[Relz]Bananasplit's Better Cities - Thread 33 : IV

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:03 am

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1067818-relzbananasplits-better-cities/

"This is a translation of Bananasplit's awesome Better Cities mod, which aims at making all the cities in the game more beautiful.
All credit goes to Bananasplit for the creation of his mod, I merely translated some names and the new Guide to Skingrad."
SATU

As you know we took over the job started by Satu with Skingrad and Bravil. The following cities from Bananasplit's Better Cities were also translated:
- Imperial City Market
- Chorrol
- Anvil
- Leyawiin
Then we added Reckless' Better City Cheydinhal, Wolfslady's Better City Bruma & Better Arboretum, SilentResident's ImpeREAL, jf2ln Anvil Bay and Bravil Dock and finally OnWard Softworks (aka TheXanadu & TheLastVoice) 's Leyawiin Port.

All these files are in the same pack in http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513.
Expect new Patches/Fixes/Enhancements every Now and Then

Find the http://www.scharesoft.de/joomla/forum/showthread.php?t=18464.
Find the http://tesall.ru/files/oblivion/betcities/.

_______________________________________________________
Technical Features:
Unique range of formID for each City/district:
Allow the merging of the esp while using TES4Gecko to never change any formID and thus banishing forever the need of clean saves between different version (started on version 4.3.0). This step was needed because of the Modularity of the mod. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
Modularity:
Each city and each IC District is offered in two ways: as a separate ESP on its own, or as part of two merged Full ESPs. This allows users to pick and choose which cities/Districts to use, so if they don't like one they can choose not to use it, or if a city or District conflicts with another mod they use, they can choose not to use it. Yet if you do want to use all cities, there's a single ESP for all, and if you want all IC Districts, there's a single ESP for all, which helps reduce the number of active ESPs in your load order if you do want every city and every District. We expand this concept into the City Defences ESPs - separate ESPs for each city, or a single Full ESP for all of them. And then again with the FPS patch ESPs as well! [Tool used: Brains!!!]
Unique worldspace in the Imperial City:
Allow to have a separate Map for the Imperial City and also to banish any conflict with any mod dealing with the Imperial Isle (Unique Landscape Imperial Isle and others) as the districts do not share their landscape edition with the Imperial Isle anymore. The drawback is that the Better Imperial City needs to be loaded last (or so) in your load order to ensure that no mod is resetting the IC to its initial worldspace. You also can't fast travel outside the city (Speed is Limited!) but you need to get out of the IC to be able to fast travel to other places outside the IC. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
Way of dealing with Doors:
We replace the doors by BC version of the same doors when we have to move them from their vanilla position. The vanilla doors are disabled and made non persistent so that their state wont be kept in your saved game and if you remove Better Cities, the vanilla doors will automatically be back at their right place without any issue. [Tool used: Brains!!!]
Customization:
Nearly each city/district has its own customization based on the users preferences on gore, FPS issue and compatibility with other mods. The customization comes in 2 different way: In Game Menu for those who use OBSE (which is recommended also to use Streamline and lower the FPS hit of Better Cities) and Manual where the user needs to enter some console commands to achieve the customization desired. [Tool used: OBSE and Brains]
BAIN & Scripted Installation:
The installation which comes in 3 archives (Mains files with the esp/esm, Main resources with the bsa archives and Update to the Resources if and when needed) is all scripted to facilitate an omod installation with Oblivion Mod Manager. In the same way, the archives are packaged to allow an easy BAIN Installation when Using Wrye Bash. [Tool Used: OBMM and Wrye Bash]
Cleaned ESP:
All our plugins are cleaned with TES4Edit to limit the conflicts with Oblivion Vanilla and Other mods. Of course this doesn't mean that others mods wont conflict with Better Cities but just that we took extreme precautions to limit those conflict as much as we could. Before reporting any conflict, make sure that Better Cities is loaded after the mod you think is conflicting. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
PiFFYed Meshes:
All our meshes are PyFFIed and further stripped of useless data to ensure an optimum performance in game. [Tool used: PyFFI]
BSA Archives:
All the main resources are then packaged into BSA archives (when this is possible) to allow an easy install/uninstall. The BSA are separated into different categories for customization purposes (B&M or vanilla Bravil textures for instance) and translation purposes (English Names on Textures and English Dialogs which can be replaced by their translated version for any other language). [OBMM BSA Creator]
An ESM (A Master):
Early on we found that some new resources were being used by more than one city. Without an ESM, this means duplication of base objects in each ESP - not very tidy! So we adopted a single ESM to contain base records for all cities and Districts to reference as needed. Dialogue also goes into the ESM, as some of our dialogue is voiced, but voice files are stored in the Data folder based upon the ESM or ESP they are used by - since BC is modular, this gets messy as the same dialogue used by Better Cities - Chorrol.esp is needed by Better Cities Full.esp. So to avoid duplication of MP3s, the dialogue was moved into the ESM, allowing the MP3s to be stored once for use by the ESM only. Also (!) we store ALL interiors in the ESM instead of in each city or District ESP which makes creation of AI packages simpler as they can safely reference interiors from multiple cities or Districts. At the same time, this allows for the possibility of other ESPs to use the BC interiors without needing to be dependent on the BC ESPs. This means more to modders than mod users of course! [Tools used: TES4Edit and Brains!!!]
Built-in compatibility with other popular mods:
(Where possible)
Better Cities is specially tweaked in some locations to enable compatibility with other conflicting mods, without the need for patches. Examples include Bravil for Lost Spires, Bruma for Heart of the Dead, and the Arboretum for Let the People Drink. Lost Spires moved the city walls and raised some land up beside the Chapel to place a new building. Better Cities also moves the city walls to match Lost Spires, and raises the land height, so that Lost Spires' new building fits in perfectly. Yet this area is NOT left empty if you don't use Lost Spires. Without Lost Spires, you'll find a burnt out house ruin on the same spot, so you won't realize the area is reserved for Lost Spires. We do this for other mods as well! [Tool used: Brains!!!]

_______________________________________________________
Requirements
Official Oblivion Patched with http://static.gamesas.com/Oblivion/Oblivion_v1.2.0416English.exe (or whichever version you need for your language.

_______________________________________________________
Video Preview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Iu5Mu22sQ by mrcrusty. Thanks!!!
You can also http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14584 to get a better quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ajw0xdSCOg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdz3nwPw7S8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSz3WoNrYTw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh4wwpDXVjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q8DQkT2TPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zBpGMyIEnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41ryK572TkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMarn0-gblQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlqGNQbsIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGGmbXUbwIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCHYT1tR7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNlqwF41bX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usNORqG7V-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrFgnwf7ems

_______________________________________________________
Compatibility Patches & Fixes
Textures mods: No textures is altered by these mods so any mod changing the textures is compatible.
Unofficial Oblivion Patch: This mod is recommended with Better Cities because it fixes many things like for instance the giant scrying balls being handled as static without havoc which comes handy around Bruma, plus many other things that should have been addressed by Bethesda.

Already Compatible
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11495 OK (Arrival at Leyawiin Harbour possible by Robert Evrae. This requires OBSE v14+)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19039 OK (created compatible by RGM)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12016: OK (special version of Bravil)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9858: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12249 (aka MMM, OOO, Fran & Warcry): OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7825: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9724: OK (source Lyre)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692: OK (version 1.3+)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15617: OK (source Greenwarden & IceMan80)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14829: OK (source SheerShaw)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7902: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11249: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6895 OK (Compatible esp created by Geniel)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17201 OK (Compatible esp created by Lametrie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14425: OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17644 OK (created compatible via quest by AlexKnight1978)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16316 OK (created compatible by Ervvyn with OBSE v0014a+ detection)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6846: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.lostspires.com: OK
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9655: OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19628 OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13303: OK integrated in Better Cities IC Market and Temple Districts.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589: OK Integrated in Better Cities.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10256: OK Integrated in Better Cities IC.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14957: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Market District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3868: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Talos Plaza.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3771: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Palace.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4620: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4650: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4651: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://kvatch.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=887: OK (Source BBC Team)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22226: OK (Source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6779: OK (Source Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11999: OK (Source Vorians)
http://theelderscrolls.info/?go=dlfile&fileid=349: OK (BG2408)

Minor Issues
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=991: OK except for few floating signs (source Whitestrake)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14853: OK need to disable a wine barrel with the console (source Vorians)

Incompatible
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14442: NO but Better Cities have their own City Defenses now.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11333: NO with IC Market only (source 2Cold Scorpio-RGc1)
http://www.leiawen.net/ceedee/BabSite/html/addons.html: NO with IC Market only (source wmj)
Artifacts of the Ancestors with Blood & Mud and thus with Blood & Mud Editions of Better Cities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me4S61gySF4: NO, Never Ever This WIP from the creator of a lengthy list of dirty mods wont be compatible with Better Cities of course.

Users Fixes and Patches
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4954: OK (Fix by StarLion) http://rapidshare.com/files/77526935/IWR-Windows.esp.html.
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11027: OK (fix by Trader01) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14490.
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=4513 http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17454: OK (Patch by Roxas116)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18203 OK (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19263)

Patches & Fixes included in the Extras
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14601: OK (BBC must be loaded after VHB to ensure highest compatibility) (Patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3172: OK (Fix by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11778 OK (fix by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14939 OK (patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692: OK (fix by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19228 OK (patch by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10223 OK since version 2.4
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9450: OK (source Vorians and Blupie fixes)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19058 OK (made compatible by Ismelda)
http://www.stephanewuttunee.net/tnr_tie.html: OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3027: OK (Patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7155: OK (Fix by Ismelda)
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=581: OK (fix by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11598: OK (Patch by BluePie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7663: OK (fix by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8714: OK (Patch by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9357: OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11189: OK (Patch by Vorians - get all Vorians http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13834).
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5156: OK (Patch by Vorians) Load Better Cities after Thievery in the Imperial City and the patch after Better Cities.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3849: OK (Patch by Vorians)

_______________________________________________________
FPS Tips:
Use http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=795779
You can alter your Oblivion.ini file (After a Backup) to change these settings (http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=794126&st=129#)
fLODFadeOutActorMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see NPCs in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
fLODFadeOutItemMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see items in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
fLODFadeOutObjectMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see objects in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
(I use it at 0.8 for the 3 of them).
_______________________________________________________
Possible Issues
You might encounter some items that are really out of place when you update your Better Cities.
I don't have any explanantion on why this happens but the only way to fix it is:
- Uncheck the Better Cities plugins (cities, fixes, patchs at additions).
- Save your game.
- Re-enable the better cities plugins and load the game.
All should be back to normal. As Better Cities are not a quest mod, you will loose nothing.
_______________________________________________________
Bug Reports
Read the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=449239 pinned in this forum.
- Try to make Beta Comments (Tracking Down Problems With Specific Mods in the Oblivion Mods FAQ)
- Post a picture of the issue if possible (we spent more time modding than actually playing. We test the stuff we just created but we are humans and still can't miss things).
- When taking a screenshot, open your console and type in

SDT 33 (then enter)
TDT (then enter and close the console)

This will bring to the screen coordinates, cell name and so on which helps to locate where you are and where your bug was found.
Open the console and type TDT again to remove all the info from your screen.
_______________________________________________________
Projects of Interest about Cities:
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=796509
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=817511

_______________________________________________________
Alternative Mods:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589 by SilentResident

_______________________________________________________
Free Doors and Used Free Doors:

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ICMarketWestMap.jpg

Door 3 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19058.
Door 4 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3172.
Door 5 has an interior included in the ICMarket.
Door 6 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8714.
Doors 1 & 2 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ICMarketEastMap.jpg

Door 10 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14957.
Door 11 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7155.
Door 13 is reserved for the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692.
Door 14 is reserved for the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13303.
Doors 7, 8, 9 & 15 are free.

http://bettercities.free.fr/2009/02/BBCMarketUpperLevelMap.jpg

Doors 16 & 19 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_AnvilMap.jpg - http://bettercities.free.fr/Maps/BC_Anvil_Map.jpg

Door 1 & 5 have an interior included in Anvil.
Doors 2, 3 & 4 are free.

http://bettercities.free.fr/Maps/BC_Bravil_B&M_Map.jpg

No Free Doors

http://bettercities.free.fr/2008/11/FD_BravilNorth.jpg

No Free Doors

http://bettercities.free.fr/2008/11/FD_BravilSouth.jpg

No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_LeyawiinMap.jpg

Door 4 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8520
No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_LeyawiinDockMap.jpg

Doors 6 & 9 have interiors included in Leyawiin.
Doors 7 & 8 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_BrumaMap.jpg

No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_CheydinhalNorthMap.jpg
http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_CheydinhalSouthMap.jpg

No Free Doors.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ChorrolMap.jpg

No Free Doors
Door 3 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24564

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_SkingradNorthMap.jpg

Door 4 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14601
Door 1 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8520
Doors 3, 5, 6, 11 & 12 have an interior included in Skingrad.
Door 2 is free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_SkingradSouthMap.jpg

No Free Doors.

_______________________________________________________
Injected Records
Bananasplit's Better Cities Team will use a range of Injected ID into Oblivion.ESM which is from
0000FB00 to 0000FBFF
It is a range of 256 records which are free in Oblivion.ESM that we will use for toggle items to ensure compatibility with other mods without having to make patches or dependent files.
Please do not use any ID from this range in your own mods.

_______________________________________________________
For Translators:
My psd files of the shop signs are http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LCL06VKL

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:45 am

I love this mod - it's one of the best I've ever seen. I installed it on my Macbook Oblivion install (via Bootcamp) and it runs like a dream.

I'm having a bit a problem - it's the only problem I've found. My wells are duplicating and appearing in odd places. For example, when I'm in Chorrol, I can see two wells placed in the same location, one slightly adjar from the other. In the IC Marketplace, a well appears to confict with your mod placement (it's the one on the east side of the Marketplace (the side closest to the Arena District).

I've checked BOSS and Wrye Bash I don't see any confict notes. There are three mods that I'm running that I think install wells:

Better Cities
FF_Real_Thirst.esp
FF_Real_Thirst, COBL.esp

If it helps, some of the wells are marked "Potable Well" and some of them are marked "Wells". Is there a way to fix this? Thanks.

Edit: most of my wells are duplicated in some way. One exception is in the Arcane University. The new wells that I think you put in are the only one's that show up.

Dani

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:33 am

Are you actually meant to use both FF_Real_Thirst ESPs? Maybe the Cobl version is identical to the non-Cobl version except for some Coblness added, in which case that would cause duplication of wells.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:45 pm

Are you actually meant to use both FF_Real_Thirst ESPs? Maybe the Cobl version is identical to the non-Cobl version except for some Coblness added, in which case that would cause duplication of wells.

That's a good point. This is from the COBL readme:

Water Wells
Cobl provides standardized water sources (wells, barrels, etc.) which you can find in some mods (e.g. Better Cities). For these to be useful, you must have a Cobl aware hunger mod.

This is from the FF Thirst readme:

What this mod changes:
======================

FF Real Thirst changes all static wells in the stock game into activators from which you may either take a drink or fill your waterskins.

This is from the FF Thirst, COBL readme:

Requirements
============

* Cobl (of course) - http://wrye.ufrealms.net/
* FF_Real_Thirst 1.20 - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14214
* OBSE is required for to run FF_Real_Thirst 1.20. See the readme included with that mod for instructions.

The way it reads: FF Thirst changes all in-game wells. FF Thirst is required for FF Thirst, Cobl to work. Plus, Better Cities adds wells to the cities.

I've tested it some more and it does appear many of the wells in the cities are duplicates. Can't really tell if the wilderness wells are dupes or not.

Am I the only one experiencing this?

Dani

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:42 am

New to this Mod..WOW...what a difference!!!

That Being Said , one thing i noticed is that the Water Buckets that Shades Water buckets (mod used in conjunction with Simple Essentials). are all Floating up in the Air.

I used to use Cobl dinner and FF real thirst but seamed hassle to go to Dinner plate and much of your food would not show up so you were stuck with tons of food but nothing to eat.

With Simple essentials Everything that is food is no matter what mod its from is good to eat. With adding Shades water buckets you can fill junk Potion bottles with Water and have Water when you need it .

If its Because this mod moves everything to different Worlds then that is something I will have to live with. cause having used different Mods for Realism this combo Rocks!!

This is the Way Beth soft Should have made the Cities to begin with!

IN no way take this wrong but adding this to ones Load order last can really Tank your FPS. its not this mod. If this was the first mod I installed then it would have been RAEVWD or FCOM...lol Man I really Need one of the New FERMI video cards! my 8800 GTX is starting to whine!

Edit :to help answer above Questions..From the Readme at Nexus for FF real Thirst Cobl

Note that the proper version of FF_Real_Thirst is required! FF Real Thirst, Cobl uses ESP-mastering to alter the original records in FF_Real_Thirst.esp. Having "FF_Real_Thirst, Cobl.esp" but not FF_Real_Thirst.esp active will cause Oblivion to crash immediately on launch.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:00 am

@ Camaro-69: Thanks for the help, but I'm not having performance or crash issues, I'm having confict issues.

Well, I've spent about eight hours on this problem today, trying various solutions. I really, reallly like Real Thirst, primarily because it I use Real Hunger, Real Sleep, and Real Fatigue, as well. However, after opening the Construction Set tonight and looking around, it's obvious that Real Thirst's well placement conflicts horribly with Bananasplit's Better Cities. I'm not certain if support is still being provided for FF Real Thirst. I looked on the TESNexus forum and others have reported the same issue without a response from the mod author.

I have two options tonight: (1) make a patch for Real FF Thirst, basically removing all the duplicated and misplaced wells (over 100 well references) or (2) just stop using FF Real Thirst.

If anyone else has a suggestion, I'd love to hear it. I really don't want to change to another thirst mod unless it works with Real Hunger, etc.

~Dani~

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:00 am

I used both FF Real Thirst, COBL and Better Cities in my latest game without much problems.
I think, but I'm not completely sure, that what I did was just disable all the FF wells found in the various cityworlds and let BC take care of the wells, Takes only a minute or two do to with TES4EDIT.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:20 am

New to this Mod..WOW...what a difference!!!

That Being Said , one thing i noticed is that the Water Buckets that Shades Water buckets (mod used in conjunction with Simple Essentials). are all Floating up in the Air.

Clearly a conflict. This Shades Water Buckets mod (which I've never heard of) is placing water buckets in and near the cities at locations where BC has reshaped the land.

I have two options tonight: (1) make a patch for Real FF Thirst, basically removing all the duplicated and misplaced wells (over 100 well references) or (2) just stop using FF Real Thirst.

If anyone else has a suggestion, I'd love to hear it. I really don't want to change to another thirst mod unless it works with Real Hunger, etc.

~Dani~

Either option (2), or what Petrus suggests below.

I used both FF Real Thirst, COBL and Better Cities in my latest game without much problems.
I think, but I'm not completely sure, that what I did was just disable all the FF wells found in the various cityworlds and let BC take care of the wells, Takes only a minute or two do to with TES4EDIT.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:39 am

All our wells are working with real thirst mod option if you use the CBOL patch (created by Wrye himself) we provide. We have several wells in each city and all of them can provide the water you need. We do not touch the wilderness though so if the Real Thirst mod adds some in there we can't help. Now the best solution is what PetrusOctavianus propose: use both and just disable the additional wells from real thirst in the cities so they wont conflict unless they are in places that can accept them.

Another option would be to simply clean the real thirst mod you use from any references in town as it should be nearly the only place where you can have conflicts with Better Cities. That is possible to anyone to do with the use of TES4Edit.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:55 am

Thanks to everyone for the help. Disabling the wells with TES4edit worked beautifully.

Thanks again!

Dani

EDIT: On further reflection, I edited the original FF_Real_Thirst.esp to meet certain criteria:

1. I removed all wells that directly conflict with existing Better Cities wells.

2. I removed all wells that directly conflicted with existing Better Cities buildings and builds.

3. I moved wells that could easily be moved without disruption to Better Cities. In moving the wells, I thought about where a well would realistically be placed - close enough to use but not to interfere with traffic and/or buildings.

I did some research and discovered that, before modern plumbing, many wells were actually located OUTSIDE of city walls.

4. I added a series of smaller wells behind larger houses or chapels - the idea of being that one or two wells could not support an entire city population, particularly in the summer.

5. I'm currently adding "well clutter". Stuff around wells that make them look more realistic. Buckets, barrels, plants, benches, other stuff like that so that the wells don't look they were just thrown in to meet a mod's needs. Again not altering any wells added by Better Cities.

I'm not out much but about eight hours time and the experience I've gained using the TES Construction Set.

On the down side, I cannot find any contact information the maker, FritZ_FretZ, nor does he give any permissions in the readme. Without his permission, I won't publish a public version.

~Dani~

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:07 pm

Even with my new computer, I still struggle with Better Cities. I'm running QTP3 along with it, and my fps 14-20. I'm fine everywhere else, it's just when I walk into the cities. Is this normal?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:54 am

Even with my new computer, I still struggle with Better Cities. I'm running QTP3 along with it, and my fps 14-20. I'm fine everywhere else, it's just when I walk into the cities. Is this normal?

Yup, that is about normal for a good machine. Did you use the FPS patches? Do you have the PyFFI-optimized QTP3 meshes installed? Regardless, BC will have a significant FPS hit in cities. That is why it is emphasized on the mod's TESNexus page.

Edit: http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/lists/pyffiedmodslist. Many more mods seem to be PyFFI-optimized these days, but that list may be helpful for some of the big ones that are already around, including QTP3. See the PyFFI page on that site if you are interested in PyFFI-optimizing some other meshes.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:54 pm

Yup, that is about normal for a good machine. Did you use the FPS patches? Do you have the PyFFI-optimized QTP3 meshes installed? Regardless, BC will have a significant FPS hit in cities. That is why it is emphasized on the mod's TESNexus page.

I knew it would have a huge fps, I just wasn't expecting this much of one. I couldn't even get around them on my old computer very easily.

No, I'm using the normal QTP3 atm. I originally used it to see my computers limits, as I had high expectations, and most of them have been met. But I ended up keeping them because my computer seems to be okay with it. I might downoad QTP3R, though, because I could always use extra fps, and there really isn't that much of a visual difference.

EDIT: I might try that optimized version of QTP3 you linked to. Is there a difference between that and Redimized?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:28 am

The QTP3 optimized meshes are for QTP, QTP3R and QTP3 reduced. You should download it and install it on top of QTP3. The effect should be quite apparent, even in cities.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:52 am

Nevermind..

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:26 pm

I suggest installing the Redimized version of QTP3 as well. It is not exactly the same as QTP3, but the quality is fairly close. The difference between the three main version of QTP3 (found on TOTO) is the texture resolution. I think there is a version that further reduces QTP3 with mesh edits, but I would not really know. Anyway, for you, going from QTP3 to QTP3R would only be a minor decrease in texture resolution in places.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:09 am

I suggest installing the Redimized version of QTP3 as well. It is not exactly the same as QTP3, but the quality is fairly close. The difference between the three main version of QTP3 (found on TOTO) is the texture resolution. I think there is a version that further reduces QTP3 with mesh edits, but I would not really know. Anyway, for you, going from QTP3 to QTP3R would only be a minor decrease in texture resolution in places.

Thanks for all the help. I might try out QTP3R again later. I installed the PyFFI meshes, and it seems to have made somewhat of a difference. (I'd say my average city framerate is 18...), but Bravil still gets the same fps.

I just want to make sure I installed all this correctly. I extracted QTP3 and it's patch into my Data folder. Then I activated UOP and UOP/QTP3 compatibility in OBMM. And finally I copied the meshes folder of the optimized mod into my data folder, overwriting as prompted. Is this right?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:59 pm

Thanks for all the help. I might try out QTP3R again later. I installed the PyFFI meshes, and it seems to have made somewhat of a difference. (I'd say my average city framerate is 18...), but Bravil still gets the same fps.

I just want to make sure I installed all this correctly. I extracted QTP3 and it's patch into my Data folder. Then I activated UOP and UOP/QTP3 compatibility in OBMM. And finally I copied the meshes folder of the optimized mod into my data folder, overwriting as prompted. Is this right?

BAIN has prioritized installation, so the order of http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/lists/mybainlist is the order in which archives are installed. This is an excerpt pertaining to the QTP3 pieces.
281 - ==MESH REPLACERS==.7z (00000000)
282 - PyFFI-Optimized Vanilla Meshes.7z (4C849C5A)
283 - PyFFI-Optimized SI Meshes.7z (C11E0E88)
284 - QTP3R.7z (F410216B)
285 - Qarl's Texture Pack 3 R Patch.7z (CABF0638)
286 - Optimized QTP3 Meshes - Fixed-26756.7z (8A16159E)
287 - Qarl's Texture Pack Optimized Meshes-23178.7z (F37715BD)
288 - QTP - Better Tiling Textures-6996.7z (4721AEEE)
289 - QTP3 Custom Textures-26075.7z (203D88F5)
290 - ==UNOFFICIAL PATCHES==.7z (000000
295 - Unofficial Oblivion Patch v3.2.0.7z (BCBA7B56) <-- I actually have this in the wrong place (look at the number), haha. I need to fix this when I get access to my desktop again.
298 - UOP Hotfix-27710.7z (3B9A1A49)
291 - Official DLC Plugins.7z (9016CB62)
292 - QTP3 UOP32 Compatibility Patch-11261.7z (E4B99AD6)

Edit: The UOP is already optimized, and the FIXED QTP3 PyFFI meshes already contain the UOP+QTP3 patch changes, so your installation order is correct.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:16 pm

Clearly a conflict. This Shades Water Buckets mod (which I've never heard of) is placing water buckets in and near the cities at locations where BC has reshaped the land.

I got the name wrong.....this is it at Nexus......http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30087 How would one go about fixing something like this, is this Patchable? The mod adds Water buckets that you can fill your water skins at.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:17 am

Is OBC still compatible with the latest version of BC (4.5.1)? I'm asking because with 4.4.1, I was getting frequent crashes in the cities, often when I tried to transition into/out of a building. I decided to go with straight BC for 4.5.1, but if they are compatible, I'll try that out.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:42 am

Hi,

I hope someone can help - I've just installed Better Cities and wandered into the Public Bathing house in the Imperial Cities Market District, and found that the water is black. If I change my perspective i an see out from under the water, but from above it's completely black. No other water I've encountered appears affected.

Does anyone have any clues? I've done the usual update to the latest video drivers, reboot machine, reinstall, etc but to no avail

I know it's not a major issue and I probably won't go in there all that often, but it just doesn't look right.

Cheers,
Straub666

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:50 am

Is OBC still compatible with the latest version of BC (4.5.1)? I'm asking because with 4.4.1, I was getting frequent crashes in the cities, often when I tried to transition into/out of a building. I decided to go with straight BC for 4.5.1, but if they are compatible, I'll try that out.

OBC is compatible with v4.0.0 of Better Cities. That's the most I can be certain of. Beyond that all I can say is OBC is probably compatible with more recent releases of BC, but can't promise anything.

Hi,

I hope someone can help - I've just installed Better Cities and wandered into the Public Bathing house in the Imperial Cities Market District, and found that the water is black. If I change my perspective i an see out from under the water, but from above it's completely black. No other water I've encountered appears affected.

Does anyone have any clues? I've done the usual update to the latest video drivers, reboot machine, reinstall, etc but to no avail

I know it's not a major issue and I probably won't go in there all that often, but it just doesn't look right.

Cheers,
Straub666

Never heard of black water before, sorry can't help.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:38 am

Hi,

I hope someone can help - I've just installed Better Cities and wandered into the Public Bathing house in the Imperial Cities Market District, and found that the water is black. If I change my perspective i an see out from under the water, but from above it's completely black. No other water I've encountered appears affected.

Does anyone have any clues? I've done the usual update to the latest video drivers, reboot machine, reinstall, etc but to no avail

I know it's not a major issue and I probably won't go in there all that often, but it just doesn't look right.

Cheers,
Straub666

Do you use a mod that installs water meshes? You should check. I am not sure if formID works on water, but give it a try. If you used PyFFI on the vanilla meshes, re-PyFFI the water meshes or replace them with the originals.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:47 am

Do you use a mod that installs water meshes? You should check. I am not sure if formID works on water, but give it a try. If you used PyFFI on the vanilla meshes, re-PyFFI the water meshes or replace them with the originals.

Water isn't done with meshes. Could be a bad texture replacement, but that should affect all water.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:34 am

Water isn't done with meshes. Could be a bad texture replacement, but that should affect all water.

Oh, I thought the UL mods added custom water meshes...hmmm...good to know. That was the only way I could think of having the black water issue. Or at least, I thought surfaces of some water was done by using custom meshes.

Another thing to check, straub66, how many ESPs, ESMs and BSAs do you have installed. You may have hit http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/randompages/facts. That was the only time I ever saw black textures. All kinds of things would randomly be black or violet. I do not know if there are degrees of wackiness related to the issue, since you have only one instance of the problem. If that is your problem, here are some suggestions: http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/libraries/cps/overload.