I was just thinking that one thing that would really and add to the Nordic setting would be the addition of bar fights. The idea came to me while I was trying to think of the back story for my character (how they'd end up in jail) and how it would be really cool to walk into a tavern and right into the middle of a brawl. It would really reinforce the rugged environment and culture of the region too. This is something I've wanted from a game for a long time, and so far I've had little luck. Punching someone in a tavern in Oblivion simply resulted in everyone else fleeing and the guards swiftly arriving to fine me for the assault. In Red Dead Redemption, a game in which I would have thought bar fights would be a guarantee, it wasn't really possible to get much more than a lackluster one on one fistfight going. So, in Skyrim, where the bars are sure to be full of burly and shady characters, I'd love to finally see some real bar fights in a game. Of course there are a few issues which would need to be addressed. It would need to be possible to knock people out without killing them, guards would have to fine NPC's and haul them off to jail instead of slaughtering them for their criminal acts, and hopefully the guards wouldn't show up until the fight is close to spilling out onto the streets. Most of these problems would be solved by changes that would benefit many other aspects of the game though. So, anyone else hoping for bar fights, or have any ideas for their implementation? I think this could be something really cool both as an event the player can initiate and a dynamic event.

As much as I'd like to see a broken bottle wedged firmly into someone's groin, I don't know why this would have to be limited to bars. Can't you fight anywhere?

Well the Oblivion bar fights mod was amazing! So I do hope there is some sort of bar fights...even if its like "The Witcher" where fights are in the backroom of a Inn.

Well, bar fights would certainly add to the experience, and it would be funny if they were started by messing with another guy's girl. Or just by a drunk guy that gets upset over something you say.

The GI article already suggests that brawls between citizens are possible with Radiant Story (the specific example being two people fighting over who gets to take an item you dropped home with them), so I can't see why bar brawls wouldn't be possible.

Of course there will be all sorts of fighting, but when I say bar brawls, I mean a room full of angry drunk men hitting each other with anything on hand. This isn't an event that will occur in a believable fashion if it isn't programmed into the game. Oblivion had fighting, but that didn't make this kind of scenario possible in vanilla, it took mods. It's a specific semi-scripted event that I feel would add to the game.

Mead soaked bar fights in taverns would be great. Not sure how'd it'd be implemented though. When a brawl break outs are you somehow restricted to bare fists? Surely if weapons get involved multiple deaths are bound to happen. Perhaps if the brawl is kept to fists only the guards won't get involved but if the axe comes out and the skulls go crunch...
I don't think I'd want it to become some sort of minigame I'd rather it was flowing gameplay but not sure how'd they go about implementing them. Either restrict thr fight to fists or have weapons involved and someone's bound to end up with the red stuff on the outside instead of the inside.
Would be cool for a big fight to break out and spill into the street.

EDIT: Unless you have to hand your weapons in at the door like you do in the casinos in New Vegas. Not sure I'd like that though, might not feel right in the context of a Nord town, don't know. Would solve the above weapon issue and make sure fights are restricted to fists without some sort of awkward unable to equip weapons mechanic.

They should make hand-to-hand 'abilities' or 'settings'. Like LTL Unarmed (Less Then Lethal) for when you don't want to kill someone. That would be nice, because trying to play a Martial Artist (or puglist since i can't recall anything beyond punching) was kinda pointless since you had to beat someone until they fell unconcious then continue to beat them while their stamina was gone before they would die. That was kinda lame. I hope Bethesda takes that into account and does something about it.

Didn't they mention something about npcs mabe challenging you to a duel in public?
I remember reading that somewhere and if so then I would hope people would want to fight in bars

The first Bosmer flying through the window was thrown by me, followed by the words "Seen any elves? Hahahaha"

Ha ha that's classic. Bosmer tossing through windows MUST be in the game.

It would surely spice up any barfly-characters and give alcoholism a purpose. Being the Terror of the Local Inn is much more epic than being the savior of the world. Funnier anyway...

If someone feals it isn't fun and pulls an axe people (execpt for the really drunk or the really brave) would scream and run, and if an axe is actually swung thats when the guards will do more than just give you a small fine or chop of a finger...
if anyone losses so and so much health they should either run, pass out, keep fighting 'till dying, call the guards (damn whiny [CENSOREDS]), or go angry and pull their weapon which might lead to a sober archer who stayed out of the fight taking his/her life before someone gets hurt, the guards entering the building and by force dragging the screaming mess out, a not-sober and quite drunk archer pullinghis arrow but hitting a guy standing next to the target (causing the guards to innterviene), or people running away...

my chars backstory involves a mine, a barfight, a poison, a betrayel, a minor civil war, a prison, a release, a catastrophy (the red year), an attack, a betrayel, a capture, torture, an escape, a last boat to skyrim, a barfight, an acident, a death, getting pulled to jail with a drunken archer...

As long as my character can take his beer to the rafters and watch from above...GREAT! Oh, and then he'll take his chaotic greedy butt back down to the floor and gather up all the loose change

Good point. I figured in the basic fight, every character would stick to their fists and things would only really escalate if the player or a particularly aggressive NPC decides to draw a weapon? And perhaps once a character draws a weapon, some less aggressive characters would flee and others would focus on subduing the armed fighters, as they would obviously become the biggest threat. And the suggestion that guards would not come or at least would be slow to respond to a fist fight seems sensible to me.

Edit: Looks like someone already said most of this above while I was typing.


:P

Good idea, the level and escalation of the violence depends on the actions of the player. If the player draws a sword then his opponent draws a sword otherwise the fight is restricted to fists and the guards only get involved when weapons and limb chopping occurs (or maybe if an official to the death challenge is issued?). Well I guess that solves that that then.

Yeah that sounds awesome. Additionally this code could be used for the world of Skyrim in general.

Imagine you are off adventuring and you see a small day camp up ahead in the wilderness with a man tending to a fire. His first gut reaction, if he doesn't recognize you (Hero of Kvatch!), should be to defend himself. He should not be immediately hostile, unless that is his nature. Rather he should be on guard and wait for the PC's move. If the PC is unarmed, or without weapons drawn, they should not react violently.

Sounds like a great tech.

Or guards only get involved if anything to violent ocuers... I'm really hoping for some bad-aiming-drunken-archers like I exsplained in my post... but (as I said in my post too) some npcs should go weapon if they are to badly beaten... or if their friends are badly beaten (or killed)... or if they have an arguement with another n/pc... or if another npc draws a weapon (like our bad-aiming-drunken-archers)...

I've read somewhere (a gaming site article I think not GI or a podcast) which describes something similar. If I remember correctly bandits might not immediatley attack but will shout or talk to you first so your example above and the tavern fight stuff may well be in the game, or an example of it, we'll have to see how far they've taken it.

EDIT: @ NeverComingBack, I re-read your post and yeah a drunken archer missing his target and hitting an innocent bystander would be cool. A Bosmer tries to get involved but is a bit typsy. Misses the Dunmer fighting the Breton and hits a man mountain of a Nord, cue Bosmer being thrown through a window.

well if it takes a leaf from oblivions book as soon as a fight starts someone will run away and everyone will be trying to kill them, so it'll end up as some huge massacre in the middle of the street with the guards ending up fighting each other for no reason what so ever..

all because someone spilt your ale

Beware the Wood elf assassin...

I locked the doors in Oblivion with the cheat at night when everyone was in the king and Queen Tavern, used demoralize or whatever one makes em' go crazy, and hell broke loose.

Did you ever come across 2 Imperial foresters (I think that's what they're called) near Bruma that have a looooong battle to the death with bows? Hopefully these things will be a minimum in Skyrim.

Yes, and not only was it stupid fun to watch, I always got their armor when one died.

Yeah... I, a 9000bounty criminal could stand right next to 'em and as soon as one of thems dead I'll use a poisoned arrow to finish the other...