I never take Barter as a tagged skill. I never raise it early. I play FWE and, as a result, I prize the combat-related skills. No sense getting some extra combat items at a reduced price if I can't hit the broad side of a barn with them.

So, I started thinking: "What would it take for me to take Barter as a tagged skill?"

And, all of a sudden, I envisioned a different approach to the early levels:

-What if you could purchase a pack brahmin with a high enough barter skill?
-What if you could hire (talented) mercenaries with a high enough barter skill, who you didn't have to pay big money up front, but paid on a daily/weekly rate?
i.e., you enter into a business agreement with them that they protect you and, in return, they get a cut of the profits.
-What if you could purchase your own store in certain urban centers and hire staff to run it and you turned a profit on it each week?
also, what if you could "buy out" competitors and, ultimately, control the trade in the wastelands?
-What if there were quests pertaining to buying/selling goods and getting them to and from urban centers?
i.e., what if you could become your own trade caravan?
-What if, ultimately, you could be accepted by the other trade caravans as one of their group?

I hope you see where I'm going with this

I started with a problem: If I pick Barter (maybe Speech too) as a major, I am "gimping" my chances of survival (of course you still get other tagged skills, but anyways...).

I assessed the benefit of the trait: I should have more money

I imagined applying the benefit to the problem: I could hire mercenaries, not unlike the other trade caravans.

Is something like this possible?

I'm also looking for something like this. If only a way to be able to buy things low somewhere and sell them higher somewhere else.

I may give this a try, no guarantee how it will turn out though

Give me more ideas, and I will look into it this weekend or somewhat

Should be possible but you won't be getting anything playable for a while

Cool

It doesn't have too be too extensive. Just the basics would be great.

The basics, for me, would be:

-Have a set of 3 hireable henchmen in Megaton (if possible also at Rivet City, Canterbury, and Paradise Falls)--gives you your own "caravan"
-They should be very cheap to hire and only available if 40+ barter
-They should cost a daily fee (not toooo expensive, but reasonable)
-They should not svck (i.e., they should be able to kill things effectively; good armor/weapons)
-They should not conflict with getting allies (i.e., should not take up an ally's slot thus keeping me from getting Jericho as an ally, etc.)

That alone would help, but if possible:

-Pack brahmin to store extra stuff; purchaseable for a heftier fee if 40+ barter

Long shot:

-Ability to open own store(s) and make a profit (you can stock your own store)
-If so, then, ability to buy out the competition (e.g., buy out and take over Moriarty's, make a profit off of it)
-Trading quests (buy/sell stuff for different people, locations, etc.)
-Tie in somehow to existing trade caravans (e.g., become one of them?)

Sounds good

Will start with them, and am thinking of adding a quest in later. Will also try making it so things cost different amounts depending on where you are; so you can buy things and make a profit like it has been suggested.

Would you like it so you have to walk with the caravan, or do you just want to assign guards and say "go to XXX and buy YYY"???

Thinking of making it so you have to make decisions on what you want to buy and sell where, and if you choose wrong you loose money.

That sounds really great. I think you should have to go with your caravan though. You are the merchant after all--what do your guards know about haggling?

If a free roam Trader mod would be impossible then maybe - a quest - scripted mod like that? That would be enough for me.

BTW. Off topic but..i wonder how will F3 modding scene change when F:NV comes.

The best way to do this is to also make some kind of modification to NPC's sale rates to be more like an economy to work, but that may be next-to impossible, if not so.

As for the modding scene, some will stay, some will go, some will play both. Either way, F:NV will be G.E.C.K. based, and likely support mods.

Was thinking of making prices vary, not quite sure how to implement it though. Probably just a few scripts that affect prices of items at certain places. Can't to what Enhanced Economy did for Oblivion because FOSE doesn't have the same functions as OBSE yet.

Should be able to make it so you can go with the caravan, but also send someone in your stead and you have to decide where to send them and what to buy/sell.

To get around any follower limits make it so that the Guards are followers of each other and the lead guard is a follower of the player or the Caravan.

Off topic
Heck I use FWE and I have 71 barter, its one of my three tagged skills, I have 3,200 caps left over after fully upgrading the traveling sellers from canterbury commons ( sp? )

barter/repair/smallguns

I get so many SP on level up with 9 INT I could easily raise any skill that is at 30 to 90 in two levels, not counting any perk I take that may help, I get around 15 SP per level, and if it keeps going I am looking at taking Big gun perks, like Size matters, and having Big guns 50+ on my next level up.

Even at level 11, I have 99 SG with 85ish repair, SCI and MED are over 60, Lock pick is around 40 and barter at 71, I never felt gimped, I just worked on barter after I got repair to 50+ and SG to 70+

On-topic

Yes that would be a neat mod.

Are you using any skill point reducing mods? I use FWE that has changes to skill points included. The tagged skills you get 2points per point spent, but you get less points overall. So, if it is not a tagged skill, it is difficult to raise easily. You also level much more slowly in FWE and the enemies are MUCH more deadly. As a result, survival at the lower levels is incredibly challenging.

Assuming more vanilla-like game settings, it is easy enough to beef a variety of skills and not worry so much about survival because the enemies are less deadly, you level more quickly, etc.

So, yeah, I guess I should have mentioned that this 'become-a-trader' mod would be much more beneficial to games using mods like FWE/MMM than those that are closer to vanilla levelling/skill point distribution.

Yeah I plan to make it more fwe type prices for things and have the guards suited to fwe enemies as I play fwe. After that is done I will edit the values of everything and make it non fwe. Would you prefer a separate mod for the varying prices or do you think I should bundle it together? Will make a [WIPZ] topic soon.

I use FWE just like you, but I am using MMM and ++ spawns too.

From a modder's perspective, I'd migrate. An updated engine = more possibilities = more fun to mod. Odds are it won't be too hard to convert most mods to NV anyway, if something like Morro*cough*vion exists it shouldn't be too hard to convert between to much more similar formats.

Anyway, the key thing would probably be changing prices per location. If meds are cheap in Rivet City and expensive in Megaton, guns are cheap in The Pitt and expensive in Point Lookout etc. then you can make money buying low and selling high.

Oh, I guess it was the following that confused me:



How would you raise a non-tagged skill 60 points in two levels when you only get 15 SP per level?

That being said, I did try out a new start with SG/Rep/Bart as tags and it IS working quite well actually. I just added Malcolm as support/pack mule and then stocked up on a ton of supplies and then we went through springvale school. After we cleared it out, we came out loaded with goods that I sold and now we have quite a bit/have cleared out the vendors in Megaton. Now time to head to another location/vendor and continue the effort (if I keep playing this start, more of a test run really).

BTW, I'm interested in your strategies for low-level survival with FWE and MMM ++ spawns

Cheers

I always go it alone, no followers yet, I got the "you get 50% more xp" when you are alone perk, and 5% damage extra.

Ghouls are easy enough to kill, and I love B.T now, get the B.T perk and go to town.

I constantly keep mgeaton, TPT, and P.Falls cleaned out with 71 barter, and I just got to C.C, still need to visit R.C.

Try this,

Go to the rob co place first and loot all the tech and such, trade in for ammo and stims from the outcasts, I focused on small guns first to 70+ then do the springvale school and then THOSE!! at gray ditch.

I always carry the assault rifle and a scoped/EX mag hunting rifle.
Then I keep a pistol, currently the degal that I LOVE!!! it sounds great, I do not care for the 14MM its not much better IMO and ammo is harder to find, the 10MM or a .32 works as well.
use the hunting rifle out on the wasteland trips, to kill at range, the pistol for ghouls unless I am getting swamped then I use the AR.

Easy way to level and get tech

talk to the guy at Fort Inide to find out what they take, its any techno stuff, fusion batts, scrap metal, sensors conductors.
Oh, when they trust you, they give you a PA suit and you can go into the fort and loot more tech and trade in! its not marked as stealing! and if you have any PA on you and they do not trust you, they take it from you and you get nothing.

Nice tips, thanks

What about dealing with mobs? My biggest problem, especially with MMM + or ++, is getting overrun by mobs. Like, I'll be wandering around the wasteland and then I get spotted by a raider or a SM and they bring all their automatic-weapon-firing, missile-launching (for SMs) buddies with them

EDIT: Doesn't the Robco place have hostile robots? I have only stuck my nose in a couple times and always have ran out of there