Breton are clear first IMHO , because of their magic resist and magic absorb ability , which means they are the most naturally gifted to face the toughest enemies in Skyrim , which use magic (high tier Vamps , Dragons , Dragon priests , dark Mages , Daedras etc )

Then you have Orcs and Redguard who have the best powers for melee IMO

Two to one doesn't matter that much when you're dealing the damage to one shot each and every spellsword and their ghosts before your berserk runs out. And why would berserk make them easy to out position? It doesn't effect mobility at all. Orcs are renowned for heavy armor, so the swords are negligible, they're only taking half of your magic damage and the ghosts don't have armor and have always been a relatively easy kill. In a head to head, equal-number battle on an open field. Orcs with berserk are goign to shrug off the ghosts, and mutilate the spellswords. The ghosts then go away. Your entire premise seems to rely on the ghosts being an unbreakable barrier they can spam. But if the ghosts can be created "as you go" and not just once a day, then the orcs get a permanent berserk. You either have to have very nimble spellswords with enormous spells and huge armor, or they are simply squishy enemies.

Also I thought we were talking about racials? When did the dunmer get a strategian racial that the orcs didn't? Why would orcs be any less strategic?

Nord for life.

Cheers

[REQ] Ditka as a playable race

I was saying outposition tactically because as is the standard, a berserk enemy is berserk. They do not think clearly. All the strength they have would mean nothing if they get outmaneuvered and pinned down by arrow and spell or surrounded and cut off from each other. Berserk is both the orcs strength and weakness.

I do not rely on the ghosts for my argument except as things that are useful tactically and in battle. Btw Ancestor ghosts are pretty powerful when the enemy is not the Dovahkiin, Champion of Cyrodiil, or Nerevarine...lol Not every orc or dunmer for that matter is as powerful as our characters.

But tactically the application of a instant addition to your army by even your lowliest troops is incredibly versatile and useful. Surely you can appreciate the benefits that would bring?

How do you figure a berserk enemy is not capable of thinking clearly? I understand what you're saying, but historically a berserk army usually completely destroyed the other army. See Vikings, or Samoa. That's just an assumption you're making about orcs, but there's nowhere in the lore that says they lose their ability to keep a sound battle plan.

I mistook your constant mention of "but there's two to one" as basing your argument on the ghosts. The ghosts do go away when their summoner is dead. THere's no reason the orcs can't just run straight into their weaker counterpart. And I was thinking only melee, but orcs could also use arrows since yours can use arrows too. So now we're doing double arrow damage and taking half your damage from the safety of range. So let's put 1/3 of them in the back safely raining down double damage arrows, while the rest run straight through into your main lines. How bout in a pincer formation, so you have nowhere to kite except inward onto yourself? If we go any further than this we'll have to introduce things that are not in your post. As I understood we were talking equal number in an open field. WHat other tactics can you possibly have beside running around and kiting them?

By the way how large of an army are we talking about here? 50, a few hundred, or are we talking about 10,000 or more?

First why don't you mention which racial powers and skills we're using? Everyone seems to be using different standards (like entire armies have -100% cast enchants to any/all/which ever school they think of at the moment) of what each race has at the drop of a hat to suit their argument. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, or official canon. Pick one then argue.

The second problem is the situation is happening in a vaccum, where say a Bosmer's biggest advantage namely ambush tactics would be ignored in favour of say the Orcs advantage of running up and smacking you in the face extra hard for a minute, because obviously no one is aware of what orcs are most renowned for and they certainly would not take measures to counter it :shakehead:

I assumed that since we were on a Skyrim general discussion and not the lore board we were specifically talking about a hypothetical battle between one race and another and the effect their racials (as they appear in skyrim) would have on that. If we're allowed to change terrain my race might change as well. I thought the OP was implying an open battlefield. Terrain would make all the difference in the world.

As a totally unbiased party, am army of Orcs would decimate anything in their path.

Wood Elves.

If the Dovakiin has trouble with a snowy sabrecat, imagine an army of them being controlled by the Wood Elves.

I thought so too, until the OP started mentioning weaknesses and bonuses that aren't in Skyrim.

Moving the goal posts, lol. Dunmer have to win!!!!!!

The Nords have the ability to send enemies fleeing. With an army of Nords, and one Nord using the ability at a time, they could stop the enemy from attacking for a long, long time.

Yup, and since the Dunmer aren't really in a position win in the lore for the forseeable future, all this happens in a theoretical vaccum where only the dunmers' advantages really come into play :foodndrink:

Where do you get this historical account of yours saying berserk armies beat the other army? That has rarely been the case except in a few isolated incidents or in the case of the Samoans, who were much bigger and more war-like than anyone else they were facing in their region. Discipline is what defined the day in an army. Berserk armies were of little effect if their intimidation factor did not effect a more disciplined army. See Ancient Rome, Greece, China(not the best example there but the steppe tribes were far from berserk armies). Anytime the Vikings fought a pitched battle against the standing army of the place they were pillaging they usually lost. They mostly raided. Besides, only some of them were berserkers. The Orcs would be more effective if they did not employ there berserk ability in the way you put forward.

You seem to be taking the racial powers quite literally. Double damage and half damage does not apply in a real conflict in the way you are thinking. How could an arrow do more damage in the hands of a berserker? It wouldn't. A berserker just ignores or rather reduces the pain they feel. They would also be a bit stronger as well. They would die from any killing blow. Not take half damage. If a weapon hit a vital part of their body they would die just as quickly as a non-berserker. You are speaking as if the entire Orc army would be using this berserk ability. That would leave them completely open to more advanced tactics that would leave them quite dead with minimal loss to the Dunmer if they saw no reason to not just 'run straight in' imo. Of course this is all subjective but your argument is flawed from the reasoning you are giving me. I am not trying to sound rude just refuting your arguments as I see them. How would the orcs react to the Dunmer holding their ghostly ancestors back until mid conflict when they send them around to outmaneuver the Orcs? Or if in the midst of open combat thousands of Ancestral ghost pop into existence and start laying about themselves with their spectral powers?

About the moving the goal posts comments. I think by now it is pretty clear I am only using the Ancestral Ghost power and as for the powers. i go by what actually fits the lore. Really any and all racial powers go if they are in more than one game or skyrim. Any generally accepted lore qualities describing the attributes of the races can be used as well. I probably was not to clear on that I guess. I apologize. No where did I say that only Skyrims racial powers could be used though. Re-read OP.

Don't be mad cuz your losing.. :tongue:

i'll go ahead and answer my own question here
1. defeat argonians with their combined strength (easy)
2. secede from the empire
3. begin a war by conquering the palace of kings in skyrim in a massive sneak attack (easy peasy for them)
4. annihilate invading forces with their combined strength (moderately easy; imperials and nords=easy, bretons and redguards= average) but mind you the majority of their forces would be imperial and nord assuming that the empire makes the mistake of not gathering the bretons or redguards who again arn't nearly difficult enough to down a legion of dunmer even if its 2 to 1.
5. after maybe a dacade and a half of war (weakening the empire with their advanced strategies) they would leave their land and begin their merciless campaign against the the heartland and skyrim simultaneously, with advanced elvish invasion strategies and the fierce will of the dunmer, the campaign would be short and only moderately difficult.
6. after the nords forces are all but annihilated, and the dunmer control everything east of high rocks mountains they would begin their siege of the imperial city, and ultimately the destruction of the empire. (moderately moderate)
7. they wouldn't stay of course. they would move up north back to skyrim to bunker down and prepare to invade high rock and defend against the psychopathic aldmeri dominion. i assume they would avoid the aldmeri dominion for the time being. then they would have to battle all of the madmen of skyrim: marauding orcs etc. but these factions with what little coordination they have wouldn't hold together.
anyway that would be the easy part;

Adrenaline, it's a wonderful thing. People lifting cars, people surviving otherwise fatal wounds. It's a reality, they do survive things that would kill someone not adrenaline fueled.

For some reason you're assuming the Orcs would go beserk when they're miles away from the enemy, why? They wouldn't go beserk till they're right ON TOP of the other army, who needs tactics when you are arms-length from your opponent and you have a clear advantage? You don't, brute force up close would decimate the Dunmer, there is no argument here. They would never go beserk three hundred meters away from an opponent.

You just did it again, this time you moved the goal post for your own goal post. The Ancestor Ghost was only in Oblivion, Morrowind had sanctuary for 60 seconds and Skyrim has Flame-cloaking. You're also saying that Orc Berserk shouldn't work that well, while claiming Ancestor Ghost are the awesome when they actually svcked quite badly in the one game they were in.

they would avoid the orcs however.

As much as I appreciate the attempt at Dunmer world conquest these steps do not sound quite so easy as you make them.