omg

its like no one saw my post

beast legs and heads are what make beast races well..... beasty

the lose of closed helmets and boots IS BALANCED BY THE BEAST RACES NATURAL POWERS.

argonians can swim faster, breath underwater, have bonus armor (scales), have more fatigue...etc

and Khajit can see in dark areas by default (not lame ass spell), jump higher, sneak better (way better), run faster...etc

closed helmets (unless beast designed) and boots (unless they become foot braces) ARE ILLOGICAL for beast races

argonian and Khajit with normal human feet look stupid

and with new better animation beast legs will look 1000 better than MW and give beast races the flare they need.

wow those look great

As an anthropomorphic animal enthusiast myself, I have to disagree with the need to ban beasts from wearing boots or Closed helmets. Beast heads and closed helms, like digitigrade feet (for Khajiit only. Argonians should get plantigrade talons) and muzzles and snouts, are not mutually exclusive. You can wear boots and still have non-human feet. You can also wear a closed helm over a face with a snout or muzzle. But, hopefully the closed-helm thing won't be an issue. I don't want to sacrifice my armor class to be able to show off the face I spend almost an hour working on.

And the "Beast Race Powers" don't really compensate... because every other race has powers as well, which are usually superior.

I would like if the beast races were like morrowind, since they can't wear boots and mask, make them look more unique, and have way higher initial bonuses... they should be way faster....

IN an ideal system, new armor would have to be fitted if you intended to wear it. But I don't think that will be happening. I do think there is enough distinction in head shape (and possibly in foot/leg shape depending on the beast style we see in Skyrim) that I'd like to see beast-specific armor.

This is sort of that consequence thing. If you're so set on viewing the beautiful mug you've fashioned for your character that you would deny them the ideal protection available then you should be less damage resistant. Similarly I may love the look of a certain weapon, but I shouldn't expect the stats for that particular weapon to be the highest available. I'm all for customization, but this is not a dress-up game.

Maby we could handle it like they do in WoW make them have no soles on the feet and for the helms make them be alot wider to fit the head?

I don't really care either way so long as it looks good. I never noticed it in Oblivion, and I probably won't in Skyrim -- but if beast helms look like crap, I swear to the Nine here and now that I will go on a systematic killing spree, eliminating all helm-wearing beasts.

I said no on full helmets, but yes to full boots. I hated not being able to wear boots as a beast race in Morrowind, thats one of the major reasons i never played as a beast race in that game...well that and the walking animation was absolutely [censored].
I honestly liked the way Argonians and Kahjiit(sp?) where done in Oblivion.

They are really widespread, beasts arnt a strange sight to anyone, im absolutly positive they would have made some sort of helmets fitting beasts, as well as some sort of leg protection. Quite frankly people jump on the idea that they are actually supposed to have animal like legs. The Elder Scrolls is Bethesda's thing absolutly. They deside if they have human like legs or animal like legs, its their lore and whatever they want to do is totally fine

I pick neither.
i think it should be morrowind though, the more diversity between the races, the better. However, I feel the beast races need a little something more to help balance out the loss of boots.

my sig says what I think

Digitigrade feet if you want to talk anatomy are actually ridiculously horrible for two legged walking. I saw some artist mock-up of it once and it was rather ridiculous, and even then it was at a disadvantage compared to plantigrade. Digitigrade is walking on the tip toes of the feet, not the balls of the feet. The elongated feet with the ankle so far up and the knees even further up complicates things as well. I actually noticed something looking at my friend's cats the other day too. When they sit down or stand up they actually use their back feet in a plantigrade manner. Let's see if Google can help me here:
Oh it does! Look how these cats stand when on two legs... plantigrade!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plHlQEwgrrA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdvp56hx5U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgWol4nf-n8

strange my cat sometimes stands up on two legs but not like that she lifts her "heels" lol higher and looks like khajiit

I suppose those videos do a better job of showing off how their legs/feet are structured than how they usually stand. It must depend on the cat.

Have the blacksmith fix them. Its unresonable that cat like feet fit into ordinary boots, so fixing them should be the only option, and everyone is racist towards beast races, have the fees exessivley large. Same goes if a nord kills a kahjiit; they have to get the boots fixed aswell, though at 1/10 of the price lol.

I prefer Morrowind style with beast exclusive armor. However, materials for those armor pieces would need to be considered. I expect to find only very few numbers of higher quality armor.

Fun video, however the legs of a housecat are not designed to walk upright that is why it uses this method that would be very hard to walk like this, I however saw a video of a dog with no front legs who walked digitigrade on its back legs, and as other has said, all birds do it, even ostrichs who ate both heavy and can run pretty fast.

It’s no issue to walk on two digitigrade legs, stand up, lift your heels of the ground and walk forward, see not hard at all, yes you get tired very fast because you legs is not designed for it: to shallow angle between your toes and heels and no support but far easier than walking on your knees.

Back to the game, main problem with digitigrade characters is not only their feet, its also that the legs would look different, I made this myself, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8c-YYdB4g
The lower bone on the leg might be to long however the chin bones has to be far shorter than on a human, the knee joint is also a bit higher. The result is that the model for pants would not work, neither would the rigging for skirt or robes even if you could use the same model.
Morrowind get away with this but the result was not very good.

Actually, Ungulate (Horses, etc) is walking on the tip-toes. Digitigrade, again, is walking on the balls of the feet (Where are the pads on a cat's foot? Those are the contact points with the ground). And cats lack the skeletal structure to support themselves in a standing position.

How do I know digitgrade is viable for bipeds? I have a digitigrade gait in real life.

Colovian Fur Helm, Glass Helm, Netch Leather Helm, Nordic fur Healm, Dreugh helm, Imperial Chain Coif, Imperial Dragonscale Helm, Imperial Silver Helm, Imperial Steel Helm, Imperial Templar Helm, Nordic Trollbone Helm, Helm of Oreyn Bearclaw, Adamantium Helm, Wolf Helmet, Bear Helmet, Stalhrim Helmet and Nordic Mail Helmet.

There were quite a few. A lot of these were even some of the best of a type. And even if this isn't enough, this is a new game. Why can't Bethesda simply make MORE open helmets?


Khajiit don't bother me quite so much, it's the Argonians I want to see extremely different, but again, you're linking Nirn physiology to Earth physiology. Stop it. Bethesda can make up thier own laws.


http://adul.net/?p=dl_mwmods_aduls_leggings

It's EXTREMELY simple.

Im not sure on the matter of weather they should be able to wear the pieces of armour that arnt human, maybe they would have "beast" armour, as they could be similar in shape so as to not make the devs have to do 3 different facets of armour types and perhaps only 2.

In any case armour or not i would defiantly like to see the (although ive not played it) mororwind style of beast body, they kinda looked like people playing dress up on oblivion.

Nice animation only your model uses only knees to walk, heels should also move during walking.

And actually walking on toes is not that bad, I'm sprinting on them, helps me to maintain control and increase speed much faster

I liked how it was in morrowind, added a uniqueness to the races....id rather not every race be exactly the same...no being able to wear them in morrowind just helped to make these races even more unique imo aesthetically not just with racial bonus spells or whatever. I enjoyed it.

Speaking as a lifelong "toe-walker", I can say it's not really that tiring, if you don't stand still. Gotta keep moving, but the advantage is it's a lot easier to start moving, stop moving, and change direction than plantigrade movement.

And normal pants models do work... you just have to shorten them by 20(My model)-33(Your model)%, and the structures line up.
In your animation... that cat has two heels >.< (The balls of the feet extend too far back), and skirt/robe meshes would rig properly even to that (her tunic mesh demonstrates). Also... I don't quite like it because the width of the foot below the ankle tapers way too much... it shouldn't taper at all (There has to be room for four parallel bones in there).
In my opinion, the best way to convey digitigrade bipedal movement without looking too weird is to have the arch of the foot be 1/5th the total length of the leg (As viewed from the front from a neutral stance), not 1/3rd. The shin and knee should be 2/5ths each. (Normal person has shins and knees be 1/2 each, and the arch of the foot doesn't extend beyond the heel)
For walking... the plane of the foot including the ball and toes of the foot should remain almost parallel to the ground at all times. The shorter distance also allows for lower pitch with the legs, making the structure more identifiably "Human" from a distance.

People need to stop including the foot as part of the leg.

I had no problem with Oblivion's khajiit, aside from the shape of the foot.


Crossed out and colored the helms beasts couldn't wear in that list. And I'm all for more open helmets. I don't like closed helmets. They aren't heroic. Full helmets are "Kill me. I'm a Faceless Nobody" signs, unless you are playing a Black Knight.

"Tyrannosaurus (play /t??r?n??s?r?s/ or /ta??r?n??s?r?s/; meaning "tyrant lizard", from Greek τυρ?ννο? (tyrannos, "tyrant") and σα?ρο?' (sauros, "lizard"))"

Classified thusly:

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Reptilia
Superorder: Dinosauria
Order: Saurischia
Suborder: Theropoda
Family: Tyrannosauridae
Tribe: Tyrannosaurini
Genus: Tyrannosaurus
Species: T. rex


"A digitigrade is an animal that stands or walks on its digits, or toes.
...
While humans usually walk with the soles of their feet on the ground, i.e. plantigrade locomotion, digitigrade animals walk on their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distal_phalanges and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_phalanges."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitigrade

no full helmets, doesnt make sense.. but boots yea