[Relz] Bananasplit's Better Cities - Thread 37 : IV

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:33 pm

http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC

Help us decide to which direction going for our next releases on Better Cities by voting to this poll. We know everyone of you who is using Better Cities is registred to TESNexus, this is why the poll is there.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1112392-relz-bananasplits-better-cities-thread-36/

"This is a translation of Bananasplit's awesome Better Cities mod, which aims at making all the cities in the game more beautiful.
All credit goes to Bananasplit for the creation of his mod, I merely translated some names and the new Guide to Skingrad."
SATU

As you know we took over the job started by Satu with Skingrad and Bravil. The following cities from Bananasplit's Better Cities were also translated:
- Imperial City Market
- Chorrol
- Anvil
- Leyawiin
Then we added Reckless' Better City Cheydinhal, Wolfslady's Better City Bruma & Better Arboretum, SilentResident's ImpeREAL, jf2ln Anvil Bay and Bravil Dock and finally OnWard Softworks (aka TheXanadu & TheLastVoice) 's Leyawiin Port.

All these files are in the same pack in http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513.
Expect new Patches/Fixes/Enhancements every Now and Then

Find the http://www.scharesoft.de/joomla/forum/showthread.php?t=18464.
Find the http://www.4shared.com/dir/RjhXQDmA/Oblivion_Japanese_Translation_.html (from version 4.6.1c), with http://www.4shared.com/file/ouD6qoOE/BBC461c__v08.html

_______________________________________________________
Technical Features:
Unique range of formID for each City/district:
Allow the merging of the esp while using TES4Gecko to never change any formID and thus banishing forever the need of clean saves between different version (started on version 4.3.0). This step was needed because of the Modularity of the mod. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
Modularity:
Each city and each IC District is offered in two ways: as a separate ESP on its own, or as part of two merged Full ESPs. This allows users to pick and choose which cities/Districts to use, so if they don't like one they can choose not to use it, or if a city or District conflicts with another mod they use, they can choose not to use it. Yet if you do want to use all cities, there's a single ESP for all, and if you want all IC Districts, there's a single ESP for all, which helps reduce the number of active ESPs in your load order if you do want every city and every District. We expand this concept into the City Defences ESPs - separate ESPs for each city, or a single Full ESP for all of them. And then again with the FPS patch ESPs as well! [Tool used: Brains!!!]
Unique worldspace in the Imperial City:
Allow to have a separate Map for the Imperial City and also to banish any conflict with any mod dealing with the Imperial Isle (Unique Landscape Imperial Isle and others) as the districts do not share their landscape edition with the Imperial Isle anymore. The drawback is that the Better Imperial City needs to be loaded last (or so) in your load order to ensure that no mod is resetting the IC to its initial worldspace. You also can't fast travel outside the city (Speed is Limited!) but you need to get out of the IC to be able to fast travel to other places outside the IC. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
Way of dealing with Doors:
We replace the doors by BC version of the same doors when we have to move them from their vanilla position. The vanilla doors are disabled and made non persistent so that their state wont be kept in your saved game and if you remove Better Cities, the vanilla doors will automatically be back at their right place without any issue. [Tool used: Brains!!!]
Customization:
Nearly each city/district has its own customization based on the users preferences on gore, FPS issue and compatibility with other mods. The customization comes in 2 different way: In Game Menu for those who use OBSE (which is recommended also to use Streamline and lower the FPS hit of Better Cities) and Manual where the user needs to enter some console commands to achieve the customization desired. [Tool used: OBSE and Brains]
BAIN & Scripted Installation:
The installation which comes in 3 archives (Mains files with the esp/esm, Main resources with the bsa archives and Update to the Resources if and when needed) is all scripted to facilitate an omod installation with Oblivion Mod Manager. In the same way, the archives are packaged to allow an easy BAIN Installation when Using Wrye Bash. [Tool Used: OBMM and Wrye Bash]
Cleaned ESP:
All our plugins are cleaned with TES4Edit to limit the conflicts with Oblivion Vanilla and Other mods. Of course this doesn't mean that others mods wont conflict with Better Cities but just that we took extreme precautions to limit those conflict as much as we could. Before reporting any conflict, make sure that Better Cities is loaded after the mod you think is conflicting. [Tool used: TES4Edit]
PiFFYed Meshes:
All our meshes are PyFFIed and further stripped of useless data to ensure an optimum performance in game. [Tool used: PyFFI]
BSA Archives:
All the main resources are then packaged into BSA archives (when this is possible) to allow an easy install/uninstall. The BSA are separated into different categories for customization purposes (B&M or vanilla Bravil textures for instance) and translation purposes (English Names on Textures and English Dialogs which can be replaced by their translated version for any other language). [OBMM BSA Creator]
An ESM (A Master):
Early on we found that some new resources were being used by more than one city. Without an ESM, this means duplication of base objects in each ESP - not very tidy! So we adopted a single ESM to contain base records for all cities and Districts to reference as needed. Dialogue also goes into the ESM, as some of our dialogue is voiced, but voice files are stored in the Data folder based upon the ESM or ESP they are used by - since BC is modular, this gets messy as the same dialogue used by Better Cities - Chorrol.esp is needed by Better Cities Full.esp. So to avoid duplication of MP3s, the dialogue was moved into the ESM, allowing the MP3s to be stored once for use by the ESM only. Also (!) we store ALL interiors in the ESM instead of in each city or District ESP which makes creation of AI packages simpler as they can safely reference interiors from multiple cities or Districts. At the same time, this allows for the possibility of other ESPs to use the BC interiors without needing to be dependent on the BC ESPs. This means more to modders than mod users of course! [Tools used: TES4Edit and Brains!!!]
Built-in compatibility with other popular mods:
(Where possible)
Better Cities is specially tweaked in some locations to enable compatibility with other conflicting mods, without the need for patches. Examples include Bravil for Lost Spires, Bruma for Heart of the Dead, and the Arboretum for Let the People Drink. Lost Spires moved the city walls and raised some land up beside the Chapel to place a new building. Better Cities also moves the city walls to match Lost Spires, and raises the land height, so that Lost Spires' new building fits in perfectly. Yet this area is NOT left empty if you don't use Lost Spires. Without Lost Spires, you'll find a burnt out house ruin on the same spot, so you won't realize the area is reserved for Lost Spires. We do this for other mods as well! [Tool used: Brains!!!]

_______________________________________________________
Requirements
Official Oblivion Patched with http://static.gamesas.com/Oblivion/Oblivion_v1.2.0416English.exe (or whichever version you need for your language.

_______________________________________________________
Video Preview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Iu5Mu22sQ by mrcrusty. Thanks!!!
You can also http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14584 to get a better quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ajw0xdSCOg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdz3nwPw7S8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSz3WoNrYTw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh4wwpDXVjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q8DQkT2TPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zBpGMyIEnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41ryK572TkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMarn0-gblQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlqGNQbsIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGGmbXUbwIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCHYT1tR7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNlqwF41bX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usNORqG7V-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrFgnwf7ems

_______________________________________________________
Compatibility Patches & Fixes
Textures mods: No textures is altered by these mods so any mod changing the textures is compatible.
Unofficial Oblivion Patch: This mod is recommended with Better Cities because it fixes many things like for instance the giant scrying balls being handled as static without havoc which comes handy around Bruma, plus many other things that should have been addressed by Bethesda.

Already Compatible
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11495 OK (Arrival at Leyawiin Harbour possible by Robert Evrae. This requires OBSE v14+)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19039 OK (created compatible by RGM)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12016: OK (special version of Bravil)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9858: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12249 (aka MMM, OOO, Fran & Warcry): OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7825: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9724: OK (source Lyre)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692: OK (version 1.3+)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15617: OK (source Greenwarden & IceMan80)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14829: OK (source SheerShaw)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7902: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11249: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6895 OK (Compatible esp created by Geniel)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17201 OK (Compatible esp created by Lametrie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14425: OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17644 OK (created compatible via quest by AlexKnight1978)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16316 OK (created compatible by Ervvyn with OBSE v0014a+ detection)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6846: OK (source Bluepie)
http://www.lostspires.com: OK
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9655: OK (source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19628 OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13303: OK integrated in Better Cities IC Market and Temple Districts.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589: OK Integrated in Better Cities.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10256: OK Integrated in Better Cities IC.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14957: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Market District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3868: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Talos Plaza.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3771: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Palace.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4620: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4650: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4651: OK Integrated into Better Cities IC Temple District.
http://kvatch.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=887: OK (Source BBC Team)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22226: OK (Source Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6779: OK (Source Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11999: OK (Source Vorians)
http://theelderscrolls.info/?go=dlfile&fileid=349: OK (BG2408)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10223 OK since version 2.4
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3172: OK Integrated into Better Cities

Minor Issues
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=991: OK except for few floating signs (source Whitestrake)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14853: OK need to disable a wine barrel with the console (source Vorians)

Incompatible
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14442: NO but Better Cities have their own City Defenses now.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11333: NO with IC Market only (source 2Cold Scorpio-RGc1)
http://www.leiawen.net/ceedee/BabSite/html/addons.html: NO with IC Market only (source wmj)
Artifacts of the Ancestors with Blood & Mud and thus with Blood & Mud Editions of Better Cities.

Users Fixes and Patches
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=4513 http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17454: OK (Patch by Roxas116)

Patches & Fixes included
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18203 OK (Patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14601: OK (BBC must be loaded after VHB to ensure highest compatibility) (Patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11778 OK (fix by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14939 OK (patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19228 OK (patch by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19058 OK (made compatible by Ismelda)
http://www.stephanewuttunee.net/tnr_tie.html: OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3027: OK (Patch by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7155: OK (Fix by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11598: OK (Patch by BluePie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7663: OK (fix by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8714: OK (Patch by Bluepie)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9357: OK (by Ismelda)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11189: OK (Patch by Vorians - get all Vorians http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13834).
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5156: OK (Patch by Vorians) Load Better Cities after Thievery in the Imperial City and the patch after Better Cities.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3849: OK (Patch by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9324: OK (Patch by Vorians)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25839: OK (Patch by Chaky)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24453: OK (Patch by Ismelda)

_______________________________________________________
FPS Tips:
Use http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=795779
You can alter your Oblivion.ini file (After a Backup) to change these settings (http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=794126&st=129#)
fLODFadeOutActorMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see NPCs in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
fLODFadeOutItemMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see items in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
fLODFadeOutObjectMultCity: Default value is 1. Change it to lower the distance you see objects in the city. Suggestion 0.4 - 0.8
(I use it at 0.8 for the 3 of them).
_______________________________________________________
Possible Issues & FAQ
You might encounter some items that are really out of place when you update your Better Cities.
I don't have any explanantion on why this happens but the only way to fix it is:
- Uncheck the Better Cities plugins (cities, fixes, patchs at additions).
- Save your game.
- Re-enable the better cities plugins and load the game.
All should be back to normal. If you do not want to loose any quest progress (there are some small quests in now), do not uncheck the master (Better Cities Resources.esm) as it holds all the quests.

Also check our http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=220413 for instant answers to most commonly asked questions.
_______________________________________________________
Bug Reports
Read the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=449239 pinned in this forum.
- Try to make Beta Comments (Tracking Down Problems With Specific Mods in the Oblivion Mods FAQ)
- Post a picture of the issue if possible (we spent more time modding than actually playing. We test the stuff we just created but we are humans and still can't miss things).
- When taking a screenshot, open your console and type in

SDT 33 (then enter)
TDT (then enter and close the console)

This will bring to the screen coordinates, cell name and so on which helps to locate where you are and where your bug was found.
Open the console and type TDT again to remove all the info from your screen.
_______________________________________________________
Projects of Interest about Cities:
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=796509
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=817511

_______________________________________________________
Alternative Mods:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589 by SilentResident

_______________________________________________________
Free Doors and Used Free Doors:

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ICMarketWestMap.jpg

Door 3 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19058.
Door 4 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3172.
Door 5 has an interior included in the ICMarket.
Door 6 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8714.
Doors 1 & 2 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ICMarketEastMap.jpg

Door 10 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14957.
Door 11 is reserved for the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7155.
Door 13 is reserved for the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13692.
Door 14 is reserved for the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13303.
Doors 7, 8, 9 & 15 are free.

http://bettercities.free.fr/2009/02/BBCMarketUpperLevelMap.jpg

Doors 16 & 19 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_AnvilMap.jpg - http://bettercities.free.fr/Maps/BC_Anvil_Map.jpg

Door 1 & 5 have an interior included in Anvil.
Doors 2, 3 & 4 are free.

http://bettercities.free.fr/Maps/BC_Bravil_B&M_Map.jpg

No Free Doors

http://bettercities.free.fr/2008/11/FD_BravilNorth.jpg

No Free Doors

http://bettercities.free.fr/2008/11/FD_BravilSouth.jpg

No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_LeyawiinMap.jpg

Door 4 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8520
No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_LeyawiinDockMap.jpg

Doors 6 & 9 have interiors included in Leyawiin.
Doors 7 & 8 are free.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_BrumaMap.jpg

No Free Doors

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_CheydinhalNorthMap.jpg
http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_CheydinhalSouthMap.jpg

No Free Doors.

http://ismeldalasombra.free.fr/2008/Oblivion/01/FD_ChorrolMap.jpg

No Free Doors
Door 3 is reserved for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24564

http://bettercities.free.fr/Maps/BC_Skingrad_Map.jpg

2 doors are free.

_______________________________________________________
Injected Records
Bananasplit's Better Cities Team will use a range of Injected ID into Oblivion.ESM which is from
0000FB00 to 0000FBFF
It is a range of 256 records which are free in Oblivion.ESM that we will use for toggle items to ensure compatibility with other mods without having to make patches or dependent files.
Please do not use any ID from this range in your own mods.

_______________________________________________________
For Translators:
My psd files of the shop signs are http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LCL06VKL

» Wed May 18, 2011 3:20 am

Version 4.7.1 fixes the omod script issue and changes a bit the wizard to allow better control on which esp to install if you choose the separated version (thanks Vargr). I also added the OBC toggle command to the OBSE menu.

You are most welcome

(And I just voted and commented in the pool too.)

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:55 pm

You are most welcome

(And I just voted and commented in the pool too.)

I don't understand, which poll you are talking about. Or is it http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC

I guess it is. And more people should need to vote too. Where do you ask? Just http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC

That wasn't too obvious, right?

» Wed May 18, 2011 3:16 am

Hold on a minute, which poll? You mean http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC?

» Tue May 17, 2011 10:25 pm

Just voted on your subtly hidden poll

I'm all for merging them, makes installation and patching less of a pain plus I wouldn't dare to not use one of the plugins anyway they're all too good

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:23 pm

Oh, having less eps's would be great if its possible!

Especially since I use the full versions all the time anyway.

» Wed May 18, 2011 2:09 am

For the benefit of the mod team, and anyone who wishes to fix the script manually; The fixes required:

Screenshot 1: "30 UL Chorrol Hinterlands\\Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland" should read "30 UL Chorrol Hinterlands\\Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp" (Missed the .esp at the end.)
Screenshot 2: "30 Ruined Tail's Tale" should read "30 Ruined Tails Tale" (No apostrophe in the folder name, or change the folder name of course - one way or the other.)
Screenshot 1: "30 UL Skingrad Outskirts\\Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts" should read "30 UL Skingrad Outskirts\\Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp" (Missed the .esp at the end again.)

I think it should be working. Do you have "The Lost Spires.esp" installed? Because that is what the script checks for.

Yes I do have it installed. I've had it installed for a while. I'll update to the newest one later tonight and see if it installs it.

» Wed May 18, 2011 12:32 am

Personally I've always used the merged ESPs, but have been contemplating using individial OBC for Anvil and Bravil, since they are port cities and I tend to forget the port is there, especially Bravil which also has the castle within the city walls and with the gate to the port in the narrow slum area. But I'm afraid that would kill my FPS and make Anvil and Bravil like The Waterfront - a place I dread because of the low FPS.

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:50 pm

Just wantedd clarification: The BC-Lost Spires Patch is only needed if using Open Better Cities, right? If i don't use the console to toggle that feature, i don't really need this patch, correct?

Also, a bug report:
An NPC added by za_bankmod.esp (Hermette Cisterzio) is duplicated... one from za_bankmod.esp, one from BetterCities Resources

» Wed May 18, 2011 6:38 am

Thanks for the Update, voted for Mergeing, I do like the thought of seperates,(even though I never use them, it's nice to have the option,) but if it makes things Simpler, it's not really a factor..

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:18 pm

Personally I've always used the merged ESPs, but have been contemplating using individial OBC for Anvil and Bravil, since they are port cities and I tend to forget the port is there, especially Bravil which also has the castle within the city walls and with the gate to the port in the narrow slum area. But I'm afraid that would kill my FPS and make Anvil and Bravil like The Waterfront - a place I dread because of the low FPS.

Well before toooooooo long, you'll have the option to kill your FPS without worry of using part BC and part OBC, as BC and OBC are being integrated into a single mod. Which is a major reason for considering abandoning the separate plugins.

Just wantedd clarification: The BC-Lost Spires Patch is only needed if using Open Better Cities, right? If i don't use the console to toggle that feature, i don't really need this patch, correct?

Also, a bug report:
An NPC added by za_bankmod.esp (Hermette Cisterzio) is duplicated... one from za_bankmod.esp, one from BetterCities Resources

With regards the Lost Spires patch, I think you are correct but I cannot quite remember.

With regards the bank, that's not a bug, that's you having a bad load order. The bank mod has been integrated into BC, so you're now using TWO versions of the bank mod, one on it's own and one as part of BC. Drop za_bankmod.esp completely, it's obsolete when using BC.

EDIT
By the way, has anyone noticed that we started http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC? I'm worried that we might have forgotten to announce it, maybe :whistling:

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:13 pm

I didn't know that about the Lost Spires patch. Guess I'm good then. Gonna download the fix when i get home.

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:24 pm

Reiterating what I said in the poll thread over on the Nexus forums (because not everyone here reads both), I've voted for keeping modularity. I can see why it's desirable to only have to support the merged mods, and thoroughly respect that desire. The problem for me is that I run a game in which I'm using BC for some cities and Open Cities Reborn for some others. I fear not having BC modular would make this impossible and I'd have to choose only BC or not BC at all. My game would be the poorer for either choice.

Mind you, if it was possible to have a merge patch in which entire cities could be "turned off", as well as switched between open and closed forms, that might solve my difficulty.

» Wed May 18, 2011 4:08 am

Interesting, I actually don't care for modularity, for me it's okay if everything's just available.
At this point I encounter a strange thing; I just made three OMOD-files and whenever I try to activate the first one in OBMM there's no menu which actually should show up. What the hell am I doing wrong?

» Wed May 18, 2011 4:20 am

Interesting, I actually don't care for modularity, for me it's okay if everything's just available.
At this point I encounter a strange thing; I just made three OMOD-files and whenever I try to activate the first one in OBMM there's no menu which actually should show up. What the hell am I doing wrong?

Which one is the "first one"? One of the resource archives doesn't contain any OMOD scripting as it is all needed.

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:30 pm

Reiterating what I said in the poll thread over on the Nexus forums (because not everyone here reads both), I've voted for keeping modularity. I can see why it's desirable to only have to support the merged mods, and thoroughly respect that desire. The problem for me is that I run a game in which I'm using BC for some cities and Open Cities Reborn for some others. I fear not having BC modular would make this impossible and I'd have to choose only BC or not BC at all. My game would be the poorer for either choice.

Mind you, if it was possible to have a merge patch in which entire cities could be "turned off", as well as switched between open and closed forms, that might solve my difficulty.

I don't think that is possible nor useful for us as it will come back to say it's a vanilla city we must not touch with quests or whatever. So just a complication to even think about the possibility.

On the other hand we are opening the cities so what is that which much appeal to you with Open Cities Reborn. Won't Open Better Cities satisfy your opening desire? Would it be impossible to consider an Open Cities Reborn patch to combine the 2? I don't know. Everything is possible...

Interesting, I actually don't care for modularity, for me it's okay if everything's just available.
At this point I encounter a strange thing; I just made three OMOD-files and whenever I try to activate the first one in OBMM there's no menu which actually should show up. What the hell am I doing wrong?

Did you import the omod data properly? Do you see a script in the omod when you try to edit/open the script? Is there a picture on your omod?

Like everyone else your opinion matters. We want to have the maximum possible votes on the http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC. So which http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC am I talking about you ask. Well, we cleverly http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC in some http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC where only the mice can find it. The mice need to http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC! http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC

Which one is the "first one"? One of the resource archives doesn't contain any OMOD scripting as it is all needed.

There is a script but it just install all.

Did you guys voted on the http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC yet? And asked your friends, your brothers and sisters, your girl and boy friends, the pope, God, Allah, Satan, Lucifer, Boudah, all of them to http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC?

» Wed May 18, 2011 7:46 am

Would it be impossible to consider an Open Cities Reborn patch to combine the 2? I don't know. Everything is possible...

Who let you out of the asylum? Back you go, quickly before people start paying attention to your crazy ideas!

» Wed May 18, 2011 5:25 am

Did you import the omod data properly? Do you see a script in the omod when you try to edit/open the script? Is there a picture on your omod?

Obviously I did it right; First of all I had an old version, so I've downloaded the newest one, everything showed up correctly and it works. (I just love the new version of the Imperial City. It's Shmexy.

Like everyone else your opinion matters. We want to have the maximum possible votes on the http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC. So which http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC am I talking about you ask. Well, we cleverly http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC in some http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC where only the mice can find it. The mice need to http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC! http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC

Yep, I've done that, too. If you'd ask me, I basically installed everything, since I want to improve the quality of the WHOLE game, not just one or two points - but everyone's got his own opinion, so I'm fine with it, no matter what comes up next.

» Wed May 18, 2011 2:46 am

On the other hand we are opening the cities so what is that which much appeal to you with Open Cities Reborn. Won't Open Better Cities satisfy your opening desire? Would it be impossible to consider an Open Cities Reborn patch to combine the 2? I don't know. Everything is possible...

Well ... the thing is, OCR Bruma, Anvil and Leyawiin change the city layouts drastically, it's not just the openness. The new layouts change the character of the cities immensely, and it is this that has the appeal for me. I suspect the word "patch" is too small for what would be required to have OCR and BC playing nicely

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:11 pm

Well ... the thing is, OCR Bruma, Anvil and Leyawiin change the city layouts drastically, it's not just the openness. The new layouts change the character of the cities immensely, and it is this that has the appeal for me. I suspect the word "patch" is too small for what would be required to have OCR and BC playing nicely

Any such patch would have to take the new BC buildings and place them into the OCR city layout in a manner which allowed them to blend in smoothly.

» Wed May 18, 2011 6:58 am

I have some feedback and a request on the patch that's included in the Better Cities archive for Thievery in the Imperial City. I'm giving the latter quest mod a try and I've noted that an inordinate number of NPCs seem to get stuck at the door to the shop added to the Market District by the mod.

I'm assuming the issue is that there was a passageway there previously, and the NPCs are too dumb to realize that it's now a wall with a door on it. It's somewhat ridiculous, as there were so many NPCs walking into the door at one point that I couldn't actually touch the door to enter the shop.

Any chance the path grid in the patch could be tweaked so that this is less likely to happen? Thanks.

» Wed May 18, 2011 12:18 am

When I rebuild the Bash patch, the contents checker gives the following info:
LVLI
? cobEatMeatRaw

Better Imperial City.esp: 001D0E

Better Imperial City.esp: 001D0F

Better Imperial City.esp: 001D10

? cobEatVeggies

Better Imperial City.esp: 00AE79

Any clues?

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:31 pm

I have some feedback and a request on the patch that's included in the Better Cities archive for Thievery in the Imperial City. I'm giving the latter quest mod a try and I've noted that an inordinate number of NPCs seem to get stuck at the door to the shop added to the Market District by the mod.

I'm assuming the issue is that there was a passageway there previously, and the NPCs are too dumb to realize that it's now a wall with a door on it. It's somewhat ridiculous, as there were so many NPCs walking into the door at one point that I couldn't actually touch the door to enter the shop.

Any chance the path grid in the patch could be tweaked so that this is less likely to happen? Thanks.

The patch doesn't touch the Market District. I'll add a toggle to the ICM ESP to disable the pathgrids if the patch is active.

When I rebuild the Bash patch, the contents checker gives the following info:
LVLI
? cobEatMeatRaw

Better Imperial City.esp: 001D0E

Better Imperial City.esp: 001D0F

Better Imperial City.esp: 001D10

? cobEatVeggies

Better Imperial City.esp: 00AE79

Any clues?

What's a Contents Checker?

» Wed May 18, 2011 1:24 am

Hey, you! Yes you, happy Better Cities-using person, whoever you are. Have you voted in http://tinyurl.com/PollBBC yet? I don't think we've announced it very well.

» Tue May 17, 2011 11:17 pm

What's a Contents Checker?

It's a function of WBash. After rebuilding the patch the results are displayed as part of the bash log.
Content Checker:

? When activated, this will check the inventory contents of containers, creatures and NPCs, and the entries of leveled lists to make sure that their entries are of valid types. E.g. it will try to ensure that leveled spell lists only contain spells and other leveled lists.

? If items/entries of incorrect type are found, then they are removed from the container/list. The patch report will list any containers/lists modified and what was removed from them.

Better Imperial City.esp is part of BBC, right?
If you need anymore info, let me know. Maybe I should ask this in the WBash forum?