Something I'm wondering about how to canonize my character. One of my save files with her had her joining Clan Volkihar in the hopes of somehow being able to influence them to aid her in other areas, and also living forever. After the inevitable disappointment on the first front, as I can't even count the castle as a residence (also beating Dawnguard way too early, at level 20, thus making Vyrthur and Harkon into low-powered paper tigers), I started wondering about the morality of this.

I don't believe that becoming a vampire is inherently immoral... my only motivation for it was immortality, not the allure of preying on people. However, the Volkihar are clearly up to some rather immoral things themselves, if the human cattle are any indication. If I control the clan after dealing with Harkon, I'd love to be able to reform it, but I'm not sure how I'd go about rationalizing this. The quests themselves aren't necessarily as bad; even the radiant one involving framing the Dawnguard is all right if you get the Markarth quest, as one of the prominent citizens you can murder is a member of Namira's cannibal cult (something that seems downright quaint to a vampire lord). However, after playing with the Dawnguard in another file, I grew to dislike ruining them, as they seem like decent people overall... I also wasn't fond of enthralling that Moth Priest.

as morally justifiable? Since you really just focus on killing other vampires, yeah. Its doable but needs lots of RP

They are really just meant to be the evil choice with the dawnguard being the good choice

Anything is morally justifiable. To assume otherwise is a fallacy of the mortal mind and perception.

...It's more justifiable (To me, at least) if you do it from the RP standpoint of your character wanting to be with Serana. Love usually works at justifying anything. It's how I justified a lot of the stupid actions my characters have done. But in the end, it's obvious which side is less evil. Can you live with your actions? Can you?! CAN YOU?!?!

Your dilemma in a nutshell is thinking: Volkihar and Dawnguard. All actions are justifiable, but they also have consequences; are you willing to make a small sacrifice to achieve immortality at its finest?

Power is justifiable. If you're working towards a good goal, the ends justify the means...........

Power resides where men believe it resides.No, wait, wrong quote.
A man is judged by how he treats his inferiors.Yes, that's the one.Do you treat them like human beings, or cattle?

Is a Lion hunting a Gazelle evil? Of course not.

So why is a Vampire hunting its prey evil?

Perspective. Mortals would view it as evil as they are the prey, Vampires would view it as the cycle of life. In the grand scheme of things it is simply a predator feeding on its prey.

There really isn't anything immoral about it.

I think the part where vampires are undead abominations sired by Molag Bal just to spit in Arkay's face is a pretty good reason why they'd be seen as evil monsters. In all the games, there are a handful of vampires who aren't monsters (Serana, Sybil, Janus, that one chap locked up in Oblivion), but it's generally clear that vampires are essentially malevolent, daedra-wrought parasites (Jakben Imbel, the Morrowind vampire clans, the Volkihar in general, Morvarth).

There is nothing evil about the Volkihar. They see humans the same way humans see chickens/goats/cattle etc, as meat to feast on, something which is part of the cycle of life. The only way someone could see the Volkihar as evil is if they believe in that "Humanity is sacred" nonesense. If the Volkihar is evil then so are all meat eating humans. As a meat eater myself, I refuse to judge the Volkihar and in the process make myself a hypocrite.

Besides Vampirism is a disease, it's quite stupid to think, that "You're evil, becouse you're diseased". Also you need the blood to survive, if you don't kill anyone during "the bite", It should be fine.

I like how everyone forgets how vampires were created, and how they're essentially intelligent viruses. The idea of vampires being part of some natural 'cycle of life' deal is ludicrous. They were specifically created to spite Arkay, god of the cycle of life and death. They're spawned by a virulent magical disease. Their patron deity is essentially a godlike Marquis de Sade.

How in any way does this make vampires part of the 'cycle of life'?

Personally, I don't think it really matters. Whatever happens to exist is natural, to me. Also, I think Sanguine is more like de Sade; Molag Bal is far worse. However, you don't know at the time of the decision that vampires were created by the King of [censored].

The in-universe thought process is "it takes three days between contracting the disease and becoming a vampire, and the symptoms are fairly obvious, so you obviously wanted it if you let the transformation happen." Which isn't always accurate, but becoming a vampire lord revolves around a deliberate choice in any case.

Interesting, but haven't you just met her before the choice is made?

No. They're gross.

Regarding the spoiler... isn't Serana accepted? Though you're right about black soul gems.

Yes she is, but as a resource than ally, the Dawnguards don't have the best attitude towards her. Atlest to the very final speech between her and Isran, after that point, he becomes slightly more tolerant.

That's a problem with how Skyrim handles dialogue and player interaction, not with your character's own knowledge.

The problem with 'whatever happens to exist is natural' is that you could give that argument for all undead, which are definitely not natural. Going by Tamriel lore, vampires are pretty much in the unnatural category.

Also, with regard to curing vampirism; keep in mind Isran has no idea a black soul gem is involved. They certainly weren't in previous games; Morrowind's was about Molag Bal tasking you with slaying a rebellious daughter of his while in Oblivion you had to gather several ingredients, including 5 grand soul gems and the ashes of a powerful vampire.

But a Lion is a Lion, and a Gazelle is a Gazelle.

And the question here is not "is it morally justifiable that Lions hunt Gazelles?", it is "is it morally justifiable that a Gazelle wants to become a Lion and feast on it's own kind?"

So you have to ask the question from the perspective of a human, that wants to become a vampire, and is fully aware of the fact that this results in him seeing other humans only as prey.

So my answer would be: No, it is not morally justifiable.

And if he did know? What would he do?

So this is common knowledge?

Not only as prey, that seems to be a personal choice. Also, no humans have to actually die.

Bottom line is evil rules.

1) It's only known by Falion. Anything else is conjecture.

2) That vampires were created by Molag Bal? Depends on whether you've read that book about him; but given that even if you've read the book you still end up asking how vampires were created, well...

But the fact that vampires are bad news is pretty much commonplace. Given that you've probably seen several vampire attacks and that many vampire lairs look like a slaughterhouse, it's hard to see why you'd want to be one. By that point, your only interaction with vampires is as feral monsters.

Not quite. Serana is very nice, and there's also Solitude's court mage.

No, they are filthy beings that feed on the innocent and ruin lives. Only the heartless join clan Volkihar, only the heartless become vampires. Join the Dawnguard and wipe the land clean of this disgusting plight.

It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility though it would require quite a bit of RP and imagining new dialogue. In terms of a good Vampire it's entirely possible, though rare.

You don't have to RP a vampire as a bloodthirsty abomination, there are innumerable shades of grey that you can approach Vampirism with; my two vampires for example, both Purebloods but very different motivations and personalities Rose was forced into the ritual and never actively sought out vampirism but now uses it to her advantage to take out the more sadistic and malicious of her kind. Isabell on the other hand chose to go through the ritual as a way to give her the power to overcome her own fear, she's been a Vampire a long time and as a result of her childhood never had much of a respect for life in the first place, she's not bloodthirsty but as far as she sees it mortals are food nothing more nothing less.

Bottom line is RP how you want it, more than likely it's perfectly plausible

Serana is also the only one who is relatively altruistic. As for Sybil, unless you're practicing Detect Life in the Blue Palace it's unlikely you'll even realize it.

Two out of a sample size of hundreds isn't a very heartening picture.