Nah, pretty sure it's not. It's Sheo's realm and he can make it look like whatever he wants. Of course there are cooler cosmological possibilties, streams of magicka entering into the void, for example. Ultimately that's how realms are made.

I recall a post awhile back stating that Magnus could be seen even in Oblivion.

I would imagine it would look different through the prism of the void. Of course you could only see one within the confines of some Realm, Pocket and the powers placed over it. It's impossible to exist within the void itself.

At least the Oblivion serpent is better. The Serpent in Morrowind tricked noobs into thinking it was a good power and then killed them the first time they got into a fight and used it.

Heh, it obviously is mobile. I said that was contrary to the lore because usually when something, in this case a hole, is described as being on the inside surface of a sphere, you don't naturally expect it to move across the said surface, do you? Sure, it's never explicitly stated that the holes in Oblivion don't move, but I'm assuming that, if the author wanted them to move, he would have said so.

But it's on the inside surface of an inifnitely large spherical plane.

"Because they are on the inside of a sphere, all stars are equidistant from Nirn"

But they are not actually on the inside surface of a sphere, the sphere is only in your mind because you can't comprehend the infinity. Who knows, maybe they are not moving at all and the movement is also only in your mind.
I wonder how they determine under which constellation are they born? Do you thing that the constellation are along the ecliptic? Or does it work differently? Is it possible to see the constellation on the sky in any of TES games?

DarkRalen, space is infinite in real world and that's why you think you see sphere with stars at night, but that doesn't need to be a case in TES

Shor created finite from infinite chaos and infinite stasis (i.e. Padomay and Anu respectively) within the Grey Maybe, or something like that. The stars you see in the sky, along with the sun, are holes in Oblivion to the aerithras where the spirits that did not want to participate in the creation of Mundus, but did not hole themselves in Oblivion, fled to. The sun was created my Magnus.

The size of the sphere has nothing to do with the mobility of the items said to be "on" it. Equidistant means all the stars are at the same distance from Nirn, which is yet another way of saying they are on a sphere. How large this distance is is anyone's guess. In real life astronomy you take this distance to be 1.


A valid point and one I expect to be the conclusion of this exercise.


In real life astrology the constellation of your birth is the one which appears on the eastern horizon at the moment of your birth. It would work the same way in TES. The constellations should be located on the apparent annual path of the Sun; whether you call this path equator or ecliptic depends on the tilt of Nirn, another thing we can only guess at, though I think guessing the tilt of Nirn would be going a bit too far.

Yes, you can see the constellations on the night sky of Morrowind and Oblivion. If the devs did their homework, the Lady should be just above the eastern horizon at the time you get out of the prison in Oblivion.


No. In real life you think the stars are on a sphere (in other words, that they are all equally distant) because they are too far for you to notice the difference between the distances of any two. The space in TES is definitely infinite, so says the lore.

If so then i'd like you to tell me where is it stated that the celestial sphere in TES is infinite. So far I have only seen quote stating that they are all equally distant from Nirn, but that by itself doesn't mean that space is infinite. Furthermore the fact that stars are holes in Oblivion suggests that there's some boundary to the space.

Now, do stars have infinite of finite size? If finite then space cannot be infinite as any finite object in infinite distance would not be seen from Nirn (as it's size would be proportional to size/infinity which gives 0), if stars' sizes are infinite that would, of course, mean that they are at infinite distances

Not really, the real world universe is finite and Lady Olivia already explained why it seems that the stars are on the sphere.
How does it work in TES universe is explained in the http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/cosmology.shtml:
"Space is the interpretation of Oblivion, which is black and empty and surrounds the mortal plane. Space is infinite, but it acts just like a planet, in that Oblivion is 'surrounded' by Aetherius. You can see Aetherius by the stars."

I once tried to find them at the sky but I gave up after a minute (without result), next time I will try harder.

Looks like we got two opposing possible models, neither of which can be proven. A real shame the Dwemer aren't around to give their two cents, given their apparent experience with astronomy.

That, my friend, no-one knows, even though astrophysicists know the size of the universe, as no-one knows what happens when you're by the "border". Some theories state that when you travel distance equal to universe's size in any direction you want you will land in the exact the same spot you started from, and if that would really be the case would yu say that the universe is finite or infinite?

Also the size of the universe astrophysicists will tell you is in fact size of observable universe, that is the age of the universe multiplied by the speed of light, so you can't really say that the universe itself is finite.

By saying this i admit i made a mistake in preious post, as while you can't say univierse is finite you also cannot say that it's infinite

What opposing models?

The model given by the Temple Zero society, and a physics-based model.

Tamriel has no physicists, so there is no evidence for it and nothing in the source material.

In fact, it would be hard to disprove Temple-Zero's claims in the real world since arguments against it would be the result of skewed mortal mental stress observation.

There's still physics existing in the world; this is not only referenced in the game itself but indirectly just about everywhere.


Likewise, it is also impossible to prove.

The existence of Newtonian law doesn't necessitate an identical model of the heavens. The first people to learn about Newtonian law had no idea what space was like.

Head over to the Imperial Library and prove that Ysgramor landed on Hsaarik Head for me. You can't. For all we know the other "school of thought" is true and Ysgramor is actually Lief the Lucky landing at Newfoundland.

You get how lore works, right?

Like the people of Tamriel would know? The real-world model was rejected when it came around too.


No, I get how it's typically perceived here; whatever MK comes up with is indisputeable truth. Doesn't mean I have to agree with that interpretation.

Look, it's really simple.

One one hand we have a source, which is lore, and on the other we have nothing, which is not lore.

Please own up to the fact that choosing to believe something of your own fabrication is under the category of the latter and not 'doubt in an unprovable hypothesis' or 'an alternate interpretation.'

You call it lore, I call it an in-universe theory. Hardly indisputeable. The Dwemer Orrery, the Firmament cycle, the lunar cycles (as seen in the Orrery as well), the day-night cycle, the seasons, and the physics at the smaller level all suggest the latter model.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
All lore takes the form of in-universe theory. This is Elder Scrolls.

An in-universe theory without a credible alternative or reasoned doubt is an in-universe fact. That is how we know that Ysgramor did not make landfall in Newfoundland after all.

Every example you named is a phenomenon fully compatible with the Temple Zero model, which is the only model, because you have merely pulled facts from real life, a universe which does not exist in this conversation.

Real world science is not lore. Real world biology regarding reproduction between species does not present an alternative to the in-universe lore on phylogeny. Real world evidence for the Big Bang does introduce doubt into the Tamriellic stories of creation. Real world studies of continental drift and tectonic plates do not contradict the Anuad.

It doesn't mean it's the "correct" answer


That hardly qualifies it to be raised to the status of a fact, even in TES. The "lore" we have is hardly complete.


Just because something hasn't been thought of in-universe doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And the TES universe is still modeled after the real-world universe, to a significant degree.


And lore isn't fact.

:facepalm:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: