In Oblivion, there was not a way to finish the game with a good ammount of diplomacy/talking/agreements. Therefore, someone who selected to play as a bard he would be dissapointed.




There was a good rpg back in 2005 which was named Vampire Masquerades : Bloodlines. The game featured full combat or full diplomacy based on your choices of skills. Manipulate, agreements, mind-drive people etc.
Now before you jump on me 'THIS IS NOT VAMPIRES MASQUERADES' etc, I am just using an example. The perfect example, I believe.


So, are there any of you enjoying going the diplomacy way? Or are you all fighters? I myself enjoy using poisoned daggers as an assassin but I always wanted to try and play Oblivion with a diplomat imperial.

Alduin is a god whose purpose (at the moment) is to destroy the world, I don't think he is going to sit down and be convinced to spare us.

I can't imagine smoothtalking a dragon but I'm hoping there will be more quests with multiple ways to complete them including sneaking or talking for less violent characters.

That's your best excuse? Mehrunes Dagon obviously was the same. That does not mean there are not like 100 more quests who do not involve the main story line. Also, there will obviously be minions and humans who take part on Alduin's plans.

It's "Vampire: The Masquerade-Bloodlines"

Funny you mention Vampire, because even in that game there were a lot of points where you couldn't use diplomacy especially at the end...

You said complete the whole game, I was incorrect in assuming the main quest was, in fact, apart of the game?

Combat is a core mechanic, it would be stupid if you could avoid it 100%.

The main quest is DLC now, didn't you hear?

Good amount is not the whole game.

My kind of thread. Yes you can't complete the main plot with bardic skills, but thieves have the same problem, and that is basically a third of builds. I don't think there are going to be too many opportunities to get backstabs on Alduin the World eater. You are always going to have to cast spells or get in a straight up fight.
The rest of the game however, and going by what we have been told, that's 270 hours, should really have chances to bluff, brown nose and outright lie to achieve your ends. Seems to make sense to me that the College of Bards, being a respected institution, could be used as a power broker between the holds, and there is plenty of role play value with that alone. Any rpg worth it's salt should have different means to complete at least some quests, and speechcraft, though not tending to be that much use in games, is obviously very important IRL. Imho we need a third stock quest type, fetch, kill, convince.

This is interesting but raises some strange issues. Lets see, Y quest giver tells you that your contract is to kill, by any means, target X.

Warrior/Assassin -> Kill the X Target yourself.
Bard -> Pay someone to do it, or convince someone.
Thief -> ?

Even if Alduin isn't going to listen to your reasoning, that doesn't mean that others wouldn't. Double negative... tricky.
I mean, we don't know yet what the strength of the Dragonborn is, apart from getting boons from slaying dragons. Most Dragonborns we've met so far have in fact been charismatic leaders, and not fighters. They could easily make a story with the same premise, but the outcome that the Dragonborn stops the civil war and rallies the people to fight for their world. You know, instead of fighting Alduin alone in his lair or whatever, you could start a full-scale war against him.

Maybe you'd still have to face him in person at the end, but it would be nice if a diplomatic/charismatic leader protagonist could even the odds a bit with his skills.

But I don't think it's gonna happen.

XIII - a bard in the way you're thinking of is basically part of the "thief" archetype. They do have to provide ways for each of the three main builds, but a thief in the sense that all he ever does is steal things is not one of them. The thief is the person who relies on his wits to get what he wants. In the case of a quest "go and kill X", that would mean hiring an assassin, or relying on your intelligence and your stealth to lay a trap somewhere from which he can't escape. A thief isn't necessarily a pacifist.

The Theif steals and important artifact hindering Alduins return.

The Mage gains acces to powerful magicks to seal Alduin away at great sacrific.

The Warrior fights Alduin using all his might and power within.

The Bard brings compulsion to those that Serve the World eater and through his conviction sways them that their actions are the wrong kind of actions.

On the other hand, we didn't exactly go toe-to-toe in mortal combat with Mehrunes Dagon. Obviously we're not going to defeat Alduin by fighting. So how? Is it entirely beyond the wit of Bethesda's writers for us to use diplomacy or trickery to unlock whatever bizarre Deus ex Machina they have lined up?

Maybe we could convince the Arch-priest of Almalexia to loan us the Mystical Bauble of Balderdash, rather than fight a hundred rabid cultists. Or we could bribe the second footman to replace the Doomsword of Dread with a cunning fake, and tell Canon the Librarian that by slaughtering his way through the Dungeons of Despair and driving the Doomsword in the Alter of Alduin he will rule all of Tamriel - when really he'll be consumed in the Chasm of Codswallop along with Alduin.

Really, when the method of defeating a World Eating Big Bad is going to be nonsense anyway, there's no reason there shouldn't be some way of doing it with dialogue only - except, of course, that the vast majority of Bethesda's customers play these games for the combat or stealth, and there aren't enough dedicated pvssyrers among us for them to go to the effort of really doing a proper job of the dialogue only route.

More like, and obviously only for certain quests :
Warrior-kill target
Bard-convince hirer that a sufficient 'education as to certain realities' will suffice to end target's irksome nature, then 'educate' target
Thief-whichever of the above suits your temperament

Especially useful for 'fetch from person' quests "I've been hired to kill you and get your sword. It isn't really yours now is it. There's a way we can can clear this all up satisfactorily for all involved, without the need for too much spilt claret."

One thing I keep saying I hope for, is that the speechcraft perks effectively return streetwise and ettiquette as separate areas of skill. Of course a bard would need the ettiquette, with streetwise an appealing option.

Would be nice.. but these games always seem to come down to "powerful weapon and powerful skill with weapon and magic." I'd love to have backstab multipliers for thieves.. use a dagger as my main weapons. But.. since they stuck all bladed weapons in one category that basically means there will be no gains for using a dagger like weapon. I'll probably end up having to be a thief with two long swords and a powerful magic spell to defeat the boss. I'm going to try my hardest to stick to a single thief like character build and see how far I can actually get with a dagger. I doubt it will be long before I give up.

This is off-topic but i'll say it here to save you time . Daggers are one handed but they are governed by 'Stealth'. You gain different perks for daggers and different for swords.

It would be hilarious if you could convince alduin not to eat the world through diplomacy.

DB "Alduin, hear me out"
Alduin " You must be desperate if you're trying words!"
DB "No...but instead of resorting to barberism, why don't we discuss our issues?"
Alduin "...... what issues? I am going devour this world. Nothing you could say will make it otherwise!"
DB "Maybe...I can"
Alduin ".....Really?, you've become so arrogant that you can dissuade me. Ha ha ha ha"
*Alduin Magics a table out of nowhere and puts on a monicle and top hat*(don't ask)
"Speak then, dragon child....why shouldn't I destroy you pitiful mortals?"
DB "Well you see....think of how much pain you'll be in when you have to poop it out! I mean all the other gods will not want to go near you, think of the smell and the expression on your face when you're pooping. They'll laugh at you for it, you don't want that do you?"
*Alduin blinks completley bewildered*
DB "So, you'll reconsider? and we'll have a party instead!" *puts on a party hat and eats a carrot*(the carrots are weightless =O)
*Alduin then devours the world*

Moral of the story:
Nords = Bad negotiators.

Hahahaha, the Nord would probably take out beer, drink it, let it flow through beard and throw the axe to Alduin's head. No words.

You want diplomatic endings? Go play Fallout, each of those games had a fight where you could always talk your way out of the fight.

You want to just beat the hell out of the final bad guy like a conventional video game? Go play The Elder Scrolls, where you let your fists/swords/axes/spears(jk)/spells/bows/hammers do the talking.

I honestly can't believe that someone who bought a game where you have to save Nirn from Oblivion, the games equivalent to hell, expected that they could talk their way out of a demonic siege. You sir, should try and get someone to develop a video game based on Henry Kissinger.

You think you'll be fighting Alduin one on one? lawl.......why do you think the Leaper King and Shor decided to HIDE creation instead of fighting him head on? and they are GODS.......

hope at least the diplomatic options are rewarding.

I do enjoy the occasional mind games every now and then not everything has to be kill killkilllikiliklll to be fun.

Becuase you totally destroyed Mehrunes Dagon at Oblivion with your weapon/spells, amirite or amirite? Fallout had diplomatic ways because people requested it, and they requested it ALOT, since it's a game mechanic, to satisfy their thirst for an alternative way of playing the game.

Also for your lore knowledge, Daedric realms are nowhere near the fictional hell you read in religious books.

:nope:

:cold:

crap time to move to another realm then, see yah losers hahah bliviongate: