka or stealth thats easy. using heavy weapons, shooting bows and casting powerful spells should all drain stamina. you could choose to shoot off some arrows and then cast mighty fireball o doom at something but after you do those two things you wont have enough stamina left over to use your big warhammer.........your to tired. you could to all three of them if you want but you would have to shoot your bow, fire a weaker version of a fireball and then you would use a sword or one handed axe instead of a daikatana or a warhammer. this prevents the all powerful battlemage syndrome we had in oblivion where the best character was always the same a heavy armored battlemage.