[Oyuki Manson Lavey]

I encountered a similar problem with OCR Chorrol, not nearly as bad as yours, but still fairly crashy in the area nonetheless, what with RAEVWD and UL Chorrol Hinterland. My thought is that Oblivion is overloading either because there is just too much stuff in the area than either the engine or your graphics card paired with the engine is capable of rendering, or Oblivion is not finding enough memory to load everything into. Install the FPS patch for the Imperial City and see if that helps.

I bring up system specs because BBC's waterfront is obviously the most taxing area in the entire game if you have Better Cities installed. Pair that with a UL and and a bunch of new high-res textures, and extra VWD and you can bring this game to its knees easily in the area. If the FPS patch doesn't work for you, consider backing off on the RAEVWD install, as this could easily be polygon overload.

[Thomas LEON]

I encountered a similar problem with OCR Chorrol, not nearly as bad as yours, but still fairly crashy in the area nonetheless, what with RAEVWD and UL Chorrol Hinterland. My thought is that Oblivion is overloading either because there is just too much stuff in the area than either the engine or your graphics card paired with the engine is capable of rendering, or Oblivion is not finding enough memory to load everything into. Install the FPS patch for the Imperial City and see if that helps.

I bring up system specs because BBC's waterfront is obviously the most taxing area in the entire game if you have Better Cities installed. Pair that with a UL and and a bunch of new high-res textures, and extra VWD and you can bring this game to its knees easily in the area. If the FPS patch doesn't work for you, consider backing off on the RAEVWD install, as this could easily be polygon overload.

It's been a couple of years since I looked at the FPS patches; does the IC one affect all districts? And what exactly does it remove? I'd just hate to lose goodies in the other districts when they're working fine.

[N Only WhiTe girl]

You'll need to use the global FPS patch for the Imperial City which affects all the districts (unless you want to switch to only using the modular districts, but I don't recommend that). You can leave the FPS patch for the other cities out if you wish.

The FPS patches remove things like clutter or extra eye-candy (in the case of the waterfront, lots of barrels, a couple generic ships with no interiors, some tombstones, and perhaps a couple cranes). NPCs and buildings are not removed.

[Auguste Bartholdi]

I'll probably try that then if all else fails. I did manage to walk around the WF for a while by disabling the IC .esp for BC; the old non-BC worked fine, so I made a new save, turned back on BC-IC, and WF loaded up fine (though it did crash a couple of minutes later). Unfortunately, trying to go through the tunnel or fast traveling to the area like how I mentioned before still resulted in the respective CTD scenarios I mentioned before. I'll probably end up dialing back RAEVWD while I'm at it, too; I've had issues with my DistantLOD landmasses anyways, so a few type of objects in certain places don't even appear properly until up close (see the first page of the current RAEVWD thread for more on that if you're curious).

Given this experience, it may be a good idea to add some additional options for disabling certain clutter in IC-Waterfront only, much like the wine barrels option for the market. Might be a nice compromise over the FPS patch so one wouldn't lose the eye candy in other districts that tend to run better. But I don't know if that would be easy to do. :shrug:

[Your Mum]

2Cold Scorpio & Thomas,

I had this problem of the IC WF a year ago & I fixed it by dropping Blood & Mud (after dropping several other mods that tickle the IC WF). Whether the problem was that particular ship or just that it was the tipping point for that area, I don't know. A pity there isn't a version of Blood & Mud that minimizes the appearances of the ship, it seems to be some what problematic. Hope this helps.

[NO suckers In Here]

2Cold Scorpio & Thomas,

I had this problem of the IC WF a year ago & I fixed it by dropping Blood & Mud (after dropping several other mods that tickle the IC WF). Whether the problem was that particular ship or just that it was the tipping point for that area, I don't know. A pity there isn't a version of Blood & Mud that minimizes the appearances of the ship, it seems to be some what problematic. Hope this helps.

Understandable, but Scorpio isn't using Blood & Mud. You can tell because BBC uses a slightly different name for the Unified cities plugin if you are using the B&M edition. Ergo my suspicion remains that Scorpio is having polygon overload problems.

[Elisabete Gaspar]

2Cold Scorpio & Thomas,

I had this problem of the IC WF a year ago & I fixed it by dropping Blood & Mud (after dropping several other mods that tickle the IC WF). Whether the problem was that particular ship or just that it was the tipping point for that area, I don't know. A pity there isn't a version of Blood & Mud that minimizes the appearances of the ship, it seems to be some what problematic. Hope this helps.

Right now, I'm going to drop in the FPS patch and see if that helps. If it does, I figure I'll re-install BC with the seperate IC districts so that I can use the FPS patch for only the Waterfront.

Which brings up a question: in the future, would it be possible to have the district-specific FPS patches work with the combined-districts BC-IC.esp? It would be useful for cases like this to help keep load orders shorter without having to lose visuals in areas where performance is fine. Especially considering BC might drop the separate city and IC District plugins (which I support; I've always used them all anyways). Just food for thought, I suppose.

[Lucky Girl]

Better Imperial City version 4.9.0 is giving me a consistent crash on save game load. I followed your instructions for updating from an earlier version to the letter.

[Teghan Harris]

Right now, I'm going to drop in the FPS patch and see if that helps. If it does, I figure I'll re-install BC with the seperate IC districts so that I can use the FPS patch for only the Waterfront.

Which brings up a question: in the future, would it be possible to have the district-specific FPS patches work with the combined-districts BC-IC.esp? It would be useful for cases like this to help keep load orders shorter without having to lose visuals in areas where performance is fine. Especially considering BC might drop the separate city and IC District plugins (which I support; I've always used them all anyways). Just food for thought, I suppose.

That is easy to do if you have Wrye Bash: Just put the separate FPS patch for the district you want in your load order, then change their master to target the "Better Imperial City.esp" instead of the district esp.

[Cat]

I was getting a Couple of Repeatable crashes,(one at the load doors to Bruma) I noticed a Printer Driver, (belive it was an auto Update program) closed that out, and seems to be fine, might be a thought... :shrug:

[Add Me]

@Brozly
Crashing when entering Bruma is also fairly common if you were wearing mod content (or are a custom race) when your statue was made. Simply, if you remove the mod resource, the game will crash when it tries to load your statue because it can't find the resource its supposed to wear. However, you said you fixed it by shutting down an auto-update for a printer driver? That made me chuckle... sometimes it's the stupidest thing. :rolleyes:

Better Imperial City version 4.9.0 is giving me a consistent crash on save game load. I followed your instructions for updating from an earlier version to the letter.

Load Order? Did the crash persist when you rolled back?

[Emma Louise Adams]

That is easy to do if you have Wrye Bash: Just put the separate FPS patch for the district you want in your load order, then change their master to target the "Better Imperial City.esp" instead of the district esp.

Thanks. I had thought of doing that, but was unsure if there was a technical reason it may not work. ^_^ I'll do that as soon as I do one last test concerning BC/Crate Manor compatibility; using the FPS patch allowed me to enter the Waterfront from another cell (in this case, the Crate Manor itself; I had gone through the back door to get the Waterfront entrance box to respawn), so I'm going to turn off the FPS patch real fast, load up my game, and make sure there's not another box sitting on top of it. Full compatibility report will be in my next post so that you can add it to the OP and such.

[Anna Kyselova]

Thanks. I had thought of doing that, but was unsure if there was a technical reason it may not work. ^_^ I'll do that as soon as I do one last test concerning BC/Crate Manor compatibility; using the FPS patch allowed me to enter the Waterfront from another cell (in this case, the Crate Manor itself; I had gone through the back door to get the Waterfront entrance box to respawn), so I'm going to turn off the FPS patch real fast, load up my game, and make sure there's not another box sitting on top of it. Full compatibility report will be in my next post so that you can add it to the OP and such.

You could also try temporarily disabling your DistantLOD for the duration of the test to ease the strain on your PC.

[Skrapp Stephens]

You could also try temporarily disabling your DistantLOD for the duration of the test to ease the strain on your PC.

Not a bad idea, but it shouldn't necessary. Using a save I made after loading into the area with the FPS patch on, I just flipped it off and was able to load back into the same spot long enough to see what I needed to see and fire off a screenshot. Only one more thing left to try before I'm done with it (just a small load order change). But thanks anyways.

[Jose ordaz]

Load Order? Did the crash persist when you rolled back?

The previous versions ran flawlessly. I did not think to hold onto the old versions, so I can't roll it back. Here's my load order:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.2]
02 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm [Version 4.5bSI]
03 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm [Version 4.5bSI]
04 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.73]
05 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34]
06 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]
07 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB3]
08 Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
09 Progress.esm [Version 2.2]
0A CustomSpellIcons.esm
0B HorseCombatMaster.esm
0C Cobl Races TNR.esp [Version 1.53]
0D Cobl Races TNR SI.esp [Version 1.53]
0E Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.3.3]
0F Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
10 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
11 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
12 MOBS SI.esp [Version 1.2.2a]
13 MOBS SI Optional Combat Settings.esp [Version 1.2.2a]
** Oblivion Vwalk UOS.esp
** DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk UOS.esp
** DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk DG_DS UOS.esp
14 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
15 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
16 Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]
17 FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]
18 Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp [Version 2.1]
19 Ls More Butterflies and Fireflies Not In Interiors 5.0 Quarter.esp [Version 5.0]
1A All Natural.esp [Version 1.2]
1B All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.2]
1C Immersive Interiors.esp [Version 0.7]
1D Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp [Version 0.7]
1E PTAutumnTrees.esp
1F HAZdynamicSnow.esp
20 Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp
21 Better Lava by elveon.esp [Version 1.0]
++ Symphony of Violence.esp [Version 0.5]
22 MIS Low Wind.esp
23 MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp [Version Edited]
24 Atmospheric Oblivion.esp
25 Side's EAX Control.esp [Version 1.0]
++ Louder Nirnroot Sound.esp [Version 1.0]
26 Rainbows.esp [Version 3.0]
27 All Natural - Real Lights.esp [Version 1.2]
28 WindowLightingSystem.esp
29 Days&Months.esp [Version 1.0]
2A diversegrasses.esp [Version 0.6]
2B HUDI.esp [Version 1.05]
2C ImprovedSigns.esp
2D P-Froggys First Person Body.esp [Version 1.0]
2E PTFallingStars.esp [Version 1.0]
2F RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp [Version 1.6.1]
30 RoadSigns.esp
31 Willful Resistance.esp [Version 4.0]
32 Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 5.1]
33 Display Stats.esp [Version 1.3.1]
34 Enhanced Seasons.esp [Version 1.3.1]
35 FormID Finder4.esp
36 Get Wet.esp [Version 1.1b]
37 MotionBlur.esp
38 Scathe.esp [Version 0.1]
39 VipCxj_RadarSystem.esp
3A Dynamic Map.esp [Version 1.0.1]
3B Map Marker Overhaul.esp [Version 3.8]
3C DLCHorseArmor.esp
3D DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - DLCHorseArmor+Slofs .esp [Version 0.91]
++ MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp [Version 4.0]
3E ClassyClothingCompendium.esp [Version 1.0]
3F Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.73]
40 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
41 Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp [Version 1.1]
42 FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9]
43 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp [Version 1.09]
44 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB5]
45 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.34]
++ OOO-Water_Weeds.esp [Version 1.33]
++ VA_BetterGold.esp [Version 2.0]
46 Better Eyja.esp
47 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul Vwalk.esp
48 RealitySpectreStars2HeavenBetterPotionsOOOEffects.esp
49 OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp [Version 1.72]
4A OBSE-Storms & Sound SI.esp [Version 3.0]
4B FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
4C FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
4D Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
4E Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3f]
4F wd purse of wonders.esp
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
50 FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
** Fransfemale.esp
++ MMM-Cobl.esp [Version 1.73]
** EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp
51 Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
++ Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp
52 Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp
53 Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp
** Kvatch Rebuilt Vwalk.esp
++ KvatchRankFix.esp
54 LetThePeopleDrink.esp [Version 2.5]
55 24HrArenaAliveV2.esp
56 BrumaMGRestored.esp [Version 1.02]
57 Knights.esp
58 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.1]
** Knights Vwalk UOP.esp
++ FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
59 Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.1]
5A ANB_Item_Switchers.esp
5B BlackScreenSneakFix.esp [Version 1.0]
5C HUD Status Bars.esp [Version 3.0]
5D Brighter Torches.esp [Version 1.4.0]
++ FewerOBGatesNOCLOSE.esp
5E Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp [Version 1.2]
5F P1DkeyChain.esp [Version 5.00]
** PyFFI-Optimized Vanilla Meshes Patch.esp
++ Enhanced Vegetation [100%].esp
60 Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp [Version 3.2.0]
61 Wayshrines Improved.esp
62 Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp [Version 1.0]
63 WPHealthRegen.esp [Version 1.0]
64 RealisticHealth.esp
65 Kyoma's Spell Renamer.esp [Version 3.0.1]
66 EnchantmentRestore.esp
67 attack and hide easier v2.1.esp [Version 2.1]
68 Enhanced Grabbing.esp [Version 0.5]
69 DRSplatter.esp
6A kuerteeAttributeAndSkillBasedDamageModifiers.esp
6B Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp
6C Smarter Mercantile Leveling - Multi.esp [Version 1.65]
6D nGCD.esp
6E nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp
++ nGCD Skeleton Key.esp
6F Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp
70 Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.esp
71 bgBalancingEVCore.esp [Version 10.52EV-D]
72 Birthsigns Expanded.esp [Version 3.2a.]
++ Slof's Oblivion Better Beasts.esp
73 bgMagicEV.esp [Version 1.7EV]
74 bgMagicEV Vwalk.esp
++ bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp [Version 1.68EV]
++ bgMagicEVStartspells.esp [Version 1.68EV]
75 bgMagicBonus.esp [Version 1.7EV]
++ bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp [Version 1.68EV]
76 bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp [Version 1.68EV]
++ bgBalancingEVOptionalBetterRedguards.esp
++ bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp [Version 10.]
77 bgBalancingOptionalNPCDiversityKvatchRebuilt, for Wrye Bash.esp [Version 9.0EV-D]
78 bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp [Version 10.51EV-D]
++ bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]
79 bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp [Version 10.5EV-D]
7A bgIntegrationEV.esp [Version 0.993]
7B ArgonianFeets.esp
7C MRP - Loading area.esp
++ BetterExplosions.esp [Version 1.0]
** bgMagicEVShader.esp [Version 1.7EV]
++ Faction Rank Fix.esp [Version 1.1]
7D MiniMap.esp
7E DeadlyReflex 6 - Combat Moves.esp
++ Script Effect Icon Replacer and Sound Disabler.esp [Version 1.0]
++ CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp
** All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp [Version 1.2]
7F Bashed Patch, 0.esp
----> MISSING MASTER: Better Cities Resources.esm
----> MISSING MASTER: Better Cities Full.esp
80 Streamline 3.1.esp

Better Cities is not active at this moment, but they would normally load where BOSS places them -- near the end of the order.

And I haven't rebuilt my BP since I deactivated BC.

[BlackaneseB]

Ok, compatibility report for http://princessstomper.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/princess-crate-manor/: It's compatible...kinda.

If using BC Waterfront or BC Imperial City Full with no FPS patch, it is incompatible*. BC-added crates cover up the Manor entrance crate. I tested this with both Crate Manor loading before BC and after it; the result is the same. http://www.4shared.com/photo/ws7mdgvz/CM-NoFPSPatch.html
However, if you are using either the BC-IC Full FPS patch, the entrance crate is accessable...but it floats in the air. I assume this would be the same with the Waterfront-only FPS patch (I didn't go back and test it). http://www.4shared.com/photo/Qji1Pi_c/CM_FPSPatch.html If you don't mind the crate floating, it works fine. Again, I tested this with both Crate Manor loading before BC and after it; the result is the same.

* Note: the house can still be used even without the FPS patch; there is an alternate entrance next to the door to the Shivering Isles; it acts as the house's back door. While I was unable to test this due to complications listed before, I assume you could exit the house by the front door to the Waterfront; you just wouldn't be able to re-enter via the Waterfront entrance unless using one of the FPS patches. If you wanted to make it completely compatible with BC, it looks like all that would need to be done is to move the stack of BC-added crates over a few feet (whether this would fix the floating Crate Manor entrance, I do not know, but I don't think it floats when BC isn't installed). As far as load order goes, it doesn't seem to matter, so I just had it load before BC (right below Princess Stomper's Imperial City Apartment, to be exact). I'll update the BOSS thread with my findings tomorrow, since Princess Crate Manor is an unrecognized mod.

And with that I'm done, unless you want me to test something else (I'm here to help!). Also, using the FPS patch for the Waterfront seems to have fixed my earlier issues, but more playing will be required to know for sure. ^_^

[Robyn Howlett]

And with that I'm done, unless you want me to test something else (I'm here to help!). Also, using the FPS patch for the Waterfront seems to have fixed my earlier issues, but more playing will be required to know for sure. ^_^

Then your computer is overloaded with high-memory mods like BC and RAEVWD. Ensure you have Streamline set up correctly, install Oblivion Stutter Removal and Oblivion Crash Prevention System. Consider removing any texture replacer mods like QTP3 and reducing graphics settings in-game. If you have Anti-Aliasing enabled either in-game or outside of the game by your graphics card software, then disable it, AA can eat around 40fps out of the game all on its own (with no mods loaded at all).

[Ashley Campos]

I found that clean saving without the ESM fixes the crash I was getting.

[Ebony Lawson]

Then your computer is overloaded with high-memory mods like BC and RAEVWD. Ensure you have Streamline set up correctly, install Oblivion Stutter Removal and Oblivion Crash Prevention System. Consider removing any texture replacer mods like QTP3 and reducing graphics settings in-game. If you have Anti-Aliasing enabled either in-game or outside of the game by your graphics card software, then disable it, AA can eat around 40fps out of the game all on its own (with no mods loaded at all).

I tend to compensate by turning off the Distant LOD when I enter the Waterfront. Not having it there is quite helpful, getting me about 8 to 10 more FPS and reducing overload crashes, as well. Still dealing with the AI overload in the area, though, so I'm going to go ahead and add another 5 slots for active actors in my Bashed Patch, see if that helps a bit.

[Tina Tupou]

hey guys, I have a problem that I'm not sure if its caused by better cities or unique landscapes (sorry if this has been asked already).

When the npc's leave the imperial city and walk toward weye, they walk straight. But the road has been changed and now zig-zags; causing the npcs to fall to their deaths. Is there any way to save the poor stupid npc's?

Thanks...

[Shelby McDonald]

That's a Unique Landscapes issue, Better Cities does not touch anything pathgrid related on the Imperial Isle save the Waterfront.

Repost with your load order in the UL thread, because you probably have another mod that is overwriting Imperial Isle's pathgrids.

[Jeff Turner]

I found that clean saving without the ESM fixes the crash I was getting.

That is most strange, I don't recall making any changes to the ESM that might require a clean save before updating, and so far nobody else has reported having to do this.

[sam smith]

I tend to compensate by turning off the Distant LOD when I enter the Waterfront. Not having it there is quite helpful, getting me about 8 to 10 more FPS and reducing overload crashes, as well.

How do you do that? Is there a console command I'm not aware of? It coupled with the FPS patch for the WF would likely be enough. I'd say the FPS patch the crashes in the area by 2/3rds or so, so a nice start.

The odd thing about these crashes is that they don't seem to be caused by hardware limitations from what I can tell. The max VRAM usage I've seen in the area is 855 MBs or so, and my GTX 460 has 1GB, so that ought to have a bit more headroom left. RAM usage is harder to check consistantly, but theh ighest I've seen it was 1.5GBs, and I have 4GB of RAM w/ Oblivion set with LAA. I agree, I'm pretty sure it's overload, but the numbers aren't *quite* matching up. Even more interestingly, I never had this issue in the WF before, and I used to push Oblivion the same or harder back when I had a weaker graphics card (an old 8800GT I finally retired a couple of months ago), and OSR didn't exist back then (or had *just* come out; that happened towards the end of my last playthrough). Of course, perhaps the WF had more added to it in the last 18 months or so since I last played Oblivion with BC installed. No matter, I seem to have it mostly under control with only some loss of visual quality to the Waterfront and without sacrificing BC features or visual fidelity anywhere else (where everything works fine so far). I'll probably be dropping my uGridDistantCount a couple of notches too (I had been meaning to for a while; I didn't really need it, but I figured they could match my clear weather fog settings a bit better to free up some possible performance gains).

Though for kicks and comparisons, maybe I'll go by Anvil Bay; that area used to actually be harder on my system than the WF, especially back when I had Castle Almgard, Sousmarin Manor, UL-Lost Coast, and BC all installed (ah, memories of beta testing Almgard's compatibility patch with the other three...lots and lots (and lots!) of swimming looking for land tears...:shocking:). That oughta be fun.

[Greg Cavaliere]

In the video settings, turn the option for Distant Land off. This will automatically turn Distant Trees and Distant Buildings off, too. Therefore, the Distant LOD has been disabled completely.

[Klaire]

In the video settings, turn the option for Distant Land off. This will automatically turn Distant Trees and Distant Buildings off, too. Therefore, the Distant LOD has been disabled completely.

Oh, right. :facepalm: One of those things I forgot about because I never change it.