[Your Mum]

Here's a question I'd like answered please! Anybody using Better Imperial City (or part of it) - do you ever get rain, cloud, fog, any other weather added by a weather mod, in the Imperial City when in a district edited by Better Cities (not counting the Waterfront)?

[Marcus Jordan]

Here's a question I'd like answered please! Anybody using Better Imperial City (or part of it) - do you ever get rain, cloud, fog, any other weather added by a weather mod, in the Imperial City when in a district edited by Better Cities (not counting the Waterfront)?

I get rain all the time, but that could also be vanilla weather. I'll have to check which Weather mod I use, but I'm sure it does alter vanilla a little.

[lillian luna]

I get rain,fog, clouds and sun in the Imperial City Districts, and I use All Natural, and the complete Better Imperial City.

That said, I get instances of different weather types as I cross the districts (example, raining in Elven Gardens, Foggy in Talos Plaza, rainy in the Temple district). Maybe it's an issue with kuertee's auto save and time mod that alters timescale dynamically, or some interaction with AN, I don't know.

[Natalie J Webster]

The question was to know if we didn't set the weather to be always the same as we changed the IC of worldspace, but you just confirmed that it works just like in vanilla. So the weather doesn't care of the worldspace. Or at least it gets a default weather (to be investigated).

[Gen Daley]

I might have missed it in the readme but if I use Open Cities Reborn do I use both of these?

Better Cities - Open Cities Reborn.esp
Better Cities - Open Better Cities.esp

I have them both installed through BAIN and everything seems ok. No noob ground signs in the IC. Just don't want to screw up the installation too bad. Cyrodiil looks fantastic.

I do have one small problem with NPC's with no greetings that have been modified by http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=18442. Since that doesn't add any interfering cells that I can think of do you think I should load muggervamp.esp & muggervampinvisbed.esp after the BC .esps?

Edit: Was a glitch with my vampirism. Had nothing to do with either mod. Got it all sorted out now I believe.

[Yonah]

I get rain all the time, but that could also be vanilla weather. I'll have to check which Weather mod I use, but I'm sure it does alter vanilla a little.

I get rain,fog, clouds and sun in the Imperial City Districts, and I use All Natural, and the complete Better Imperial City.

That said, I get instances of different weather types as I cross the districts (example, raining in Elven Gardens, Foggy in Talos Plaza, rainy in the Temple district). Maybe it's an issue with kuertee's auto save and time mod that alters timescale dynamically, or some interaction with AN, I don't know.

Thanks both, you have reassured me. I suddenly became worried that BC might have caused weather to be permanently clear & sunny (except at night when it would be clear and moony). Good to know you get other weather types.

I might have missed it in the readme but if I use Open Cities Reborn do I use both of these?

Better Cities - Open Cities Reborn.esp
Better Cities - Open Better Cities.esp

I have them both installed through BAIN and everything seems ok. No noob ground signs in the IC. Just don't want to screw up the installation too bad. Cyrodiil looks fantastic.

Don't use the OBC plugin with OCR, doing so would create a mess.

[Lou]

Glad to be of service considering the service you provide to the community.

[Nicole Kraus]

Thanks both, you have reassured me. I suddenly became worried that BC might have caused weather to be permanently clear & sunny (except at night when it would be clear and moony). Good to know you get other weather types.

I forgot to mention that I am still on v 5.12 at the moment, in case you were wondering about the latest version of BC.

[Hussnein Amin]

I forgot to mention that I am still on v 5.12 at the moment, in case you were wondering about the latest version of BC.

Thanks but no, if my worries were correct (thankfully they're not) then it would have been this way since v3.3.1 when we first created the Tamriel2 worldspace to act as parent for the IC districts.

[Rinceoir]

Vorians, is there a Testing Hall for Better Cities? I just found one for Oblivifall (simplifying my life there dramatically), and was wondering if you guys had made one for Better Cities. I looked through the ESM in TES4Edit and couldn't find anything, but I figured I'd ask.

[+++CAZZY]

Yep there is. We do not use light bulb but real flame for Better Cities. And the flames are in the lamp post. The problem being that they do not give enough light if I use only one flame so I intensified the light with a second flame. It is all done on purpose and won't change. Most people have FPS issues during the day and not the night... (I mean the flames are not even active during the day).

Could you not just create a new light which used the large torch nif?

[Logan Greenwood]

Don't use the OBC plugin with OCR, doing so would create a mess.

Ok. Thanks for the heads up. One more question. Is it alright to use the No Flooding of Leyawiin .esp file with BC-OCR or will that cause problems as well? I'm so glad I finally got around to installing both BC and OCR at the same time. The cities are looking phenomenal now and I have a bunch more potential victims I mean allies in the world.

Thanks everyone who works on this.

[djimi]

Ok. Thanks for the heads up. One more question. Is it alright to use the No Flooding of Leyawiin .esp file with BC-OCR or will that cause problems as well? I'm so glad I finally got around to installing both BC and OCR at the same time. The cities are looking phenomenal now and I have a bunch more potential victims I mean allies in the world.

Thanks everyone who works on this.

I may be wrong but the patch for OCR build Better Cities around OCR thus it adds to OCR the new buildings from BC. It is still the layout of OCR so it should had no flood at all making that esp incompatible. So I would not advise to use it. Now I may be wrong but you can always check in game and Vorians may provide a better answer later on.

[Epul Kedah]

Vorians, is there a Testing Hall for Better Cities? I just found one for Oblivifall (simplifying my life there dramatically), and was wondering if you guys had made one for Better Cities. I looked through the ESM in TES4Edit and couldn't find anything, but I figured I'd ask.

No, there's no such thing for BC. What would be the purpose of it? I've never actually visited the testing hall in the original game, so I don't know exactly what it is nor what it would do.

Could you not just create a new light which used the large torch nif?

We didn't even know that this mod exists which Dubiousness linked to, editing the BC IC lighting (and making other changes too). It's really a pity we weren't told a long time ago when it was first created, as there was really no need for a separate ESP to have been released, we can integrate these edits directly into BC itself now that we know about them and can see that the changes work (providing the amount of lighting needed without doubling up the flames).

Ok. Thanks for the heads up. One more question. Is it alright to use the No Flooding of Leyawiin .esp file with BC-OCR or will that cause problems as well? I'm so glad I finally got around to installing both BC and OCR at the same time. The cities are looking phenomenal now and I have a bunch more potential victims I mean allies in the world.

Thanks everyone who works on this.

As Ismelda said, you don't need the Leyawiin No Flooding ESP with OCR. BC for OCR adds BC buildings which have interiors into the OCR city layout. None of the clutter, plants, rocks or water edits are included in the city exteriors, just the buildings, their interiors, and the NPCs from BC (which means the quests can be played).

[Gaelle Courant]

Congratulations and many thanks to the BC team (Ismelda, Vorians, and others) for creating such an awesome quest mod, especially with integration to other mods. This is what excellent modding is all about - it is so good, that one forgets that it is a mod!

Love the small quest in Chorrol in the Twin goblets Alehouse, especially with the tie-in to Lost Spires? Wow! When was his added, and will that quest be continued? Also love how th cut-scenes are added for Who's the Daddy?

PS: Small issue in Chorrol near the north-east tower as shown on the map here: http://bildr.no/view/1116237
There is a gap in the walls as shown here: http://bildr.no/view/1116238

[Carlitos Avila]

Yay, someone liked the Who's The Daddy? quest! Thanks so much for commenting on that one and the other Chorrol quest. Both these quests were added in version 5.0.0, so somewhere around July 2011. The incomplete quest will hopefully be continued at some point, I have a tendency to get distracted by some other part of Better Cities needing my attention and so sometimes start something and then don't finish it for a while.

Judging from your screenshot, you're in the closed worldspace. That gap in the walls around Chorrol is not caused by Better Cities, something else in your load order has created it as with just BC there is no gap, and I know what it is! The UOP. In the vanilla game there's a slightly smaller gap in the wall at this location, Better Cities fixes this gap by slightly moving the small section of wall which touches the tower (the left piece in your screenshot). The UOP gets a bit carried away and repositions the entire stretch of wall all the way from this tower east, south, and west until it meets the south-west tower on the other side of the castle. And since BC loads after the UOP our edit to the one small section of wall overrides the UOP's edit to that same section of wall, so while the rest of the wall is UOP-moved, that section is not, recreating the gap we each separately fixed. Bummer, but that's the way of mod conflicts.

[Sophh]

Vorians, - you deserve thanks for these wonderful series of quests. I haven't been to Chorrol in a while, and was pleasantly surprised to find new BC quests, and they have been in place for more than 8 months?? This game is just too large - frankly neverending! I am surprised these haven't got more mentions, possibly because people haven't discovered these quests, perhaps because haven't been to the Twin Goblets Alehouse??

I really like how you've made the Who's the Daddy? quest refer to the archaelogy guild from Lost Spires - I hope I am correct in that thinking? Do you use a OBSE function to determine if Lost Spires is loaded for that quest? Splendid stuff! Also am amazed by how you've made Elena Baeuchamp show the lil' bun in the oven (she looks pregnant!). I still have to play the quest till the end as I am still in Chorrol, but I am looking forward to it.

I would really like to see a completion to the Gate to Darkness quest - I ventrured briefly beyond the gate, and was amazed by the atmosphere, as well as the eternally cursed souls who would vanish as I drew nearer.

What you've done with the available tools makes it awesome! Bethesda should get a clue from modders ingenuity!

PS: Thanks for looking in to the small wall gap. It is so minor, and considering that I'd never see that corner again, I would not try to find a solution.

[Charles Weber]

The pregnant effect comes from Russader's http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=19815, and I am quite shocked to discover I missed his name from the credits document, so I'd better correct that now. The quest Who's The Daddy? (WTD) refers to the archaeology guild whether you have Lost Spires active or not - it makes no difference, as far as I'm concerned this guild exists in Cyrodiil, even for players who don't know it exists (there's also a reference to the guild in the IC Market District on a notice).

The other Chorrol (incomplete) quest, Gate Into a Dark History refers to the archaeology guild as well. If you are using our compatibility patch for The Lost Spires (it conflicts with BC Cheydinhal and BC Leyawiin), then this patch modifies the quest to send you to the guild house from The Lost Spires, to talk to an NPC from that mod. If you are not using our compatibility patch, then the NPC we add from the guild (the one in our ale house) handles the dialogue which would be spoken in the guild house. So it's simply that the BC Lost Spires compatibility patch overrides a section of the quest if used.

A small part of why I stopped working on the Dark History quest and moved to something else was the lack of certain meshes I wanted. Strotis recently released some Ayleid furniture meshes which might help me out there, although the textures won't suit for this darker Ayleid ruin. Well I'm not going to think about that for now, I don't want to distract myself too much from the Rangers Guild at the moment.

I don't think you've played the Barn von Zarov quests in Skingrad yet, you should enjoy those too, I hope.

[Erich Lendermon]

Heh. You guys are probably sick of me by now but I have got a problem with Bruma. As you can see the http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a160/MrDarkSim/tes4/c23fd10f.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a160/MrDarkSim/tes4/f4cd5d76.jpgis floating.

Refscope says that the floating parts are from Open Cities Reborn. There are two houses on the one side that are added by BC-OCR that look to intefere. I don't have anything else that adds to Bruma except A Brotherhood Renewed and Bruma Mages Guild Restored by Arthmoor but they edit interior cells so they should be cool. Better Cities is the only mod I added recently so I think I screwed up which esps I have activated.

This is the list of all esps I have affecting Bruma and the order that Boss put them in. Rest of the mods I have are armor/house/anim/vampire/companion mods that have nothing to do with Bruma.

Open Cities Resources.esm
Better Cities Resources.esm
Better Cities .esp
OC+COBL Luggage Patch.esp
BrotherhoodRenewed.esp
OCR + Kvatch Rebuilt Patch.esp
BrumaGuildReconstructed.esp
OCC-KOTN-Patch.esp
Open Cities New Sheoth.esp
Open Cities Outer Districts.esp
Open Cities Reborn.esp
Better Cities - Open Cities Reborn.esp
OCC-COBL-Wells.esp
Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp
Better Imperial City.esp
Better Cities - Knights of the Nine.esp
Better Cities - COBL.esp

Anyone see what could be causing the floating castle?

[Krystal Wilson]

Heh. You guys are probably sick of me by now but I have got a problem with Bruma. As you can see the http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a160/MrDarkSim/tes4/c23fd10f.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a160/MrDarkSim/tes4/f4cd5d76.jpgis floating.

Refscope says that the floating parts are from Open Cities Reborn. There are two houses on the one side that are added by BC-OCR that look to intefere. I don't have anything else that adds to Bruma except A Brotherhood Renewed and Bruma Mages Guild Restored by Arthmoor but they edit interior cells so they should be cool. Better Cities is the only mod I added recently so I think I screwed up which esps I have activated.

This is the list of all esps I have affecting Bruma and the order that Boss put them in. Rest of the mods I have are armor/house/anim/vampire/companion mods that have nothing to do with Bruma.

Open Cities Resources.esm
Better Cities Resources.esm
Better Cities .esp
OC+COBL Luggage Patch.esp
BrotherhoodRenewed.esp
OCR + Kvatch Rebuilt Patch.esp
BrumaGuildReconstructed.esp
OCC-KOTN-Patch.esp
Open Cities New Sheoth.esp
Open Cities Outer Districts.esp
Open Cities Reborn.esp
Better Cities - Open Cities Reborn.esp
OCC-COBL-Wells.esp
Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp
Better Imperial City.esp
Better Cities - Knights of the Nine.esp
Better Cities - COBL.esp

Anyone see what could be causing the floating castle?

Well this one is easy, you're using Open Cities Reborn, and your load order shows that you are not using Better Cities Full or Better Cities Full B&M, thus it is nothing to do with BC as you're not using BC for Bruma (and BC OCR doesn't cause that - it would be a really pointless compatibility patch if it did something like that).

Your floating castle is being caused by one of the mods you didn't list most likely if you're certain that none of the ones you did list is the cause. Just because a mod description does not say "this edits Bruma" that does not mean that the mod does not edit Bruma. It simply means the author did not tell you it edits Bruma, and that maybe it does and maybe the author doesn't even realise it does. Since OCR reshapes the land height to suit the changed city layout, you must have something loading after the OCR ESP which is conflicting. Try moving whatever you didn't list which is loadnig after OCR to load before OCR and see if that resolves. However whatever mod has made that change may require the land height to be as you're seeing it, in which case that mod simply won't be compatible with OCR anyway and will need removing from your game.

Separate from your floating castle issue, you probably don't need "Better Cities - Knights of the Nine.esp". You'll need to check the "What Does Each File Do.rtf" file from the BC main archive, but I'm fairly sure that patch is ONLY to be used if you have BC Anvil installed, which you don't. Stick with the OCR one which you also have in your load order.

[sharon]

These are the only things loaded after. I checked these all out before I posted. :
Initial Glow Mod
Life Detect color change mod
Interior Room added to Rosethorn Hall (Self Made)
Texture path change mod for Crimson Scar Armor (Self Made)
Book Mod (Self made can only be added by console)
A mod that adds 2 spells (Self Made Can only be added by console)
Face and Race change to a NPC in Skingrad (Self Made)
2 Armor mods that add female versions (Emperor Robe and Zealot Robe)
Bashed Patch

I will try getting rid of the KoTN patch and COBL patch. I'll report back and see if that helps any.
Edit: Removing those two mods did not help.

Edit2: I looked at the OCR file again and saw this in the Readme:
Open Cities Reborn v1.1.2
-------------------------

* Cheydinhal, Chorrol: Tweaked the main road to indicate the path the Imperial road takes through the cities.
* Bruma: The castle complex has been upgraded to address a strategic weakness in the previous design.
* Syncronized necessary fixes from the UOP 3.4.0 update.

That update was November 11, 2011. When I downloaded your .031 bc ocr version uploaded on 12-28-2011 the .esp file inside is tagged as .030 in the description field. Could it be that the older file was uploaded by mistake and that would cause this floating castle deal?

[Tom]

No, it sounds more like this OCR Bruma castle complex upgrade is something I wasn't made aware of. So it turns out it is (most likely) the BC OCR patch causing it after all, and you're just the first person to notice. Must remember to glare at Arthmoor's profile page for not telling me about this.

Thanks for noticing that changelog entry and telling me about it I'll have to redo BC OCR for Bruma at some point. BTW you probably want to keep the BC Cobl integration patch with OCR.

[Katy Hogben]

Yep, I guess I forgot to make someone more aware of that, but that's what's causing it. A few people pointed out that the previous castle in Bruma was not strategically sound the way I had it, and that's 90% of the point of why OCR was done. It wasn't something I relished doing because it's bound to backfire elsewhere too, but so far nobody has said anything, other than now.

[Nomee]

You all have a lot on your plate. I wouldn't be able to keep track of a quarter the stuff you guys do so I can see why it would happen. I'm probably the only one that caught because everyone else is too busy playing and modding Skyrim. Not as many people running around updating for Oblivion let alone trying to get crazy and install a bunch of city changers mid-game. Just glad it's all sorted out.

[Darrell Fawcett]

Finally got to finish the Baron's quest line, but unfortunately encountered a consistent CTD right at the end. Whenever I tried to fight (or rather wait to be asked to help in the final fight) it would CTD in the second cut-scene (when one of the guards comes back out). Tried the different dialogue options in the earlier dialogue, slightly different times of day, with or without companion, but it would always CTD during (or maybe at the end of) that guard's (silent) speech. In the end I just went off on a different quest until I got the pop-up letting me know this stage was finished - my playtime is quite limited during the week so I decided to leave the bugfixing until the weekend. Unfortunately I have accidentally deleted the save I made just before the cutscenes, so I cannot help you track it down (nor can I test my character in that final fight).
I thought I should mention it anyway, in case you spot something obvious, but then maybe it is all due to me consoling myself ahead when I had the earlier bug.
Many Thanks for the quest, I really enjoyed it and indeed the other quests I have come across so far.