I'm pretty experienced using Source SDK to make maps, but I'd like to try a program to make a full game instead of just levels. I have no experience with programming and little with 3D modelling, but I'm willing to try and learn. I've heard good things about Unity, but I don't know if it gives you any more control than just level design. I've also tried UDK, but not being a modeller I couldn't really make anything spectacular. Anyone got any advice?

It's as obvious as it sounds, learn to do something related to game development. If you want your own ideas to become realized learn to code.

It's just not easy to do. The novelty of "this is gonna help me make Mario: Paintball!" wears off, then it comes down to the fact you're either genuinely interested or were using it as a means to an end.

I guess it's worth saying "don't expect this to be easy!". Honestly, you're thinking "well I know millions of ambitious people have preceded me, but I'm different, I'll spend the months of learning and then start working on my game". Then you give up, but continue to post countless ideas for games. As if the people who did learn to do something will just be enraptured by the backstory, or gameplay - which is usually condensed into a block of tl;dr text - and complete the game within the week and a half that idea seemed epic. Chances are, even if this did happen, and a random game creator did work on and complete a game somebody thought up and posted on a forum, the person who posted wouldn't even know it. Because the majority of these people are young and ambitious, and after a month ( and that's pushing it ) have forgotten they ever even posted that idea, or had it altogether.

There you go, some a helpy rage cocktail.

Unity

/thread

I guess I could try to learn to code in Source, since I can already map it'd make it a bit easier. The trouble is no one uses Source except Valve and I don't especially want a job with them.

Edit: downloading Unity now, I'll see if it's any good.

I'm also looking for some, I like Unity, and use it, I know Java, so scripting it isn't that hard, and I can model, rig, texture, and animate models, but for me Unity isn't that good for graphics, I am thinking about getting UDK again, but I am not good with the Unreal script, and UDK is made generally for FPS games :sadvaultboy: .

This is a hard question to answer. It really depends on what kind of game you want to make. I've heard a lot of good things about UDK so if you're going the 3D route that would be my recommendation.

Be careful with the "game creation kits" floating around. You may find them very limiting once you've gotten familiar with them, but only after you've wasted a lot of time and possibly money.

If you want to try your hand at programming, SDL and your preferred language would be a good start. As for learning the language, find a hello world tutorial and go from there. Then try to get something moving on screen.

As you've probably already realized, the hardest part about making a game from scratch is staying motivated. I don't know how many tech demos I have floating around that could have turned into awesome games if only I had stayed motivated.

The only two I know of are:
http://rpgtoolkit.net/home/ (for building RPGs, uses a fair amount of coding)
Zelda Classic (for building games in the style of the original Legend of Zelda, little scripting needed, wont work on Vista)
Both programs are free as well.

The only one I mostly use though is the Zelda Classic program though. I hope one of those help with what you are looking for.

EDIT: Removed link for zelda classic as it might be unsafe. Sorry if it has attacked anyone's computers.
These websites are safe according to google though. http://zelda-classic.en.softonic.com/ http://www.purezc.com/. Again, sorry if they attack your computer.

I haven't used it, and don't know a whole lot about it, but give http://www.maratis3d.org/ a look. It claims to be simple, and its free.

If you're willing to go the 2d route, and think your ideas can work with it, http://myweb.cableone.net/gmcnutt/nazghul.html is an option.

Being able to program opens up a lot of doors, since it is very difficult to attract a coder when all you have is ideas. However, if you put the efforts into planning things out properly, that can be enough hook someone. By that I mean something more than, "OMG! I haz teh awesomest idea for a game!! There'd be, like, these irradiated flying pirates in a war against aquatic robot wizards and... it'll be the most awesom game ever!!! All I need is someone to program it, someone to make the models and texture... I can't wait to hear from you all!!! lol". I mean documentation .

Firefox is telling me that zeldaclassic.com is a reported attack site.

Same here, and Chrome says it too.

I would say it depends upon what you are looking to try to do as far as "Making Games" goes. If you want to do programming C++ is always the way to go and you can get some very nice programs out there. However if you like doing models and texturing with level design I would highly recommend Blender. It's a bit complicated *haven't been able to get into it myself*, but it comes with its own game engine pre-built in which helps out. Seen many tutorials out there that demonstrate how to use the software.

Now if you want to shell out a bit of money say $90 you could go with XNA which would let you develop stuff for the 360 if I remember correctly. At the moment though I think Source SDK is probably the best out there with what you have access to and how it can be used. Blender is probably a step above that since you can make and sell your projects where as with Source SDK you can't do that.

Since I'm a student I get a free 3 year trial of 3dsMax, so I think I'll learn to model in that and then just keep mapping in UDK and Source. I've installed Unity but not tried it yet, I'll give it a go tonight.

Google says the same things, but I haven't had any problems with it on my laptop when I access the website, which has recently lost it's antivirus software due to it actively trying to kill my laptop.
There are other websites that allow you to get the progam though, so I'm guessing the other ones might be safer. Sorry if I've ended up infecting anyone's computers by putting the link up. I'll remove the link and find a safer one just in case.

I would definitely recommend Unity. Why?

It's extremely easy to use, even for complete beginners. For example all the coding can be done in Javascript (or C#, or Boo (Python variant)) and you can find thousands of code samples and tutorials on the Unity website.

You don't have to mess around with file formats, Unity can import almost anything you throw at it. When I'm working in Unity I make most of my models in Blender or 3D Max and my textures in Photoshop CS5. I never use any exporters or whatnot, I just dump my .blend files and .psd files into my game directory and start using them inside Unity seconds later.

It allows for extremely fast level creation since you're working in a 3D space similar to the one in the Construction Set for the Elder Scrolls games. Playtesting is also easy since you can play the game from inside the editor without building the game first (compiling it into an executable file).

Easy to use terrain tools

It has a free version and a pro version. The only limitations on the free version is that you can only distribute your game on the PC platform (Windows or Mac), you don't have access to camera effects and shaders (most of the can be scripted though) and you can't use camera projections (for example, a TV in a house with a live feed of the back entrance on it. That wouldn't work since you can't project the view from the camera outside to the TV screen)

Here's why you shouldn't use UDK:

It's extremely complicated for people with no experience in game development.

UnrealScript is powerful, but not very user friendly. @Epic, case-insensitive names, really? <_<

It's rather hardware demanding. Here are the minimum specs:

Minimum:

Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, or Windows 7
2.0+ GHz processor
2 GB system RAM
SM3-compatible video card
3 GB free hard drive space

Recommended for Content Development:

Windows 7 64-bit
2.0+ GHz multi-core processor
8 GB System RAM
NVIDIA 8000 series or higher graphics card
Plenty of HDD space


ok, I have a few things to say about that ^

1. You can't use Java in Unity
2. Unity has fantastic graphics (just look at Interstellar Marines)
3. UDK uses Unreal Script which is very similar to Java so learning it shouldn't be hard for you if you already know Java.
4. You don't have to create an FPS game if you're using UDK, in fact you can create pretty much anything you want. http://www.udk.com/showcase-dungeon-defense (It's a surprisingly fun game too)

The Unreal Engine can be used for MMOs (Warhammer Online, APB, TERA, DC Universe Online), RPGs (Mass Effect), Driving games, shooters (obviously) and even weird free running games like Mirror's Edge.


ewww burn it with fire!! :ahhh:

Only usable for creating 2d sprite Final Fantasy clones

It's the only free rpg maker that I know of and I don't think you can get a free 3D rpg maker. If there is that would actually be quite cool.

EDIT: Found something close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTD4KbOCSus

You can create 3D RGPs in Unity and it's free. :huh:

If you want to develop games on the PC using XNA it's completely free. For the 360 it requires both a developer's account and a gold live account and it's next to impossible to cancel the developer's account.

The only catch for developing on the PC is your game will require the player to install the appropriate XNA framework and .net framework in order for it to run. A somewhat minor inconvenience and you can include the frameworks with your application. Also your game will only be able to run on Windows platforms. Linux and OSX users can't play it.

Thanks for your help - I like the sound of the ability to import nearly anything into Unity, making textures in Source is a mess of file formats and converters and stuff. I also like that you can play the game in-editor, compiling in Source is a pain. Is it the same as the UDK 'play in editor' setting? That was useful. I found UDK ran ok on my laptop, although there was a slight frame rate lag. Is Unity mostly/all model based? Source is mostly BSP, which gives you more control but looks ugly, and I found the brush creation tool in UDK a real hassle.

Edit: I'm on the foundation year of a games design course at uni, so we don't start 3D until next year, but I should probably try and learn similar tools to what I'll be using then. I'll probably try and learn to model, and get some stuff in UDK and Unity, and keep Source as a hobby.

Unity is the best, definetly for multipurpose games. It has even a visual programming plugin.

However, if you are interested in racing game, simulation etc... I recommend you 3D Rad, easier than Unity, very powerful for that kind of games.

It's mostly model based, with the exception of the terrain tools.

I also like that you can change variables in your code from within the Unity editor without ever opening the actual file. You can even change variables on the fly while playing the game.

For example if you're playing a racing game inside the editor and you have a variable that controls your max speed, you can actually pause the game and change the variable without editing the code, which means that you don't have to recompile anything, and the changes will be instantly visible in the game as soon as you un-pause it.

1. http://unity3d.com/unity/features/scripting

2. Made with Pro, or free? .. I really didn't take time for nice lighting effects, and what not, all I know if my models, and textures looked better in UDK, along with a (what I believe to be) better material editor, and particle effect editor.

3. More reason to look back into UDK, which I am downloading

4. I know, I didn't mean that, in this sense I was defending Unity3d, because it drops you in your scene without anything, and is easier to rework what you want, then UDK has the pre-set character, gun, etc, that you must rewrite the code, and add your models/textures into, and into the scene.

Anyways, what I am getting at, is not bashing Unity, it is a great engine, and awesome for beginners, I didn't really enjoy it to much, as UDK seemed to have a better handle on graphics, which I could not pull out of Unity, I'm a svcker for graphics,sadly, so this is why I think I am going to get back into UDK. Again, don't get me wrong, Unity3D is a great program, but I just see the UDK as a better engine for me to use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_%28programming_language%29 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript are completely separate langauges.

Did not know, but you think...if someone did, they'd clue in to what I meant . :confused:

If you are saying that UDK's engine is more powerful than the one Unity uses... then yes, I agree with you completely.

However, using UDK is a [censored] pain, it's extremely complicated and it has a horrible workflow. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they are professional game developers.


I'm pretty sure you can't use that gun and character model in commercial games... since y'know... it's straight from Unreal 3. :huh:


Unity is definitely not just for beginners, a lot of commercial games are created using Unity.


Also, like 1Samildanach already said: Java and Javascript have absolutely nothing in common. One is a programming language and the other one is a scripting language.

I didn't mean it like that, I was just saying, there are some things Unity does much better ( importing , multi language scripting, easier for new comers ) than UDK, then for me UDK has some better aspects such as ( Better graphics without getting "Pro version" , or scripting shaders, better particle editor, and material editor).

I agree UDK is a professional targeted engine, I just prefer it more over Unity for the little things.

I'd say for the OP that, like others have stated, go for Unity if you want something much simpler, and user friendly, but if you're willing to trudge through UDK, I'd say go for UDK. I have only imported some meshes, and textures, and a bit of Kismet work,which seemed pretty straight forward, I am not sure about the scripting however.

EDIT: I know , you could not use the character from Unreal 3, that was what I meant, you have to go through the trouble of rewriting the scripts to get YOUR own character in the game, and working, which from what I have seen, Unity is much better for doing this than UDK.

Annnd, I know it isn't only for beginners , again, I meant it was better for the beginner looking into it D: . I am just a UDK fan myself, but I am in no way saying UDK is easier, I was just stating from my original post, I preferred UDK over Unity.

EDIT EDIT: About the java, I was not aware, I just knew "Java" :blush: