Do beasts get shafted in BTB's improvements too? : III

» Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:27 am

One thing I hate in the original was that beasts can't wear boots, but Bethseda didn't really give them any compensation in their racial stats/abilities to make up for it. I like that they are different, but they should still be about equal in the end balance wise.

Did BTBs game improvements balancing take into account that they have one less item slot when the races were balanced? This would result in less AR and if they wore heavier armor to make up for it then they move slower and can carry less as a result. Or if you compared a heavy wearing base race to a heavy wearing non-base race then they just get quite a bit less AR.

Do you think their racial stats make up for the loss of boots?

Spoiler

Argonian STR 30 Alchemy +10 (instead of STR 40 INT 40/50
INT 30 Athletics +10 WIL 40 [f] AGI 50 [m]
WIL 30 Illusion +10 SPD 50 [m] END 30)
AGI 40 Medium Armor +10
SPD 40 Mysticism +10 (Athletics is down from +15, all other
END 40 Spear +10 skills are up from +5)
PRS 30 Unarmored +10

resist common disease 75
immune to poison
water breathing (now an ability instead of a spell)
swift swim 25 (new effect of the above ability*)

BLACK DEATH: (new power)

damage health 1 for 60 on touch
damage fatigue 2 for 60 on touch
damage speed 10-20, 10 ft on touch
damage agility 10-20, 10 ft on touch
damage strength 10-20, 10 ft on touch
damage willpower 10-20, 10 ft on touch

*Argonian Breathing ability has been renamed to Argonian Swimming

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Breton STR 30 Alchemy +10 (instead of STR 40 [m] WIL 50
INT 50 Alteration +10 SPD 40 [f] END 30)
WIL 40 Enchant +10
AGI 30 Illusion +10 (Alchemy, Alteration, Illusion are up
SPD 30 Mysticism +10 from +5, Enchant and Unarmored are new,
END 20 Restoration +10 Conjuration bonus has been removed)
PRS 40 Unarmored +10

fortify maximum magicka 1.0x int. (instead of 0.5x int.)
resist magicka 50

DRAGON SKIN:

fire shield 20 for 60 on self (new effect)
frost shield 20 for 60 on self (new effect)
lightning shield 20 for 60 on self (new effect)
(removed Shield)

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Dark Elf STR 30 Athletics +10 (instead of STR 40 SPD 50
(Dunmer) INT 40 Destruction +10 END 40 [m] PRS 40 [f])
WIL 30 Light Armor +10
AGI 40 Long Blade +10 (Athletics, Light Armor, Long Blade,
SPD 40 Marksman +10 Marksman, Mysticism are up from +5)
END 30 Mysticism +10
PRS 30 Short Blade +10

resist fire 75

ANCESTOR GUARDIAN:

sanctuary 50 for 60 on self
summon ancestral ghost for 60 (new effect)

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High Elf STR 20 Alchemy +10 (instead of STR 30 WIL 40
(Altmer) INT 50 Alteration +10 AGI 40 SPD 40 [f]
WIL 50 Conjuration +10 END 40/30)
AGI 20 Destruction +10
SPD 30 Enchant +10 (Alteration, Conjuration are up from +5,
END 20 Mercantile +10 Mercantile and Speechcraft are new,
PRS 50 Speechcraft +10 Illusion bonus has been removed)

fortify maximum magicka 2.0x int. (instead of 1.5x int.)
resist common disease 75
(removed weakness to [censored] everything)

ARCANE ANCESTRY: (new power)

fortify alteration 10 for 60 on self
fortify conjuration 10 for 60 on self
fortify destruction 10 for 60 on self
fortify illusion 10 for 60 on self
fortify mysticism 10 for 60 on self
fortify restoration 10 for 60 on self

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Imperial STR 40 Hand To Hand +10 (instead of INT 40 WIL 40 [f]
INT 30 Heavy Armor +10 SPD 40 [m] END 40)
WIL 30 Light Armor +10
AGI 30 Long Blade +10 (Hand To Hand and Light Armor are up
SPD 30 Mercantile +10 from +5, Spear and Heavy Armor are new,
END 30 Spear +10 Blunt Weapon bonus has been removed)
PRS 50 Speechcraft +10

resist shock 75 (new ability)

STAR OF THE WEST:

absorb fatigue 200 on target
absorb health 50 on target (new effect)
absorb magicka 50 on target (new effect)

VOICE OF THE EMPEROR:

charm 10 for 60, 50 ft on target (instead of 25-50 for 15, 0 ft)

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Khajiit STR 30 Acrobatics +10 (instead of STR 40 [m] WIL 30
INT 40 Athletics +10 SPD 40 END 40 [f]
WIL 20 Hand To Hand +10 PRS 40)
AGI 50 Light Armor +10
SPD 50 Security +10 (Acrobatics is down from +15, all other
END 30 Short Blade +10 skills are up from +5)
PRS 20 Sneak +10

resist frost 50 (new effect)
*night-eye 50 (now an ability instead of a spell)

FELINE GRACE: (new power)

jump 25 for 60 on self
slowfall 1 for 66 on self
fortify speed 25 for 60 on self

EYE OF FEAR:

demoralize human 100 for 60 on target (instead of for 30)
silence for 60 on target (new effect)

*An alternate plugin (found in the "extra stuff" folder) omits the permanent night-eye edit

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Nord STR 50 Axe +10 (instead of WIL 50 [f] SPD 30
INT 30 Blunt Weapon +10 END 50 [m])
WIL 40 Heavy Armor +10
AGI 30 Light Armor +10 (Heavy Armor, Long Blade, Spear are up
SPD 20 Long Blade +10 from +5, Light Armor is new)
END 40 Medium Armor +10
PRS 30 Spear +10

resist shock 50
immune to frost

THUNDER FIST:

shock damage 25-50, 25 ft on touch (instead of frost damage 25)
blind 25-50 for 60, 25 ft on touch (new effect)

WOAD:

shield 25 for 60 on self (instead of 30)
resist normal weapons 25 for 60 on self (new effect)

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Orc STR 50 Armorer +10 (instead of STR 45 INT 30/40
(Orsimer) INT 20 Axe +10 WIL 45 [f] AGI 35
WIL 50 Block +10 SPD 30 PRS 25 [f])
AGI 20 Blunt Weapon +10
SPD 20 Heavy Armor +10 (Axe is up from +5, Blunt Weapon and
END 50 Medium Armor +10 Unarmored are new)
PRS 30 Unarmored +10

resist fire 25 (new effect)
resist magicka 25
resist normal weapons 25 (new effect)

BESERK:

fortify attack 25 for 60 on self (instead of 100)
fortify endurance 50 for 60 on self (new effect)
(removed drain agi. & fortify fatigue/HP)

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Redguard STR 40 Acrobatics +10 (instead of STR 50 [m] INT 30
INT 20 Athletics +10 WIL 30 SPD 40
WIL 20 Blunt Weapon +10 PRS 30/40)
AGI 40 Long Blade +10
SPD 50 Medium Armor +10 (Long Blade is down from +15, all other
END 50 Short Blade +10 skills are up from +5, Spear is new,
PRS 20 Spear +10 Axe bonus has been removed)

resist poison 75
(removed resist common disease)

ADRENALINE RUSH:

fortify speed 25 for 60 on self (instead of 50)
fortify agility 25 for 60 on self (instead of 50)
fortify strength 25 for 60 on self (instead of 50)
fortify endurance 25 for 60 on self (instead of 50)
fortify willpower 25 for 60 on self (new effect)
fortify acrobatics 25 for 60 on self (new effect)
(removed fortify health)

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Wood Elf STR 20 Acrobatics +10 (instead of STR 30 INT 40
(Bosmer) INT 30 Alchemy +10 SPD 50)
WIL 30 Enchant +10
AGI 50 Light Armor +10 (Marksman is down from +15, Acrobatics
SPD 40 Marksman +10 and Alchemy are up from +5, Enchant and
END 30 Sneak +10 Speechcraft are new)
PRS 40 Speechcraft +10

immune to paralysis (new ability)
(removed resist common disease)

BEAST TONGUE:

command creature 10 for 60 on target (instead of 5 for 600)

EYE OF VALENWOOD: (new power)

fortify marksman 25 for 60 on self
fortify agility 25 for 60 on self

» Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:03 pm

And on the topic of birth signs I've noticed that the thief gets +20 luck. Other signs usually get +20 in some other stat but luck is much harder to improve than the other stats.Overall would you say the birth signs are balanced?

» Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:42 pm

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I think that birthsigns are of course terribly imbalanced. The Atronach, with its awesome magic shield and a hefty max. magicka bonus beats them all. Then goes the Thief.

I know there are some mods that try to compensate for beast races' disadvantage. Here is http://adul.net/index.php?p=dl_mwmods_aduls_leggings plugin, for example.

BTB balanced birthsigns and races' powers, so they are not too overpowered in comparison with each other, but Khajits and Argonians are still weaker than others. It's ok with me, because diversity is always good.

» Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:46 am

The vanilla birthsigns are terribly imbalanced, though I'd say The Lady is the most overpowered one (huge bonuses in total, no disadvantage, no other birthsign like it...). Since it affects starting Endurance, it even ensures you get better maximum health totals, if you're not using a retroactive health mod, a pretty great advantage all on its own, really. There aren't many good choices, I'd guess if you wanted to pick a good vanilla sign you'd only ever go for The Lady or one of the max magicka increasing ones.
Sorry, don't have anything new that 'fetcher didn't already say to add about beasts and BTB. I only confirm what he said.

If not using beast armor mods (haven't tried them, how do they work, as normal armor?), then a way to make beasts more balanced could be to give them an Unarmored or Agility (or Sanctuary) boost, and possibly a higher cap for them as well, if using caps. Could be appropriate to give Khaijit bonus Agility (quicker: more likely to land as well as dodge hits) or Sanctuary (more likely to dodge hits), and Argonians bonus Unarmored (tough hide serves as natural armor and absorbs some damage).