It's like that, you put the disk in, activate it on your steam account, then after that you're done with the disk forever, you can install by downloading right off of the steam servers after you've activated it the first time.

That's pretty much my opinion too.

I think you're just being paranoid here, I don't see someone hijacking Steam and wrecking a million steam users just like that.

Impulse: Reactor is a joke, don't see why anyone would use it PERIOD, let alone use it over steam. And no one can hijack steam, it's built exactly so someone can't, take your tinfoil hat off, buddy.

And yet the publishing industry survived and thrived in a market where people could lend or sell books. And yet the movie industry still thrives in a market where you can lend and sell movies, as well as pirate the hell out of them.

Games should not be special in the sense of consumer bashing.

alot of steam games can be moved out of the steam folder and activated like a normal game. theres a couple ive found where theyve changed the exe file, im assuming so that that little message can pop up when you start a game. "you can chat ingame and visit the community....blah blah blah." however theres an easy workaround for that as well. i wish it wasnt steam reliant but its better than ubisofts method and definitely better than GFWL.

i personally dont mind the one time DRM when you first start up a game, i do hate ubisofts online all the time method though...that is just retarded.

You did need GFWL to acquire the DLC, but not to run it... moving the files to your mods folder worked fine, the DLC was essentially DRM-free, which certainly will not be the case on Steamworks.

I honestly can't find much data on Impulse Reactor and none on why it's better than steamworks. Care to elaborate?



Strictly speaking, there is nothing preventing you from selling NV on other digital distribution sites. You'd just have to force the player to register with steam. I believe DoW II was released in this fashion?



Hmmhmm. Where are you getting your data, pray tell?



While this is true, it was also hidden deep within several folders that are only viewable if you set windows to see hidden folders. It's not like they made it easy to find unless you already knew where to look. I also don't exactly see the problem with steamworks as DRM.

Perhaps because I'm mentally comparing it to things like Starforce, or Bioshock-style Securom Install Limit Garbage, or UbiDRM.

OOPS! You are correct about mothership zeta.
I tell you what. We'll split the difference. How about 6 months?

Is it possible to phone-in the activation? I don't have internet at home, and I remember one game allowing me to phone in the activation instead.

Otherwise I'm SOL. Also, can Steam be put offline indefinitely? I'd rather not lose access due to any auto-updates or account validation.

I don't think the slight mitigation of piracy is worth the trouble for paying customers who just want to pop in the game and play...

Or those dark crimson papers with the black codes you needed that were impossible to photocopy?

Yes, yes I do.



Do the auto manufacturers get revenue if I decide to sell my car? The furniture manufacturer if I decide to sell my couch? AMD if I decide to sell my computer? The answer is no, so why should a software company be any different? They already made their revenue on their sale to me.



Ooooh I have that game. Alas, I no longer have my Apple IIe to play it on but for some reason I keep the game around.

Am actually happy they decided to do this, GFWL just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was actually hoping they would release it like this, well, I guess my wish came true. I really don't have a problem with STEAM, for now at least, so am happy, can't wait to play the game.

This post was brought to you by: MultiQuote - delaying post limit since 2001!

Steam will only go back into online mode when you tell it too.

I think that is what a lot of people are doing, which kind of defeats the point of my and others' arguments... I am against DRM period, whether it be Steamworks or SecuROM or whatever else. Anything that makes me "check in" online when I paid for the game gets my blood boiling. Compared to SecuROM, TAGES and Ubisoft's DRM Steam is not that bad, and likely the best in the lot, though I often prefer SecuROM and the like because they get patched out, while Steam has never been patched out.

Still, I am against Steamworks and the rest on principle, and in that regard they are equal. I don't have a technical issue installing and running the games under any of these DRM systems, not even Ubisoft's, so they're all equal to me on the one thing I care about: no DRM that requires internet/server activation.

I can understand how you feel, but that's ultimately an irrational position to hold. DRM, as much as everyone wishes otherwise, is here to stay. We've passed the golden days of DRMless games, and now the best we can do is make sure companies select DRM that is less malicious than the rest. I admit that sounds somewhat defeatist, but as long as there's piracy and second hand sales, there will be DRM. The meme that every torrent download is a lost sale has entrenched itself in the minds of developers and publishers alike, and as Anonymous shows, a meme is almost impossible to get rid of once it's entrenched. Especially if it provides an easy scapegoat for publishers who feel entitled to more money.

Since there will always be piracy, there will always be DRM. So objecting to DRM in this day and age is a lot like objecting to PC games in general. And yes, it's an absolutely terrible situation.

As you say though, that is pretty defeatist. An example of the opposite is music... when MP3 started the companies were freaked out about piracy, Sony tried DRM on CDs and iTunes had DRM on songs. Years later they realized DRM just hurts paying customers and CDs are DRM-free, iTunes and other MP3 sellers are DRM-free, and the music industry still survives. DVD and Blu-Ray remain internet-DRM-free, despite what I would say is a much more prevalent problem with piracy than any other industry. If the average game consumer rejects DRM, which they just might do as consoles keep introducing DRM and the mainstream gamer is subjected to it, we could see a turn-around.

I love developers and I buy all my games to support them, but when they whine about used sales or pirates who would never buy their games anyway I just want to smack them and tell them to be quiet. Used sales have ALWAYS been a part of media ever since records and VHS tapes, and that is just a fact of life. Music and movie companies have still made billions and billions off of packaged media, despite this.

It's always good to know that should Steam ever fail, or should I ever somehow lose my account, I'll have a fifty dollar coaster.

You'd really think Bethesda would have learned from other publisher's attempts at shoving DRM down our throats in the past. Then again UbiSoft didn't learn from other publisher's mistakes either.

I'm not pleased with this choice, but only time will tell if I want this game more then I dislike it being on Steam. <_<

Least intrusive? I guess... But only in the same way that you're glad to see your kid backed over your mailbox with the car, rather then go off and die wrapping it around the nearest immovable object(Ubisoft).

Are there any plans to sunset the DRM once sales have slacked off and the game isn't a money maker? Will the inevitable FO3-GOTY-style version be free of this? Because I can wait a year if it makes us both happy.

I don't really see how this game being on Steam protects it from being pirated at all...
quote from an article..
[Y]ou can install the game on as many systems as you want (with no restrictions!), and you do not have to be online to play the game after your initial activation," the post reads. "Not only that, but once the game has activated on Steam, you can throw out the game DVD entirely and just download the game over Steam. If you don’t even have a DVD drive, you can just take the CD-Key from the box, enter it into Steam, and download it without ever using the disc at all."

I would settle for this also.



You have to have it tied to one account. Although I think you can go offline on multiple computers and play it on several - if you passed around your details. I think this would lead to more piracy among small groups. Before you would have needed a DVD for each and not have multiple people playing at the same time.

Basically steam doesn't work anyway (as a method to stop pirates). No DRM works and it's an inconvenience (and intrusive) to the fans.

This, I can use my Steam account both on my laptop and the PC of me love if I set one to offline mode..
Though that is equal to sharing the game disk of F3, anyway.

No game has ever patched out Steamworks that I know of. There are games where it is optional like Prey and Unreal Tournament 3, but I know of none that had it as mandatory when the game came out and they patched it out later. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve's Steamworks agreement prevents this.

That said, they could release a Steam-free version separately, which I am hoping the Games of the Year edition is.

You know you now buly because it will be good for us, while FO3 was bad for us and good for you.

Time for a change and be bad for you once and you can get out with it.

I don't care, this is the best idea and the most profitable for Obsidian/Beth and you cannot change this anymore how hard you are trying.

Get used to it, sometimes we need to enjoy the goodies what they make, so we don't need to use the stupid annoying region blocks of GFWL what was totally useless and people had to pirate the addons or what ever they did.

At least this is proves that now that you DIDN'T bought the game and only stole it!!!!!!

Anyone who supports anti-piracy will support STEAM, because we all get the best out of it.

Too bad if you don't think so, at least it will BE good for US.

kthxbai

P.S.: Please close this thread because it's useless, non on the right way, and only causes misguidance and mislead for members of this forum and hurts the economy of Steam.

Alkazma, you fail. Steam can actually be quite an advantage for release groups as games that require steam usually use Steamworks as its only form of copy protection don't need to be cracked, only extracted from the steam files which is piss easy due to programs that have been made and posted around the net.

Please Bethesda, Fallout 3 was excellent in terms of DRM, don't screw up future releases such as FO:NV, Rage and Brink by forcing us to use Steam.

Hello, I am an honnest customer who buy always his games and I was really interested by FNV.

But, finally, I will not buy it, and not play to it.

I really don't like Steam. I Already try it, but I have a bad Wifi connexion and download a full game is not really possible. And, when it is not my connexion, it is the steam server which is saturated.

Why don't use a classic DRM for retail ? Finnaly, you will be also pirated... Search other games with steam protection on Google with the keyword "torrent" and you will find easily. Supreme Commander 2 with Steam was piraded only one day after release. This will be the same for FNV. You will always lose solds from pirates, but now also from honnest customers who need/want real retail boxes games.
DRMs like this is more annoying for honnest buyers than pirates...

I really like Bethesda and Obsidian games, but with Steam, it is not possible for me. Today, you lose at least one faithful customer.