[Relz]Bananasplit's Better Cities - Thread 31 : IV

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:05 pm

http://tinyurl.com/BetterCities30

"This is a translation of Bananasplit's awesome Better Cities mod, which aims at making all the cities in the game more beautiful.
All credit goes to Bananasplit for the creation of his mod, I merely translated some names and the new Guide to Skingrad."
SATU

As you know we took over the job started by Satu with Skingrad and Bravil. The following cities from Bananasplit's Better Cities were also translated:
- Imperial City Market
- Chorrol
- Anvil
- Leyawiin
Then we added Reckless' Better City Cheydinhal, Wolfslady's Better City Bruma & Better Arboretum, SilentResident's ImpeREAL, jf2ln Anvil Bay and Bravil Dock and finally OnWard Softworks (aka TheXanadu & TheLastVoice) 's Leyawiin Port.

All these files are in the same pack in http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513.
Expect new Patches/Fixes/Enhancements every Now and Then

Find the http://www.scharesoft.de/joomla/forum/showthread.php?t=18464.
Find the http://tesall.ru/files/oblivion/betcities/.

_______________________________________________________
Technical Features:
Unique range of formID for each City/district:
Allow the merging of the esp while using TES4Gecko to never change any formID and thus banishing forever the need of clean saves between different version (started on version 4.3.0). This step was needed because of the Modularity of the mod. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
Modularity:
Each city and each IC District is offered in two ways: as a separate ESP on its own, or as part of two merged Full ESPs. This allows users to pick and choose which cities/Districts to use, so if they don't like one they can choose not to use it, or if a city or District conflicts with another mod they use, they can choose not to use it. Yet if you do want to use all cities, there's a single ESP for all, and if you want all IC Districts, there's a single ESP for all, which helps reduce the number of active ESPs in your load order if you do want every city and every District. We expand this concept into the City Defences ESPs - separate ESPs for each city, or a single Full ESP for all of them. And then again with the FPS patch ESPs as well! [Tool used: Brains!!!]
Unique worldspace in the Imperial City:
Allow to have a separate Map for the Imperial City and also to banish any conflict with any mod dealing with the Imperial Isle (Unique Landscape Imperial Isle and others) as the districts do not share their landscape edition with the Imperial Isle anymore. The drawback is that the Better Imperial City needs to be loaded last (or so) in your load order to ensure that no mod is resetting the IC to its initial worldspace. You also can't fast travel outside the city (Speed is Limited!) but you need to get out of the IC to be able to fast travel to other places outside the IC. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
Way of dealing with Doors:
We replace the doors by BC version of the same doors when we have to move them from their vanilla position. The vanilla doors are disabled and made non persistent so that their state wont be kept in your saved game and if you remove Better Cities, the vanilla doors will automatically be back at their right place without any issue. [Tool used: Brains!!!]
Customization:
Nearly each city/district has its own customization based on the users preferences on gore, FPS issue and compatibility with other mods. The customization comes in 2 different way: In Game Menu for those who use OBSE (which is recommended also to use Streamline and lower the FPS hit of Better Cities) and Manual where the user needs to enter some console commands to achieve the customization desired. [Tool used: OBSE and Brains]
BAIN & Scripted Installation:
The installation which comes in 3 archives (Mains files with the esp/esm, Main resources with the bsa archives and Update to the Resources if and when needed) is all scripted to facilitate an omod installation with Oblivion Mod Manager. In the same way, the archives are packaged to allow an easy BAIN Installation when Using Wrye Bash. [Tool Used: OBMM and Wrye Bash]
Cleaned ESP:
All our plugins are cleaned with TES4Edit to limit the conflicts with Oblivion Vanilla and Other mods. Of course this doesn't mean that others mods wont conflict with Better Cities but just that we took extreme precautions to limit those conflict as much as we could. Before reporting any conflict, make sure that Better Cities is loaded after the mod you think is conflicting. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
PiFFYed Meshes:
All our meshes are PyFFIed and further stripped of useless data to ensure an optimum performance in game. [Tool used: PyFFI]
BSA Archives:
All the main resources are then packaged into BSA archives (when this is possible) to allow an easy install/uninstall. The BSA are separated into different categories for customization purposes (B&M or vanilla Bravil textures for instance) and translation purposes (English Names on Textures and English Dialogs which can be replaced by their translated version for any other language). [OBMM BSA Creator]
An ESM (A Master):
Early on we found that some new resources were being used by more than one city. Without an ESM, this means duplication of base objects in each ESP - not very tidy! So we adopted a single ESM to contain base records for all cities and Districts to reference as needed. Dialogue also goes into the ESM, as some of our dialogue is voiced, but voice files are stored in the Data folder based upon the ESM or ESP they are used by - since BC is modular, this gets messy as the same dialogue used by Better Cities - Chorrol.esp is needed by Better Cities Full.esp. So to avoid duplication of MP3s, the dialogue was moved into the ESM, allowing the MP3s to be stored once for use by the ESM only. Also (!) we store ALL interiors in the ESM instead of in each city or District ESP which makes creation of AI packages simpler as they can safely reference interiors from multiple cities or Districts. At the same time, this allows for the possibility of other ESPs to use the BC interiors without needing to be dependent on the BC ESPs. This means more to modders than mod users of course! [Tools used: TES4Edit and Brains!!!]
Built-in compatibility with other popular mods:
(Where possible)
Better Cities is specially tweaked in some locations to enable compatibility with other conflicting mods, without the need for patches. Examples include Bravil for Lost Spires, Bruma for Heart of the Dead, and the Arboretum for Let the People Drink. Lost Spires moved the city walls and raised some land up beside the Chapel to place a new building. Better Cities also moves the city walls to match Lost Spires, and raises the land height, so that Lost Spires' new building fits in perfectly. Yet this area is NOT left empty if you don't use Lost Spires. Without Lost Spires, you'll find a burnt out house ruin on the same spot, so you won't realize the area is reserved for Lost Spires. We do this for other mods as well! [Tool used: Brains!!!]

_______________________________________________________
Requirements
Official Oblivion Patched with http://static.gamesas.com/Oblivion/Oblivion_v1.2.0416English.exe (or whichever version you need for your language.

_______________________________________________________
Video Preview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Iu5Mu22sQ by mrcrusty. Thanks!!!
You can also http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14584 to get a better quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ajw0xdSCOg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdz3nwPw7S8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSz3WoNrYTw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh4wwpDXVjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q8DQkT2TPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zBpGMyIEnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41ryK572TkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMarn0-gblQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlqGNQbsIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGGmbXUbwIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCHYT1tR7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNlqwF41bX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usNORqG7V-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrFgnwf7ems

_______________________________________________________
Compatibility Patches & Fixes
Textures mods: No textures is altered by these mods so any mod changing the textures is compatible.
Unofficial Oblivion Patch: This mod is recommended with Better Cities because it fixes many things like for instance the giant scrying balls being handled as static without havoc which comes handy around Bruma, plus many other things that should have been addressed by Bethesda.

Already Compatible
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11495 OK (Arrival at Leyawiin Harbour possible by Robert Evrae. This requires OBSE v14+)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19039 OK (created compatible by RGM)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12016: OK (special version of Bravil)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9858: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12249 (aka MMM, OOO, Fran & Warcry): OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7825: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9724: OK (source Lyre)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692: OK (version 1.3+)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15617: OK (source Greenwarden & IceMan80)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14829: OK (source SheerShaw)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7902: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11249: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6895 OK (Compatible esp created by Geniel)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17201 OK (Compatible esp created by Lametrie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14425: OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17644 OK (created compatible via quest by AlexKnight1978)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16316 OK (created compatible by Ervvyn with OBSE v0014a+ detection)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6846: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.lostspires.com: OK
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9655: OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19628 OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13303: OK integrated in Better Cities IC Market and Temple Districts.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589: OK Integrated in Better Cities.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10256: OK Integrated in Better Cities IC.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14957: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Market District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3868: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Talos Plaza.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3771: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Palace.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4620: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4650: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4651: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://kvatch.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=887: OK (Source BBC Team)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22226: OK (Source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6779: OK (Source Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11999: OK (Source Vorians)
http://theelderscrolls.info/?go=dlfile&fileid=349: OK (BG2408)

Minor Issues
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=991: OK except for few floating signs (source Whitestrake)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14853: OK need to disable a wine barrel with the console (source Vorians)

Incompatible
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3849: NO with Cheydinhal only (source TUPPSY & wmj)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14442: NO but Better Cities have their own City Defenses now.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11333: NO with IC Market only (source 2Cold Scorpio-RGc1)
http://www.leiawen.net/ceedee/BabSite/html/addons.html: NO with IC Market only (source wmj)
Artifacts of the Ancestors with Blood & Mud and thus with Blood & Mud Editions of Better Cities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me4S61gySF4: NO, Never Ever This WIP from the infamous creator of a lengthy list of dirty mods wont be compatible with Better Cities of course.

Users Fixes and Patches
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4954: OK (Fix by StarLion) http://rapidshare.com/files/77526935/IWR-Windows.esp.html.
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11027: OK (fix by Trader01) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14490.
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=4513 http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17454: OK (Patch by Roxas116)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18203 OK (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19263)

Patches & Fixes included in the Extras
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14601: OK (BBC must be loaded after VHB to ensure highest compatibility) (Patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3172: OK (Fix by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11778 OK (fix by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14939 OK (patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692: OK (fix by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19228 OK (patch by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10223 OK since version 2.4
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9450: OK (source Vorians and Blupie fixes)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19058 OK (made compatible by Ismelda)
http://www.stephanewuttunee.net/tnr_tie.html: OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3027: OK (Patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7155: OK (Fix by Ismelda)
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=581: OK (fix by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11598: OK (Patch by BluePie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7663: OK (fix by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8714: OK (Patch by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9357: OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11189: OK (Patch by Vorians - get all Vorians http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13834).
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5156: OK (Patch by Vorians) Load Better Cities after Thievery in the Imperial City and the patch after Better Cities.

_______________________________________________________
FPS Tips:
Use http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=795779
You can alter your Oblivion.ini file (After a Backup) to change these settings (http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=794126&st=129#)
fLODFadeOutActorMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see NPCs in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
fLODFadeOutItemMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see items in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
fLODFadeOutObjectMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see objects in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
(I use it at 0.8 for the 3 of them).
_______________________________________________________
Possible Issues
You might encounter some items that are really out of place when you update your Better Cities.
I don't have any explanantion on why this happens but the only way to fix it is:
- Uncheck the Better Cities plugins (cities, fixes, patchs at additions).
- Save your game.
- Re-enable the better cities plugins and load the game.
All should be back to normal. As Better Cities are not a quest mod, you will loose nothing.
_______________________________________________________
Bug Reports
Read the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=449239 pinned in this forum.
- Try to make Beta Comments (Tracking Down Problems With Specific Mods in the Oblivion Mods FAQ)
- Post a picture of the issue if possible (we spent more time modding than actually playing. We test the stuff we just created but we are humans and still can't miss things).
- When taking a screenshot, open your console and type in

SDT 33 (then enter)
TDT (then enter and close the console)

This will bring to the screen coordinates, cell name and so on which helps to locate where you are and where your bug was found.
Open the console and type TDT again to remove all the info from your screen.
_______________________________________________________
Projects of Interest about Cities:
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=796509
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=817511

_______________________________________________________
Alternative Mods:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589 by SilentResident

_______________________________________________________
Free Doors and Used Free Doors:

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ICMarketWestMap.jpg

Door 3 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19058.
Door 4 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3172.
Door 5 has an interior included in the ICMarket.
Door 6 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8714.
Doors 1 & 2 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ICMarketEastMap.jpg

Door 10 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14957.
Door 11 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7155.
Door 13 is reserved for the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692.
Door 14 is reserved for the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13303.
Doors 7, 8, 9 & 15 are free.

http://bettercities.free.fr/2009/02/BBCMarketUpperLevelMap.jpg

Doors 16 & 19 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_AnvilMap.jpg - http://bettercities.free.fr/Maps/BC_Anvil_Map.jpg

Door 5 has an interior included in Anvil.
Doors 1, 2, 3 & 4 are free.

http://bettercities.free.fr/Maps/BC_Bravil_B&M_Map.jpg

No Free Doors

http://bettercities.free.fr/2008/11/FD_BravilNorth.jpg

No Free Doors

http://bettercities.free.fr/2008/11/FD_BravilSouth.jpg

No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_LeyawiinMap.jpg

Door 4 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8520
No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_LeyawiinDockMap.jpg

Doors 6 & 9 have interiors included in Leyawiin.
Doors 7 & 8 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_BrumaMap.jpg

No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_CheydinhalNorthMap.jpg
http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_CheydinhalSouthMap.jpg

No Free Doors.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ChorrolMap.jpg

No Free Doors
Door 3 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7925 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8699

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_SkingradNorthMap.jpg

Door 4 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14601
Door 1 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8520
Doors 3, 5, 6, 11 & 12 have an interior included in Skingrad.
Door 2 is free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_SkingradSouthMap.jpg

No Free Doors.

_______________________________________________________
Injected Records
Bananasplit's Better Cities Team will use a range of Injected ID into Oblivion.ESM which is from
0000FB00 to 0000FBFF
It is a range of 256 records which are free in Oblivion.ESM that we will use for toggle items to ensure compatibility with other mods without having to make patches or dependent files.
Please do not use any ID from this range in your own mods.

_______________________________________________________
For Translators:
My psd files of the shop signs are http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LCL06VKL

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:14 am

Just passing by to say that i still love this mod as the first time i used it. Your contribution is greatly appreciated, BC team

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:46 am

I guess we have a simple answer: Saying that Better Cities Requires SI extension.

It is quite hard to figure from the Cs that this mesh:
Dungeons\RuinInteriors\DecorationsAndStatues\RuinsHangingLightAnchor.NIF (which is found in the DLCShiveringIsle.bsa)
and some other are indeed SI only. It may be possible that we didn't add so much SI new material in Better Cities but it is safer to assume that we did (or we will) and that we don't want to strip them off or re-upload SI stuff as it is forbidden anyway. So the easy going solution is to say that SI is required.

Sounds like a perfectly good solution to me. Yeah, not all of the SI parts have the convenient "SE" prefix on them. But anything in the "RuinInteriors" folder is an SI part. I have a feeling the issue of invalid references doesn't come up very often is in fact because more people have SI than not and nobody ever had to look into it before.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:36 pm

Sounds like a perfectly good solution to me. Yeah, not all of the SI parts have the convenient "SE" prefix on them. But anything in the "RuinInteriors" folder is an SI part. I have a feeling the issue of invalid references doesn't come up very often is in fact because more people have SI than not and nobody ever had to look into it before.

And since neither Ismelda nor I have non-SI Oblivion, we'd never come across such problems ourselves! Hey look, my internet is working this morning, and I'm at home!!!! Wasn't working last night though, how long will it la...[DISCONNECTED]

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:55 am

I recently decided to take another swing throught the Old Crow Inn quest, so I installed the original esp & BC patch. Set load order with BOSS. I generally always take a gander in TES4Edit whenever I make changes, and have a question about what I saw. BOSS has the Old Crow Inn patch loading after Better Imperial City, and the patch modifies the IC Market District worldspace NAM9 values from what they are in Better Imperial City (#0 49152 & #1 86016) back to Oblivion.esm default values (40960 & 77824). I know my way around oblivion records at approximately an "educated layman" level, but frankly have never had a clue what NAM0 & NAM9 are and haven't been able to find information on them, and so cannot tell if this is a "working as designed" or otherwise harmless interaction or if there is something wrong. I do know that the Imperial City worldspace should be sacrosanct after Better Imperial City in the load list. Is this load order as it should be?

I am using BC 4.3.6b (& OCI patch from that package), and BOSS 1.41 (w masterlist circa 9/24/09).

Thanks in advance!

Kazan

P.S. If you feel gregarious and want to clue me in about what NAM0 & NAM9 are and what they mean for mod interactions, I certainly wouldn't object, but if that's a question for another thread it's of course all good.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:59 pm

I recently decided to take another swing throught the Old Crow Inn quest, so I installed the original esp & BC patch. Set load order with BOSS. I generally always take a gander in TES4Edit whenever I make changes, and have a question about what I saw. BOSS has the Old Crow Inn patch loading after Better Imperial City, and the patch modifies the IC Market District worldspace NAM9 values from what they are in Better Imperial City (#0 49152 & #1 86016) back to Oblivion.esm default values (40960 & 77824). I know my way around oblivion records at approximately an "educated layman" level, but frankly have never had a clue what NAM0 & NAM9 are and haven't been able to find information on them, and so cannot tell if this is a "working as designed" or otherwise harmless interaction or if there is something wrong. I do know that the Imperial City worldspace should be sacrosanct after Better Imperial City in the load list. Is this load order as it should be?

I am using BC 4.3.6b (& OCI patch from that package), and BOSS 1.41 (w masterlist circa 9/24/09).

Thanks in advance!

Kazan

P.S. If you feel gregarious and want to clue me in about what NAM0 & NAM9 are and what they mean for mod interactions, I certainly wouldn't object, but if that's a question for another thread it's of course all good.

I'm asking Elminster about the NAM0 and NAM9 records.

For the patch, it is safe to load it after Better Cities because we did change the worldspace in the patch so that it matches Better Cities worldspace.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:47 am

I believe they contain a record of the area of the worldspace which contains objects. So if for example the vanilla game has the city walls as the most extreme-placed objects in the Market District, and a mod places something beyond those walls, then those records would update with expanded entries. I also believe that they are in fact irrelevant - they exist purely as information, nothing refers to them.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:53 am

This is a guess on my part, but the NAM0 and NAM9 records look like the "usable coordinates" values you enter into the CS when establishing the size of a worldspace. Which seems to fit, if you have TR_Stirk loaded these values are changed because they stretched the usable area of Tamriel.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:00 pm

This is a guess on my part, but the NAM0 and NAM9 records look like the "usable coordinates" values you enter into the CS when establishing the size of a worldspace. Which seems to fit, if you have TR_Stirk loaded these values are changed because they stretched the usable area of Tamriel.

Well that's not entirely viable, since they automatically increase, you the modder don't have to adjust them. I think they're as I described them, though based on your post I'll revise it slightly: they're the object-occupied coordinates. Presumably X to X for NAM0, then Y to Y for NAM9, or NAM0 might be X start Y start, NAM9 X end Y end (I haven't bothered to look at the entries to determine which way around it would be

). Z coordinate is not taken into consideration, which isn't surprising since height isn't considered when judging whether an NPC or creature has seen the player either.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:48 am

Oh, right. Wrong values I had in mind. It's probably then more likely to be the "Cell Coordinates" values you put into the CS, translated into the actual X/Y coordinate values. But even that's not necessarily right because the Tamriel worldspace extends beyond those values, even though that's well into the LOD regions to start with.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:45 pm

I've been meaning to inform you for some time now that the clocktower in Leyawiin has a tree in it, and since you are not allowed to put the Clock.esp after B.C. I guess that is the problem.

You know one insane quest would be to stack all the books in the Public library in some semblance of order

Cheers!

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:40 pm

I've been meaning to inform you for some time now that the clocktower in Leyawiin has a tree in it, and since you are not allowed to put the Clock.esp after B.C. I guess that is the problem.

You know one insane quest would be to stack all the books in the Public library in some semblance of order

Cheers!

StartQuest BANLeyawiinCOCFix resolves the tree

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:00 pm

StartQuest BANLeyawiinCOCFix resolves the tree

Really, thank you. I love reading ReadMe's but information can and will slip past on occasion :embarrass:

EDIT - Funny, when i saw the OBSE meny I had a vague recollection that I had done this in the past. Been some updates since then. And now I forgot to check if it worked as intended; when first I used the CoC compatibility it said it turned it off

END EDIT

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:07 pm

Awesome mods here guys. Not sure what I'd do without them. There's just so much more to see its incredible.

On another note http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15795 is incompatible with the new IC Waterfront. Just some exterior static clipping though, so nothing major.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:53 pm

"Expect new Patches/Fixes/Enhancements every Monday" > "Expect new Patches/Fixes/Enhancements every Month" > "Expect new Patches/Fixes/Enhancements every Now and Then"

Better Cities has come a long way indeed

Keep up the bad work, folks :thumbsup:

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:34 am

You know one insane quest would be to stack all the books in the Public library in some semblance of order

Cheers!

That sounds really familiar. Isn't there some other library mod which gives this exact quest?

I do already have an idea for a quest relating to the Imperial Library, but since I'm really dragging my feet working on the Bravil quest I came up with, it'll be a while before I get to it.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:58 am

Hi everybody, can someone tell me if this mod is compatible with audio mods like:

Audia Arcanum Sound Overhaul v20 - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9218

or

Atmospheric Oblivion - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7703 ?

I don't speak english very well but I'm asking this because I red this comment for Audia Arcanum:

"This is a really neat mod. However, be aware that alot of sounds are added via scripts attached to mundane things, like lights, barrels, flora, etc. I was using this mod happily until I dwnld SilentResident's ImpeReal City - Unique Districts mod http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589

Then I ran into problems. Thank all the gods for TES4Edit http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11536. Any highly decorative mod like "ImpeReal City" is bound to use some (or many) of the objects that the sound scripts have been attached to (example using a 100 or so of the Yellow Flax Flora, or a couple of dozen barrels). With TES4Edit I had to make some choices, delete all the Yellow Flax Flora from the Arboretum in the "ImpeReal City" mod, or delete the scripted version created by "Audia Arcanum". The beauty of "Audia Arcanum" is that I can go into the CS and switch the script to another object that isn't in use on mass in a low fps place like the Imperial City.

So I would highly recommend this mod, but be prepared to tweak it if you use any mod that adds alot of one item to an area. It just might have a script attached to it."

Can you tell me something about this?

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:44 pm

Audia Arcanum makes barrels and flowers noisy? That's WEIRD. You'll have the same issues with Better Cities, since much of the BC Imperial City is ImpeREAL City repackaged, and the remaining Districts and other cities are FAR more greatly overhauled than ImpeREAL City, so will contain more flowers, barrels, and anything else that might be noisy with Audia Arcanum (does it make the rocks sing? That would be fun).

Atmospheric Oblivion ought to be fine though, I don't think that mod does funny things like adding sound effects to silent objects.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:41 pm

Quick(ish) note. A problem I recently had the BC patch for the Cheydinhal Falls patch has made me look afresh at a separate issue I'd had with BC for some time, but which didn't impact my game enough to want to dig into until now.

Basically, starting at around 4.3.0 or so, Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp seemed to stop doing anything useful for me - enabled or otherwise I got a flooded Leyawiin. However, if I tag it with C.Water and incorporate it into my Bashed Patch with its merge cells function, it works. Also, looking at it with TES4Edit, Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp contains a couple of Identical To Master edits - should it?

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:50 am

Quick(ish) note. A problem I recently had the BC patch for the Cheydinhal Falls patch has made me look afresh at a separate issue I'd had with BC for some time, but which didn't impact my game enough to want to dig into until now.

Basically, starting at around 4.3.0 or so, Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp seemed to stop doing anything useful for me - enabled or otherwise I got a flooded Leyawiin. However, if I tag it with C.Water and incorporate it into my Bashed Patch with its merge cells function, it works. Also, looking at it with TES4Edit, Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp contains a couple of Identical To Master edits - should it?

Make sure that the no flood esp is loaded after the patches and it should be fine and yes it should have records identical to master as its point is to revert the flood to vanilla water level in Leyawiin.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:33 am

Basically, starting at around 4.3.0 or so, Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp seemed to stop doing anything useful for me - enabled or otherwise I got a flooded Leyawiin. However, if I tag it with C.Water and incorporate it into my Bashed Patch with its merge cells function, it works. Also, looking at it with TES4Edit, Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp contains a couple of Identical To Master edits - should it?

If you want to view the No Flooding ESP in TES4Edit to see what it does, you need to load BC Leyawiin or BC Full as well (with the No Flooding loading last). Then you'll see that there are actually no Identical To Master edits. It is a patch, and those should not be viewed on its own, but only with the other ESPs it is meant to affect (even if they aren't its master, there is still implicit dependency on BC Leyawiin/Full).

The reason the water height appeared wrong is probably because of BC City Defences, which I believe Ismelda has tagged with C.Water. Even if it doesn't have this tag, the ESP itself is fully mergeable into the Bash Patch (I didn't know the Bash Patch had come so far as to be able to merge an ESP like the City Defences, but it has!) thus the water height in City Defences ESP will override the No Flooding ESP. Tagging the No Flooding ESP would (as you discovered) resolve this.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:23 pm

Hey, just a bug report or two, any plans to address these?

- In the waterfront, all of the shopkeepers from the tent-circle by the PC owned house have disappeared and no longer offer services; they are not in their homes, either.
- Lots of cells (Bravil slum, Skingrad DB sanctuary, Abandoned houses, ETC) play happy, up-beat 'public' music instead of more fitting Dungeon music...
- When I first walk into the Market district, there is always a large "!" error marker named 'Notice' in the console that is lying on the street when you enter from the bridge to the Prison district.
- Some of the pirates in Anvil Harbour - from the ship on the far eastern side of the harbour - seem to respawn, despite their being named individuals.

Also, an fyi, the main file of LAME - less annoying magic experience - for whatever reason makes alterations to the town of Bruma, and Better Cities needs to be loaded in front of it, or wierdness ensues with doors hanging in midair.

And one last thing, the caverns beneath

Spoiler

Chorrol

are *so* cool! Pity the giant door doesn't lead anywhere, though. Nice ambiance.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:00 pm

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513

Except some fixing the main news is that Vorians started to add quests in Better Cities. One brand new quest is located in the Bravil Bay and concern one of the boat there. He also added lot of new (unvoiced) dialogs to some NPCs in Bravil Bay. It is just a shame that the time you pass to resolve a quest is nothing compared to the time spend to creating it.

Cheydinhal surrounding has been cleaned to offer better compatibility to the new http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27494. The patches Vorians created have been added to the Better Cities pack and the omod script will detect it and install the one you need (depending on the esp you are using for Cheydinhal - if any) and install the patch under the name "Better Cities - UL Cheydinhal Falls.esp".

A new command in has been added in Cheydinhal to allow compatibility with Dragon Caption new mod: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21103.

And finally, in Anvil, an upper house has been granted an access from the floor level.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:24 am

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513

Excellent!

There is an error in the OMOD script however:

Script reads (from line 820):

;UL Cheydinhal Falls	If DataFileExists "xulCheydinhalFalls.esp"		If DataFileExists "Blood&Mud.esp"			If Equal %iPre0% 1				CopyPlugin "31 UL Cheydinhal Falls\\BCCheydinhalFULLB&M-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp" %nam26Mod%				LoadAfter %nam26Mod% %Pre0aMod%			Else				CopyPlugin "31 UL Cheydinhal Falls\\BCCheydinhal-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp" %nam26Mod%				LoadAfter %nam26Mod% %Pre3Mod%			EndIf		Else			If Equal %iPre0% 1				CopyPlugin "31 UL Cheydinhal Falls\\BCCheydinhalFULL-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp" %nam26Mod%				LoadAfter %nam26Mod% %Pre0Mod%			EndIf		EndIf	EndIf

Should read (I think, it works for me anyway):

;UL Cheydinhal Falls	If DataFileExists "xulCheydinhalFalls.esp"		If DataFileExists "Blood&Mud.esp"			If Equal %iPre0% 1				CopyPlugin "31 UL Cheydinhal Falls\\BCCheydinhalFULLB&M-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp" %nam26mod%				LoadAfter  %nam26mod% %Pre0aMod%			Else				CopyPlugin "31 UL Cheydinhal Falls\\BCCheydinhal-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp" %nam26mod%				LoadAfter  %nam26mod% %Pre3Mod%			EndIf		Else			If Equal %iPre0% 1				CopyPlugin "31 UL Cheydinhal Falls\\BCCheydinhalFULL-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp" %nam26mod%				LoadAfter  %nam26mod% %Pre0Mod%			Else				CopyPlugin "31 UL Cheydinhal Falls\\BBCCheydinhal-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp" %nam26mod%				LoadAfter  %nam26mod% %Pre3Mod%			EndIf		EndIf	EndIf

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:49 pm

I've got some news regarding the Cobl file.
I was the one who did the last update to it, changing some BBC ingredients to Cobl ones in cells, inventories, etc... At the time my solution was very imperfect, because the file grew too big, made too many changes (== possible incompatibilities) and couldn't do anything about new instances of those ingredients being used in future versions.
Now I have managed to make a "swapper" script just like the one from The Ayleid Steps, to change those ingredients dynamically once they are in the players inventory. So no more dirty changes everywhere: just a quest and a script. The ingredients remain as originally laid by the modders, decorative to look at, and if the player decides to pick them up they will be swapped to their Cobl equivalent.
But this script can be improved. I was thinking of two things that could be done to make it even better: first, defining both the script and the quest as dummy records in the master file so that this Cobl file will overwrite them. That would allow for the file to be mergeable again in a Bashed patch, which because of my previous changes wasn't anymore. Second, change the script so that it can be turned on/off in the Obse menu of the mod. Right now there's no way to stop the script from swapping the ingredients with Cobl versions, which some people may not like. But I don't know how to "integrate" that feature into the BBC menu.
So, what do you think? If you're interested, I'll PM you the file and you can change anything you want in it for the next update.

Edit: Started using the FPS patches, thank you so much for updating and making bundled versions of them. I can now look towards the IC without my computer starting to smoke.
Also, love the new stuff in the Arcane University. When I came back to it, it was like "What the!... oh... OHHHH!!!"