K, for all you people complaining about being one-shot-incaped to the body by a double buffed barnett while being a medium, a medium can be one shotted to the body if the have NO BUFFS. all you need is to have one buff to survive it. im sorry, but if you arent running battle hardened, you really need to be. the barnett is not op. not in the least bit. and to all you guys using lights, you knew what you were trading when you picked it. deal with it, or go medium. headshots can tear any class up. except for a buffed heavy, or a fully buffed medium. they are hard to get, just keep moving and you should be fine.

thank you

No the barnett is not fine. It's one hit kill AND lacks any sort of travel time, bullet drop, scope sway etc. It is a joke to use. Either take out the one hit kill or actually design it to require some element of skill.

The fact that people shouldnt be stupid enough to stop moving is all the skill they should have to compensate for. If your standin around like a durp, its your fault when he blows you away.

The only thing i would ever change is the way engineer double buff works. I think the 30% should go to OTHER people, and you can only app the first to your self... Maybe get more XP for buffing others as well when you have it, like 100 in stead of 75 just to persuade people to still pick it up (because we know all the greedy out there that dont share)

FIrst of I would say this goes under the making threads about thread "rule".

There is no reason asto why this could not be discussed in the current topic, and this post to me seems more like a cry for attention more then anything else.

Is the barnet unbuffed fine? Yes
Is the barnet buffed fine? No
Devs made a point of pointing out that there would be No OHK Except for headshots on lights with powerful guns, Now the question is do you need a headshot for that OHK? No

As for what you said about the engineer buff chaos, that I something I completly agree with regardless of the barnet.

What I would like to suggest is that Engineer buff has a diffrent impact on sniper rifles. Instead of dmg they should get Increase fireing speed and/or reload speed.

Not sure why I am discussing in a thread I mean never needed to be made, but cant help myself

Wouldn't you say these maps were too small for their to be any kind of noticeable bulletdrop/velocity? I mean, the longest distances people would be fighting at would be around 100 meters, at which I'd say a bullet would not be likely to drop more than roughly a few inches. As for velocity, the bullets will travel 100 m in less than a third of a second, and that is with lower calibers. Ammunition used by a sniper would be much faster. You think the physics of that would be worth programming for changes so subtle?

No, but itd definitely waste a buncha cpu cycles on it. Thats what i'm here for any way. :whistling:

The point hes making is not that these things should be in game, It is that these things are not in the game.

While it may sounds like the exact same arguement it is not.

Point is, these things are not in the game, meaning achiving a body shoot is not challenging, while its perfectly fine for a headshot to give OHK cause its actually challenging to achive, same cannot be said for body shoots.

No mather how you twist and turn it, hitting someone in the body hitbox is not something that is difficult to achive, and as such the reward / penalty for making / taking such a shoot should be limited.

I allrdy made my suggestion asto how to remedy the problem, and I think it is a fair solution?

Originally I agreed with them not making the Barnett an OHI except for Light headshots, but I gotta say, even though a buffed Barnett can cause some serious damage I'm fine with it.

• REALLY slow swap speed with any scope.
  
• REALLY slow reload speed.
  
• 2 second delay between shots.
  
• Low-capacity mags/reserves.

Those few things, combined with the fact that Brink is probably among one of the more vertical and enclosed FPS games I've played, and with fast-paced-nature of it (considering even just the walking speed of Lights), to get kills with you either A ) have to be buffed and/or the enemy has to not be buffed/have battle hardened, and B ) have to be quite a good shot to hit people (we're not all pro-sharpshooters) since they move quickly... and/or the enemy has to be standing still, hardly moving or moving predictably.

Heck, the only times I've been killed with it were I was counter-sniped. There was one match where I was killed by it a few times, but the guy was running it with a Snoop and pulling off sick headshots, so kudos to him. You have to be decently practised with sniper rifles to cause any real havoc with either of the LRs.

When you're using the Barnett's scope, have you tried taking a second shot with the thing? Even if it could re-fire immediately, you're almost never going to hit anything with that second shot - the gun is uncontrollable for longer than it takes to prepare the next shot.

And if you've got a buffed Barnett and don't land that headshot against a well-buffed Heavy, you're probably going to die before you get a second.

im really getting tired or ppl complaining on these forums.. if you dont like the game get off..
the guns fine.. has its ups and downs.. if you svck so much you get hit by it then deal with it.. '
cuz ii dont care how you say it it is not a one hit kill... unless its a head shot.. you shoot the body.. depending on your damage.. will be a two shot or one shot..

Disagree if you like Necrosis, but don't come here thinking your opinions reign supreme over anyone elses.

You try to use my supposed lack of skill as a way of validating your own arguement, this is unacceptable, you want to be part of a discussion you better bring something better then that rubbish to the table.

As for your whole "It does not one hit kill unless its a headshot" thats just straight out incorrect.

Fact 1: Fully buffed Barnet will kill a light WITH battle hardened in one body shoot.
Fact 2: Fully buffed Barnet will kill a medium WITHOUT battle hardened in one body shoot.

If I didn't like the game I would not invest time discussing balancing.

Balancing is something that always has and always will be discussed on game forums, if this is something that annoys you then perhaps you are best of avoiding these sorts of discussions rather then involving yourself in them.

Obliviondoll: I have used the Barnet myself, and no the effect you speak of does not last longer then it takes to refire, It takes exactly as long.. infact its the rechambering thats causing the effect.. which also means if the fire rate of the weapon were to increase trough the Engineer buff change i suggested, that effect would also last shorter.

Also that effect is extremly easy to avoid in such a way that the crosshair never moves.

As for your second point, I don't know about you but I rarely if ever meet a sniper dumb enough to not have cover to hide behind while the rechambering, or atleast have cover to stand behind which covers 50-75% of theyr hitbox.
And If they are sniping at such a short range that the heavy can reach them before rechambering (which honestly isnt nearly as slow as people like to suggest) then its theyr own fault, not to mention there is nothing stoping that sniper from having a secondary weapon, even if he is a light a MP will drop that heavy effectivly.

Also the thought seems somewhat flawed in the first place: "And if you've got a buffed Barnett and don't land that headshot against a well-buffed Heavy, you're probably going to die before you get a second."

Basicly you are saying that if the sniper does not hit the head in the first shoot he most likely will die before he gets a second chance.. then again the heavy never even gets a mabye if the first headshot attempt lands..

Much like the light/mediums never get that mabye now, diffrence is theyr mabye is reliant on a body shoot not a headshot.

I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong there.

An Engineer-buffed Barnett hitting an unbuffed Medium (no health CPs, no Medic buffs, no Battle Hardened) in the chest will incapacitate with one hit. If you hit the LEGS, it won't, but a body shot will. Also, that same buffed weapon will kill a Light with a body shot if they only have one extra pip of health.

EDIT: Even with this, I don't think it's unbalanced, personally. I'm ok with death in those instances, because you've kind of set yourself up to be more vulnerable, and your opponent's set themselves up to only GET one shot - it's only fair that they make it count.

Funny, that's all I've seen you do so far.

If that was true I would not bother explaining why there is a problem, what the problem is, what can be done to improve it, and why I think others may or may not be mistaken.

I would instead question theyr lack of skill, and I would claim they were all sniper lovers who only denied my opinion because theyr favorite weapon is sniper.

Everyone is entitled to theyr opinion on the subject, but of course I will question or even discuss why theyr logic may be incorrect.

A muzzle-brake worked wonders for me there.

Err.. thats kinda the point of forums, to discuss, If you can't deal with people complaining about things, then stay off the forums. I don't really think people decide not to play the game because of one freaking gun, they are just venting some frustrations. Also no point in bringing up skill here, because EVERYONE will get hit by one eventually, and they may or may not get ticked off by it..

Also, I like how you say it IS NOT a OHK, you don't care what people say, unless it is a headshot, unless it is a bodyshot.... depending on your damage. Ya, its not a OHK, right? O wait thats probably been said several times before.

Yeah, the muzzle brake makes the kick take only slightly longer than the bolt...

I agree, the barnett is fine the way it is, as are most other guns once you adjust to their specifics. Nothing is really over or under powered and everything has appropriate and inappropriate situations for use.

Can the Barnett OHI? Yes. It can with a headshot and it can with bodyshots when buffed.

Does that make it overpowered? No. In the time it takes you to fire one shot of the Barnett you can fire off the entire clip of an SMG, or most of the rounds in your pistols or AR, all of which can kill a target or more. It rewards an accurate first shot and punishes a poor one. If the Barnett gets the first shot and lands it accurately on the right target it wins, but if that first shot misses or fails to kill there is more than ample opportunity to kill the player using the Barnett.

The whole issue with it is the standard "anti-sniper" complaint. It's only the major issue it is in Brink because of mixed comments made by a few developers during the development cycle and molded into "law" by the players that didn't want snipers killing them.

There are many other OHI weapons out there as well. A mine will OHI multiple targets of varying strength (and that's without buffs since it doesn't get any). A Sticky grenade can do the same. Frags seem to have the ability if they're close enough to the right bodytypes (and they also get buffs if you're a soldier). Shotguns do it all the time. The dead Ops cortex Bomb can take out multiple players. Satchel Charges can as well.

Then there's how quickly accurate SMG/AR/MG fire works, which isn't OHI but when compared to a weapon that fires once every 2 seconds is certainly comparable.

And on the subject of weapon buffing, those that share get an advantage so go get your health buffed before you run out into the [censored] storm and maybe you won't get killed by the Barnett next time. I've only been killed by it a few times by a Bot, I rarely see anybody else using one and people still get plenty of super quick kills.

On a slightly side note, the Brink Bible noted that level two weapon buffs could not be self administered and while I've done some testing that I believe goes in favor of that theory, I was wonderng if anybody else had any info on the subject.

+1 :spotted owl:

First off, the comments by the devs were not mixed, they were pretty clear across the board, however it is not the reason I ask for the balance changes, it is how ever something I belive belongs in the discussion.

Mine does not OHK, not even without the battle hardened.

Only soldier frags can OHK a battle hardened target, and conditions for that are a direct hit, or the target has to stand ontop of it.

Sticky grenade can indeed ohk, how ever it has slow travel speed, easy to notice on the ground if paying attention, and also completly possible to have removed by teammate.

Shotgun requires you to be up close and personal which means you have to put yourself in a much more risky position to use it.

Cortex bomb gives out a pretty clear msg, and its is aso highly predictable.

Satchel Charge does NOT ohk unless you have multiples, in which case its not one hit.

Barnet is not a 2 second refire, its a one second refire.

Since the very start of discussion I've tried to make it clear that the problem is when its used in mass, not when one or two players use it.

I suggested to change the engineer buff in such a way that instead of offering extra damage for the snipers, It would increase theyr fire rate and reload speed, this would also fix the concerns you are bringing up about its fire rate.

As for the engineer buff, I've seen no evidence of that, infact there is evidence against it if anything, when a engineer self applies the weapon buff (if he has the second perk), you cannot buff him with the Second buff.

No, there were various developer videos and articles that said a handfull of different things. The "no OHKs" was not a standard comment from the devs. Most of the time they were very careful to skirt the issue. What they were consistant about was that they were trying to include as much as possible to make it as entertaining as possible for as many different players as possible.

Mines, standard grenades, and satchel charges all have the capacity to OHI under certain conditions (range, bodytype, buffs).

Having a counter to or being able to notice the sticky, cortex bomb, and shotgun does not negate the fact that they do OHI. There are counters to players using the Barnett and those players are just as noticeable as any other player.

Barnett takes 2.3 seconds between the first shot and being able to fire the second shot.

And since your problem is not with a single barnett, but rather multiple players using the barnett there's no argument for changing the weapon. Be mad that a team of snipers can beat you, but if it takes more than one it is not the weapon that needs changed.

Either the engineer gets to buff all weapons equally or all weapons lose out on the buff entirely. Changing that creates an imbalance because it makes certain abilities and weapons more powerful than others when mixed.

I see people talk about using a Muzzle Break on the Barnett? You realise that cuts the Range, which in turn causes the weapon to lose damage at an earlier point... basically, if you want the gun to handle well, you have to sacrifice some power and more than likely some OHI's at longer ranges.

I am a fine with you disagreeing with me, but alot of what you are saying dosnt add up at all.. first of it was very much a standard comment, followed by a EXCEPT for headshots on lights with powerful weapons. Infact it was so standard that it was brought up in nearly every interview that related to gameplay.

Mines do not OHK under any condition, unless you have multiples or the target is allrdy damaged.

Standard grenade does also NEVER instakill a light with battle hardened.

Singular Satchel charge will also never OHK unless damaged..

I was incorrect as far as the fireing rate goes. It does not mean that the change I suggested would not be viable, 15-30% increase in fire rate on 2.227 would be quite noticeable.

As for the problem being with multiple people using it, is that you wont just lose 1 player of your team in 1 salve, you will lose up to 4 players, which has a great impact on the balance.

As for your last statement, this does not add up, certain weapons allrdy gain more from the buff then other, since it is a % dmg buff it obviously gives you more of a bonus depending on how much the base damage is.

Super Pango I know I am gonna regret saying this.. but just scope out and in after fireing..

another thank you here.