Sigh again with this bathroom issue, please read my previous post if you havent already if you have read it again.

Read my post # 24, listen you said 'NEEDS', bathroom is considered one.

Very well let me rephrase myself: only eating, drinking and sleeping are being discussed at the moment, I dont think anyone would enjoy an rpg with bathroom needs

I think it's because it's a stone throw from thirst/hunger/sleep, it's a basic need. Sorry nod, didn't see the other posts, I think you get the point already



It wouldn't be horribly difficult, but it would get annoying. Now lets say that eating isn't need, but just a good idea, say if eating means you can carry more, well then I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.

Maybe some of us should first play Fallot New vegas in hardcoe mode and then actually start commenting on what it does to the gameplay, I have confidence in Bethesda and look forward to seing how "horrible" the gameplay is with the need to eat and drink.

So thats the reason why we must talk about all needs, so the developers get what people want or don't want. I mean you did make a suggestion thread for needs, I think the member should voice their opinion in all aspects of needs. It doesn't hurt to talk about it.

It might get annoying OR you might actually get used to it

Like I said, I want to see hardcoe mode in New Vegas to discuss this gameplay-vise

It always happens, and has nothing to do with it being phrased as "needs." I have never seen anyone suggest bathroom requirements, yet it comes up basically every single time anyone mentions food. When people disagree with something, they only sometimes respond to the actual subject. More often they take it and run to ridiculous extremes that nobody ever suggested, so that no one can disagree with them on the subject. Someone mentions gunpowder, people rant against the game having plasma rifles and being a first-person shooter. Someone suggests relationships, people rant about how the game will force you to spend all your time at home and do nothing else. Someone suggests randomly generated job quests, people rant that they want to have the entire game randomly generated every single time you load the game, all people and places everywhere far beyond the degree Daggerfall ever used. Since nobody actually wants or suggests the ridiculous extremes, nobody is going to argue against not having them, so the person gets to "win." It's a common tactic when someone doesn't have any actual points to make against a subject.

Look folks, some of you seem to be getting oddly annoyed at what constitutes "needs" and "realism" and what not. And some of you seem to be dragging the topic down, by insisting that your opinion of certain types of needs must be considered in the discussion, even if no one else wants to bring bathroom needs, for example, to the table.

Play nice, discuss realism type mods and stop sniping or the thread will get locked.

I voted for it to be optional
I'd like it to be included as an option. If it isn't I'll still have the option to mod it in

I don't want it to be a core part of the game
If I'm RPing a hunter or similar than finding my own food, a safe place to sleep, freah water etc adds to the game. It isn't routine (for me anyway)
If I'm RPing a town-dwelling character then having to go shopping every day, return to the same bed to sleep every night etc it is routine and boring
I don't play RPGs to do things that I do every day in real life

edit: and for me how worthwhile it is including it will depend on the environment of TES V

Damn you cant weigh a thing then, joke. But seriously I know that I eat a hell of alot more than i spend on the toilet.

Must agree with OP, I dont see where toilets came into all of this tbh. Also how hard is it to eat maybe an apple of a loaf of bread once every few hours? Not difficult and you can hardly say that 0.5 (weight) loaf of bread takes up alot of room can you.

Given that finding a meal and bed in a city is hardly a difficult task I don't see the need for it to be a core part of the game. By all means include it so long as it is optional

Definitely have eating, drinking, and sleeping mandatory.

Being 24 hours behind on something should be -10 to its primary-affecting 2 stats.
Being 48 hours behind on something should be -20 to its primaries and -10 to its secondaries.
Being 72 hours behind on something should be -40 to its primaries, -20 to secondaries, and -10 to tertiaries.
Being 96 hours behind should be death.

Dehydration's primary-affected stats would be Will/Spd, second Agi/End, third Str/Int
Starvation's primary-affected stats would be Str/End, second Will/Pers, third Agi/Speed
Exhaustion's primary-affected stats would be Int/Agi, second Spd/Pers, third Str/Will

Thirst needs would be one drink per day.
Hunger needs would be Str/15 weight of food or so, with a bonus based on how many different kinds of food you eat.
Sleep needs would be 8 hours/day

This would be pretty fun, and it wouldn't be invasive at all, since penalties don't even start until you're *24 hours* behind. You probalby won't even get to that point if you eat and snooze occasionally, since you'd get a message when you're fully rested and full, etc. It wouldn't be a situation where you're in the middle of combat and "omg I have to eat RIGHT NOW"

Also there should definitely be an option to turn this off. But it should be on by default.

As for bathroom needs, wow. The people who bring that up either have no idea what the value of sleep/drink/food needs would be or they're just trolling.

Let me ask you this: In Lord of the Rings, did the characters explicitly have to eat/drink/sleep? Yes. Did that add to the story? Yes, because it intensified the danger of barren areas and long trips and acted as an impetus for adventure and immersion. Were they ever described as going to be bathroom? No. Why? Because it doesn't add to the story. You can take a crap anywhere

The problem with Seti's post is simple, he is arguing against things that haven't even been proposed. That is called strawmanning

This man makes a very valid point, the best in this thread I'll dare to say and just as a side bonus: hunting food can be a huge RP addition

Yup. Hunting deer is way more fun if it's actually a benefit to the character. I use a personal hunger/sleep/drink rules and was exploring the wilds east of Bravil for a while and it was damn fun looking for prey and such. Peering at shores to see if I can catch the movement of any delicious crabs, etc. It made me feel, "I'm far from civilization".

I did that right before I stopped playing Oblivion a few months ago, I got a realism mod that makes you eat and drink and sleep, got some campling supplies and set up a camp in the great forrest it was awesome: I would spend odd days out exploring the wilds and hunting for food and on even days I would go visit a friend that sold me archery supplies.

Feels good man

I'm sorry, my dictionary doesn't have that word, word must be used illegal. If not, give me the meaning then. You, young generation with these new words.

It was only really part of sam and frodos trip because it was about their survival, and it played a vital role in how gollum manipulates the hobbits. But do we actually see legolas or aragon eat regularly, or is it only implied that they do, and did this take away from their part of the story? I don't think so.

I think the reason why people bring up bathroom stuff, is because the reason why they don't want the need to eat and drink regularly, is the same reason why they don't want to have to go to the bathroom. The same arguments that apply to eating and drinking, could fit bathroom breaks.

I don't understand what you mean with value. Try eating and drinking regularly without going to the bathroom for...well, just two days maybe three, that should be enough to teach one the value of a bathroom needs

Lets not turn this into a flame war now...

Who flamed who? Tamalak is calling Seti this and saying members are trolling, I guess of the bathroom issue, Don't look at me, I asked him what that word is, I am 31 years old and NEVER heard of the word.

It means taking the opponent's argument to some extreme that he obviously didn't intend, and arguing against that extreme.

Like if I said: "I think we should lower the speed limit on this highway a bit, there are too many accidents" my opponent might strawman and say "What, you think we should walk?? Do you not want anyone to get to work on time or make it to the grocery store? Should we go back to eating roots and berries??"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

EDIT: damn it, I'm always to slow with these things.

What I would go for is having the eating and bathroom and healing take place during your rest periods. Healing yourself during the rest periods would run a check against your Medical skill to determine how fast you recover. There should be two fatigue bars; one regulates your fighting stamina, the other your daily stamina. If you come to the end of your daily stamina, you have to rest. Daily fatigue was in the first two games, and it made sure you didn't over-extend yourself. You can include food and drink into the rest period by having an inventory slot for provisions. You consume these appropriately when you rest, and they keep you in better shape so to speak. You have more you can do in a day because the eating and drinking keep your fatigue bar large. This way, eating and drinking are helpful but not required. Overall it wouldn't matter unless there are time limits on quests. Mostly what you'd be doing is getting a few pop tarts and a canteen before you leave town, and the system works itself.

You can also eat anytime you want during the game. If you were going into the desert, then you would actually have to have some water with you. If you were going into the mountains, you'd need some warm clothing and fire making tools. Not that you can't get along without them, but I don't want to see a person in a loincloth spending their winter slaying wampas in the mountains.