... and if we don't have an internet connection at home. What then?

We are **** out of luck?

Would you like SecuRom? instead of Steam? i think not.

I think steam can be run in an offline mode, the only problem is downloading it in the first place

I put together this little list.

Reasons that Steam is a good idea (for New Vegas):
1. Online activity (Achievements, friends, etc)
2. The game can be downloaded from Steam on ANY computer. This would be the most up to date version of the game
3. Automatic updates (this could also be a bad thing for some)

Other things that can be supportive of Steam:
1. The game can be played in offline mode, that means after the game is activated, you'll never have to go online on Steam again.
2. Mods will work the same
3. In my personal experience, Steam has never caused anything to lag while it ran in the background.
4. Steam was designed and is run by the Valve corporation, a very respected ,and reliable to most, game company
5. Steam can be COMPLETELY removed from your computer. Unlike SecuRom, another DRM. Of course, I don't know how this would affect your ability to play New Vegas. It would probably remove it.
6. Steam isn't just a DRM. It's an entire program, and it's how Valve distributes not only their games, but other games as well. Steam often has ridiculously impressive sales, and support for other games.

Reasons that Steam is a bad idea (for New Vegas):
1. Players will be required to have an internet connection for a single player game
2. Steam is considered a DRM, and as such is immediately seen as a bad thing by most.
3. Steam will have to be installed on to a player's computer (this can fit under the same reason of it being a DRM)
4. Automatic updates (as I said, this can be seen as bad)
5. DRM has a history of purely slowing the process of pirating while being a sometimes large inconvenience for legit owners of the game. You know, the people who actually pay?

Well, and you need a connection for the initial install & activation. Only after that can you go offline.

Honestly? The reason why Steamworks was chosen is that it has a better public image than GfWL or SecuROM. Sure, we can argue that none of the above is superior to disc checks, but the point of the matter is that someone at Bethesda has decreed that their games should ship with a DRM, and SecuROM is unpopular, and they tried GfWL and bungled it, so they're trying the third major option.

To be honest, I'd like to see Stardock get their asses into gear and whip Impulse Reactor into shape. We need an alternative to Steamworks and Gamespy in multiplayer games, and I'd like to see a third option in DLC distribution.

You only need internet connection to activate the game once it is installed. After that you can play all you want offline. Plus they said you can put it on as many computers as you want, with no restrictions.

And I think its safe to assume that 99% of people who game on computers have an internet connection. Plus, you can't go to an ONLINE forum and complain about needing an internet connection, as you obviously have one. So if you don't like what they are doing, then don't buy the game.

I know this. It was on the list.

People can be using an internet cafe, or another place's computers. Maybe a friend's house, or the library. Not to mention the fact that not everybody that was looking forward to the game uses this forum. Many people out there don't have an internet connection and wouldn't be able to play it.

Where did I say that I was against it? I use Steam. Why would I be against using Steam when I already have it? All I did was compile a list of good reasons and bad reasons to make it easier for those who are just joining the discussion, or maybe even for Obsidian if they so care to look. I'm not for it or against it. I'm sitting on the fence. I use Steam, so it wouldn't inconvenience me at all. In fact, I like Steam's functionality so I would otherwise prefer it. However, people have legit reasons for not wanting it and I understand those, and to an extent agree with them.

Does anyone else remember manual look-ups, code-wheels, map look-ups, and non-standard formatted floppies?

Can anyone tell me what happens when I have a random internet outage? Like, if I'm not playing the playing the game and the internet goes out, but then I want to play, can I play? I've never had one of those since I started using steam (recently), but I'm kind of paranoid about that.

Steam can be put into offline mode. After you activate the game, you could actually unplug your internet cable and still play without ever putting Steam back online.

This was more a statement to all the people who are blatently pissing all over the idea of using Steamworks. Not so much you.

Ah, well this is why I don't agree with using "you" in an argument. Can make it personal when it's not supposed to be.

Sorry

Alright, but the problem seems to be that I can't turn to offline mode if I'm not online. So if I was playing TF2 and my connection went down, I couldn't boot up Fallout: New Vegas to pass the time. Is this a correct assumption?

Don't get me wrong, this is very situational and hasn't ever happened to me, but it would be nice if it were accounted for by Steam.

I could test something out for you. I believe I've had a box pop up asking me if I wanted to run in offline mode when it couldn't connect to the internet. I'll report back in a few minutes.

UPDATE: Sure enough. I got the option to either "Retry Connection" or "Start in offline mode." So it seems the only thing that will require the internet is downloading Steam and activating the game itself. Still a bummer for those who don't have it, though.

That's really cool. No alternative for people who don't have a connection, but I'm going to disconnect to see if that actually works.

I get that message all the time. Due to wireless connection Steam often loads up before the connection so up it pops. Do not use steam alot but not had a problem with it and I prefer automatic updates because some producers and developers are laise fair when it comes to patch downloads.

Sweet zombie Jesus, it actually works! Steam just got +1 rep with me.

You seem unable to separate being mad because you cannot do a thing and being mad because you should not have to do a thing. Once I buy New Vegas I should not have to ask Valve permission to install and use my game, it's as simple as that. I don't care how easy it is to ask permission, I do not think as a consumer who bought the game I should have to do so.

I have rock-solid internet that never goes out, so by your logic the Ubisoft online-all-the-time DRM is fine too, because it is not hard for me to comply. This is a false assumption though, because asking me to always be online and asking permission to play your game is ridiculous consumer bashing. Same here... making me ask permission to install and preventing me from selling or donating the game is not that big a deal on the surface, but why as a customer am I forced to do these things? As someone else said, the minute I pay for the game every interaction between me and the publisher should be voluntary.

The thing you seem to be missing is that you can buy the game on Steam either way. This is not about removing the Steam option, this is about not wanting it to be the ONLY option. It's nice that you like Steam, but it is still DRM whether you accept it or not, being okay with something's restrictions does not mean those restrictions do not exist. It would be nice if you could have a Steam copy and I could have a disc-check copy and we both were happy, right? Wouldn't that be better than you being happy and me being forced to use your system and thus being unhappy?

It's the best, least intrusive experience to PREVENT RESALES. Fixed it for you.

I don't mind Steam, I love it, and it allows offline sessions which is great for people with unstable connections, but this decision means I'll not buy the first release because I won't be able to resell it. I'll just buy the GotY Edition (if any) or whatever is released with all DLC and extra content. And I'll have to take a hike from these forums to prevent spoilers.

A pity.

Think of it this way: Are the publishers and developers of the game getting revenue from their product if it's resold? No. Think of the developers.

But if you're immune to the "Think of the devs" argument, going on a purely business perspective of 'being able to resale the game', then you really shouldn't have any qualms with this decision either, because business is what leads to decisions like this for resale deterrents.

No, Ubisofts is different. If your internet dies or you move or something, you cannot play at all. Its like comparing getting punched in the stomach, or shot in the face, and saying those are the same. With this, you need internet at ONE time to register it. Bam your done. My internet is sometimes choppy and cuts out for a few seconds (I have cable one D:) so playing Conviction svcks because the game pauses every 20 seconds for like 2 seconds and says "Please wait while we restablish the connection!" Its entirely different to need internet for that one time. Though I see your (As in all who don't like the idea of it using Steam) point, I think the good it will bring the company is stopping pirating is worth having to have internet for 5 seconds to register the game.

And buying a game is kinda like renting it perminantly. They still own the rights to it, and everything in it, you just pay for them to let you play it...

Of course I understand that they have to do this to cover their costs, but so do I. My money doesn't grow on trees just like theirs.

I bought FO3 and its GotY Edition separately, then I sold the original FO3 to a friend (it wasn't bound to me because I never had to activate it on Games for Windows LIVE thanks to mods). Ditto for Oblivion. I often do this because I buy the games literally TWICE, then I simply sell one of the copies. There's no problem as long as they are concerned because they still sell TWO copies of the game to TWO players. I'm not copying my games or anything like that.

Steam prevents it, however. So I'll simply skip the initial release.

I'd just like to say Steam was great but its not anymore. With the new interface over half the time i try to get on it it says Failed to Load Webpage (Unknown Error -118). Now if anyone knows how to fix that great, but if not i hope they sell some real copies as well as steam ones.