That would be terrible. Everybody starts at what 100 speed did in Oblivion?

Bah. Im just explaining him.
Read again, I never said we start with 100 speed in oblivion.

I say, he said, that in SKYRIM we will start with some amount of "speed", and that amount of speed will be fast. How fast? Lets use imagination, and for comapring - in SKYRIM we will start fast AS 100 speed character in oblivion.

do you really not understand>?

edit: maybe i didn't?

Todd has repeatedly remarked about making the animations more believable, and how it looked terrible in 3rd person when you ran backwards at the same speed you ran forwards, etc.

Let's face it, warp-speed walking in Oblivion looked utterly ridiculous. You can bet the maximum walk/run speed will be locked down, and it will be significantly slower than the OB max so as to appear less absurd.

Same goes for jump height. Anti-gravity jump-floating will probably be gone, and we'll have a more realistic max jump height.

The test will be: "Does it look believable (or at least non-absurd) in 3rd person?"

i liked new vegas and fallout 3 speed and STALKERS speed as well......although ive used mods on all those games so i dont know if they changed default speeds. it seemed more believable and after you get used to it going back to oblivions default speed is just stupid and frankly cheating. the way the game was set up there were very few if any things that could catch you when you ran.......this is stupid game design. i should not be able to outrun wolves or horses or my other pet peeve in the game was the stupidly fast swim speed. now that spring is in and they have both magic map travel and carriages there really is no reason to run faster than the speed of light.

He says: You still have the speed attribute after all.

I put: But, we dont.

We do not have a speed attribute anymore. Attributes were done away with. that is all I said. Default, static speed that doesnt change would be terrible. Whether it was set really high, or really low.

I know he said that, i just felt like he accidently wrote "attribute" while he meant instead "we will have some amount of speed worthy of 100speed scaling to oblivions attribute"

He wasn't very clear.

Exactly. Like I said. My unarmored Khajiit doesn't need to actually be faster due to trivia like heritage and inclination and situation when I can just hold down the sprint button and make believe the rest. :yes:


Oh no no no. They couldn't do that. That would depend on numbers and numbers are bad. And arbitary.

Through the Armour skill, as someone pointed out. If there is an encumbrance penalty to speed like there is in Fallout 3, and I strongly suspect there will be, then you take a perk that reduces that penalty by a certain percentage, so your speed isn't reduced when you carry more stuff. Make it available only if you select Light Armour, or even Unarmoured, and voila, you'll have a character that can run circles around any Nord who's moving about in Heavy Armour. Add points to Stamina so you can run for longer periods of time while Sprinting and you'll end up with a character who can also out run some Mage type who put those points into Magicka instead, yet who may also have that same perk. On top of that there's a bonus for being a Khajiit and... what do you know, a whole bunch of variation without the use of an attribute. There's all sorts of ways you can deal with speed in the game, you just need to use a bit of imagination and not be locked into an old way of thinking.

I give up. You're not even bothering to read my posts so there's no reason to even discuss anything with you.

Technically, Todd said that while the attribute itself may be gone, the stats it effected will still be there. For speed, that implies there will still be ways to effect attack speed (probably handled by perks within the one-handed or two-handed skill trees) and walking speed (possibly another perk, although right now it's anyone's guess).

So what does that have to do with his comment about a speed attribute that you can get to 100?

I swear i could comment "pudding" and make more sense to you guys.

anyawy, there is no communication in this thread. Therefor i abandon ship to sleep.

Have a nice discussion.

It means that even if an overall "speed" attribute is gone, that doesn't mean the stats effected by speed (attack speed and walking speed) will be set in stone. There are other ways those stats can be altered.

Regardless, speed has always been one of the most problematic stats for RPGs. One of the reasons the combat feels better in action games (at least the good ones) is that the speed is fine-tuned. Attacks are delivered at the 'right speed' so as to make the resulting impacts feel satisfying. When the speed can vary from super-slow to super-fast, you naturally lose that sweet spot and end up with actions that feel downright clunky.

It may sounds like it svcks to lose the full spectrum 1-100 speed scale, as could happen if speed changes are resigned to a few perks, but this is one case where fewer options may actually result in a game that really plays better. Speed stats have always been one of the banes of the genre.

Read Terras post, then mine. I dont know why your quoting me about your comments. Terra's post reads like hes under the assumption that there is still attributes in Skyrim and that they level to 100. I said that they dont, thats all.

No speed varaiton would be a bad thing. This is Nirn, not Earth, this is an RPG, not a linear action game. Taking away depth would be lame.

Why should there be any difference in walking speed? There's not a lot of variation between people when they're moving at that rate. A person with longer legs will move a bit faster than someone's who's shorter, but the variation is negligible. Same goes with a jogging speed. If I go for a casual run with a world class sprinter, I can reasonably expect to be able to keep up with him, aside from having to stop and rest more often. The only real difference occurs when someone is at a flat out run, which is what the Sprint function represents. So there's absolutely no reason why speed variations in Skyrim should really affect anything but that. Overall I can see speed in Skyrim being handled far more realistically than it was in Oblivion, or even Fallout 3 for that matter.

So a fat person, or old man jogs at the same rate as a professional athlete? Not to mention your using Earth comparisons on Nirn.

Well your character in the game won't be fat or old, so you're making a moot point here. And if a character does have a few extra pounds, then an encumbrance penalty can easily compensate for that. An age modifier could also be added if you really wanted to be that nit-picky about it. As I mentioned, it's not our problem if you have no imagination.

My character will be whatever I say they are. So no, its not moot.

Well then, I've already provided you with a couple of possible solutions that are easily doable. So what's your problem?

There will probably be perks related to your armor skill of choice (assuming those are still in) that allow you to run faster, sneak better, etc.

No, you haven't. Fact is that a speed that varies from 1-100 and even past that, has more options than a bunch of perks, unless you have 100+ perks.

Eh, I get that Terra was wrong about there being a speed attribute, but your reply that I first quoted:



This reads as though your two thoughts are connected: "We do not have a speed attribute and we are stuck with a static speed, which is terrible." Terra never mentioned anything about a static speed, so it sounded as though you were assuming one.

I get now that you were going for two separate ideas, not intending to connect them: "We do not have a speed attribute and if we had a static speed that would be terrible."

Eh, in any case, I still think most speed stats are evil

it reads like I had two thoughts.

One, that we do not have 1-100 attributes anymore, at least not the same way. And two, that having static speeds are bad. You are the one that wanted to combine them for no reason.

If fallout 3's any indication there probably won't be any variation aside from heavy/light armor as to how fast a character can move and Jump...sprint is just another gear like walk/run, effectively bringing that up means every NPC (not creatures) can sprint at the same speed as well and the only variation is how long, it was annoying having to use the console to effect my characters jump hieght so i could get over a gate... :brokencomputer: and since Athletics and Acrobatics are out (I.E not skills) its unlikely there will be perks pertaining to that.


But...time will tell.

If your reply had been to someone making a statement about static speeds, I would agree, but neither Terra nor Bidderlyn made that case, so in context it was a strange way to arrange your ideas. I hereby involke one of the Universal Laws of the Internet: If a statement can be interpreted the wrong way, it will be. (note that you are not allowed to misinterpret this Universal Law)