I've read lots of threads about different situations happening to the player, particularly with how the guards should treat crimes. I kept thinking how that would be cool, how this would be cool, and how the other thing would be cool. But then something kind of dawned on me.

In past games, whenever I was going to do something mischievous, I'd save the game first. Then I'd proceed with pickpocketing an NPC, killing someone, breaking into a house, this, that, and the other. If I got caught, I'd reload and try again, repeat cycle until I got away with it. Why would I want to give away gold, forfeit what I was trying to steal, or take on the other negative things that go with getting caught?

I did once, just to see what happens, but after that, I'd just reload a saved game. No risk-reward, just reward, which kind of softens the complete sense of accomplishment.

Now would be the time to say the obvious... if I want to play more realistically, then just accept the consequences of getting caught and keep playing. Sounds easy, but it's not. The "reset" mentality has been ingrained in me since Atari, and we all suffer from some form of it, don't we?

In that light, hypothetically, why would Bethesda put lots of time and energy into a deeper "crime and punishment" mechanic that (assumingly) lots of people will bypass anyway? Seems like a waste of time.

So the question... should saving the game be handled any differently? Or just like it's always been?

It would certainly add a little more tension and preparation if you couldn't "undo" a failed robbery attempt, for example.

You can't really punish the player...since they payed 60 dollars to play a game.

That's a good question.

I think the only way to combat this is having pre-defined save points in your home like GTA. Also not having an autosave feature when you wait or enter an interior.
This might annoy some people though, but like I said above, GTA has it and no one complains. As long as there are autosaves before and after quests I think it
would be alright. I know that a lot of people on here will hate what I just said though. I think it would be much better as I woud have to think about when and why
the right moment is to steal something.

Edit: I know this game is not GTA so don't go there. I am just saying I wouldn't care if a similar system to this is implemented. Saving anywhere takes away the
surprise and tension that the game has.

Exactly, I pay sixty bucks for the game I want my [censored] save button!!

you gotta be kidding me... :swear:

Saving the game is fine as it is. Some people enjoy the game more without constantly saving and reloading (I know I do), but it's necessary to be able to save on the fly, too. It's a convenience thing, and there's no need to thrust the developers' notions of what should happen if you commit a crime onto unwilling players.

This. Making save points would be terrible.

double post

With them ethics everyone should get what they want and the game dissolves into a big unbalenced mess :pinch:

You've got a point. I've played some punishing games, and although it's frustrating, it also gives you a strong sense of accomplishment. Of course, there's always a line where it gets too frustrating, and you just give up and don't come back.

I think save points might work.. in the case that you describe, you've got to make the punishment for failure reasonable -- (i.e; not something crazy like reducing skill points, or blocking off quests forever).

I absolutely HATE save points so please keep Skryim the way that all of the TES games have been. I believe that they will and whoever is complaining about it can stop crying like a spoiled rotten brat. Don't you know that the more RPG options the better, therefore you can choose which one you can use and which to ignore. Go play GTA, it is a great game but the lack of saving at anytime really svcked.

Why is the OP crying and why should we play GTA because you said so? Respect other peoples opinions. We are not "crying" we are giving our reasons to why it breaks immersion for us. It's human habit to use something that is there. Fast travel for example. Everywhere! While I'm not going into that, I am just going to say Red Dead Redemption has saving and travel spot on.

You need unlimited saves to combat glitches and for ease of use.

You go to jail if you forget to save, it's happend to me. But maybe thief characters should have more incentive to be put in jail, maybe to contact prisioners.

I deal with the consequences of getting caught, its really no biggy.

Just keep things the way they are, if anyhting I also want a deeper crime and punishemnt system.

This. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The only game I can think of that handled this was Mount & Blade. In that game you just saved every time you exited the game (I guess MMO's are like that too).

Might not be the option I would want for this game, but it's one option.

I understand where you are coming from with the save-reset feature in games softening us as players. I would actually enjoy a higher level of forced consequences. Even if I choose not to load, the consequences are not scary because I know I can reverse them if I wanted to.

Of course Bethesda won't implement this, unless they turn it into a MMO, as they want to make the highest amount players happy to reap the most profit.

I wouldn't like limited saving. Too much annoyance and forced repetition.

I don't think save points are likely to happen but reducing the player's temptation to reload is still a worthy goal, I think. So try to avoid having heavy setbacks tied to a single failed action. Make it so there's multiple steps involved before we get hauled off to jail. Being caught stealing could have a number of choices open up (some of these we already have):

- offer the item back, or threaten them to keep quiet
- bribe witnesses
- run away or hide
- bribe or bluff the guards
- be found not guilty in court
- break free on the way to jail
- escape from jail

You might botch all of those, but having a number of recovery options might encourage people to keep playing instead of treating it as a failure as soon as they're spotted, and by the end of that it might've been enough of an adventure that they'll not want to undo it all by reloading. Delayed consequences could also help. Instead of adding a bounty immedietely when you're caught it could be more random. Maybe the guards didn't recognize your face when they caught you, and you think you got away with it until you see the wanted posters with your name next time you're in town.

Also a lot of the time I reloaded because I'd resist arrest and bystanders would get involved (often helping me fight the guards). If fights that break out in town didn't last to the death of the NPCs, I'd be a lot less inclined to reload.

I like being able to save whenever I want, though personally, I only reload if I die or the game glitches. The rest of the time I accept the consequences of my actions.

If Skyrim will be 100% stable with 0 CTDs even with 200 mods installed, I'd take save points. Otherwise, no. :brokencomputer:

If I didn't have the save option anytime it could break the game.

These kind of games always have glitches that can do something wrong.....so no thanks...I'll just use self control.
Besides I like saving before I go on a killing spree. One of Beth's past-times.

Accidentally hitting my mouse while in a shop... causing me to pick up an item and 40 guards appear to kick my ass.... I would like to have the ability to undo that as it happens sometimes.

i think what your not thinking about is how annoying this is vs how fun this is. This is a good way to decide on "immersion" features, this falls under the annoying category, also don't friggin save if you don't want to, its all about how YOU play the game, most people don't like annoying features like this, for the people that do, do it yourself

I wasn't at all suggesting to get rid of the manual save. I was just tossing it around in my head if there was a way to improve how saving games were handled for certain conditions... in a way that wouldn't be annoying or ruin the enjoyment of playing.

The biggest 'con' to any different method involve the accidental crimes. I've lost count of the times that I've accidentally sworded someone and got in a big fight with NPCs and guards, or hit the wrong button and "stole" an apple from the counter. Admittedly, it would be stupid if I couldn't easily "undo" the misunderstanding. That kind of stuff is probably the biggest reason why things should stay the way they've been. I think there are big gameplay pluses to having some inherent risk involved with some actions, but not at the expense of something unusual screwing up the purpose.

Simply? No.
I am not saying this because I want to 'cheat' the gaming mechanics and such, I am saying it for this reason.

'Cheating' as I would call it, is OPTIONAL, if you complain about others doing it, that makes you an overly judgemental control freak.
"Ok, I really want this to be stopped, people aren't getting the full game experience when this is allowed"

Well, maybe thats OUR experience, OUR option to not get arrested, it is OUR prerogative.

Its like fast travel, if you think fast travel ruins the game? Don't use it.
If you LIKE fast travel, then use it gladly, and let others not use it.

This is our choice, stop choosing for us!! :swear: :flame: :banghead: