Nick Breckton wrote:

The best, least intrusive experience for PC gamers is this: a DVD. No encryption. No online phone home. No registration code. No run-time disc check after a full install to the hard drive.

Now, what steam is is one of the least onerous copy protection mechanisms out there, but even the best mechanism is just a way to inconvenience pirates slightly more than you inconvenience legitimate customers. I'll accept that its there, but have the courtesy not to tell us its there to improve our experience.

Addendum: I'm complaining, but Steam is orders of magnitude better than GfWL, so thanks for that?

While I can agree, you'll have to get used to DRM unfortunately. So many game companies are turning to it now, it's basically the future of PC gaming. Not particularly a bright future for the legitimate customers, mind you. Doesn't mean it'll be unbelievably terrible, though. Like somebody else mentioned, I barely notice Steam on my computer. It doesn't slow down anything I'm doing, there are no annoying pop ups (unless you just closed a Steam game), and its function to add non-steam games make it easier to keep track of what you have on your computer. And of course, I recently learned it removes itself completely in an uninstall.

I can understand where you're coming from. It's just the fact that I use Steam makes me biased.

I am not sure how I feel about Steam being used for validation. As an option, sure, for those folks who do Steam. But what about those of use who do not use Steam? Am I going to be required to create an account there? Is this a one time activation? Or, will we have to activate each time?

These questions need to be answered before I can weigh in on how I feel about this.

Heh,really great! So,I assume there will be no Games for Windows? Steam is much more user-friendly and convenient

It might help if you read and quoted Nick's entire post about using Steamworks. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1096751-fallout-new-vegas-fan-interview/page__view__findpost__p__16020668

I'll have a crack at your questions....




Yes, unfortunately, but only like any other DRM. I recently had to create a Ubisoft account to play C&C4.



Once activated, it'll remain on your Steam account. So if you have to reformat your system, once you reinstall Steam and log back into your account your games list will be ready for you. So You'll be able to either reinstall New Vegas from the disk or download the up-to-date patched version through Steam.

Yes, you would be required to create an account. It is a one time activation. After it has been activated on your account, it's always there.

You can use any computer and as long as Steam is installed, you can download and play.

If you haven't used Steam before, I suggest you try creating an account to take it for a test drive. Try a couple demos to see how you like it. The only pop ups you see are when you exit a game, so it's not bad. Plus Steam has an offline mode.

If it gets around having a disk in the drive to launch the game, then I can be happy about it.

I like the way that Bethesda did it for Fallout 3 and Oblivion. (Used Steam Version of Morrowind). I personally hate navigating through all of Steams folders just to install a mod. I would much rather have to have the disk in the drive. I always have Oblivion in my first drive and use FOSE for Fallout.

Maybe one of the features of Steam could be a way to easily install mods?? You never know!


Even carefully well maintained/protected discs can have accidents. Plus there's a little load up time there with the DVD drives... So it's just preference really.

It has been stated that Steam will have no effect on Mods. So, that should mean that the game folder structure remains the same. Not sure if this is true if you install it from Steam or not.

I suspect if it was an install directly from Steam, that some folders might be under Steamapps, although I would think the other folders would fall under the usual Bethesda(or Obsidian)/gamename/ type directory. I bought Dragon Age through Steam, but I have modded it with no problems, other than an extra step in digging through folders to find the DAUpdater or other file if I need it.

Yes, you are correct. Buy and download through Steam - game is placed in the Steam folders. Buy a hard copy of it and install - it'll be placed where it's normally placed.

Uh, no. With Steamworks as a copy protection (and the included installation tool) the setup automatically puts the game into the steamapps. One of the few issues I still have with Steam, though it does reside on my huge games disk anyway...

It's pretty much the same for a retail copy you know. Just instead of /program files/bethesda softworks/fallout3/data it's /program files/steam/steamapps/fo3/data, at least on my copy. At most you've got one extra folder to wade through. And if it's that much of an issue, you can always make a shortcut to your NV data folder.

Well, actually I lied. My path is actually f:/steam/steamapps/common/fo3/data, because I moved my steam directory.



It will be. The only thing that changes between the steam and retail version of FO3 is the filepath. It's only an issue if one extra folder is some deal breaking inconvenience.

Aww, Steam? Well, it could be worse... I mean, they could just as well have pulled some Ubisoft-like DRM [censored] where you constantly have to stay online.

I prefer Steam over hardware based things personally. Having all my games accessible in one place and whenever I want to download them is a lot nicer than looking through my collection of disks. It was tedious enough when I played mainly on consoles, and I don't want to have to repeat that situation for PC.

Unreal.

First Civ 5 and now Fallout New Vegas will force Steamworks on me? For a single player game no less?

I refuse to ever, ever buy a game that forces Steam/Steaworks on me. Simple DRM I have no problem with, say a one time online activation. But forcing Steam on me to run in the background even for a single player game is just plain awful and stupid. At least with GFWL (which I don't like) it's not running all the time.

Ugggggggg.

I guess I should say thanks for saving me $50.



I personally have no problem with Steam itself as just a digital store. Same for Impulse or GG. I love digital distribution and rarely buy games on disc anymore. But to force Steam to run *all the time* even with a single player game and then have Steamworks run on top of that for some stupid console like achievements which nobody cares about....I'm sorry....lost sale.

While I do have Steam installed (and have gotten a small number of things from them).....


...I've got to say, for a single-player, non-online game? I'd rather just have to have the disk in the drive. Heck, I'd pay $5 extra for a USB hardware dongle vs. having to validate online whenever I start. (surprisingly, my cable internet isn't always active. And having a single player game, which I bought in the store and have physical media for, not work because I can't go online? Completely absurd.)




Huh, how does that work? I know Steam claims to have an offline functionality, but the last time I ran it while my internet was out, it just hung.

It might be different here because of the more complete steam integration, but the FO3 steam version didn't force you to run steam when playing. In fact, since I started using FOSE once it came out, steam only thinks I've played FO3 for like ten hours, when I've really clocked hundreds.

Even if NV does need steam to run every time you play, steam has an offline mode, and it's not nearly as bloated as GFWL is. You're only losing out on ~12 megs of memory running it.

Honestly, steam is pretty much the best big ticket DRM scheme available at this time. Sure it'd be nice to just have a CD check like the old days, but that's not going to happen, so the best we can do is choose the lesser evil. At least Steam gives me extra features like integrated community chat and stat tracking without a lot of bloat.

Offline mode is a joke, it doesn't work that often and it still requires you to authenticates every so often otherwise it shuts down all your games.

IF.... IF.... i can launch FNV from an EXE from the folder install I'll buy, I'm going to have to watch carefully and run some tests before i drop $60 for a collectors edition of a game that's Forcing me to use a call-home program to run it... Fallout 3 was perfect, a modified Games for Windows DLL and she ran great. Now were forced to use a client that uses 20megs+ of ram running and has over 10,000 I/O writes in 5 minutes of idling.

in 10 years when steam goes under, how will be play F:NV? At least i know what i get to skip buying until the end of the year when it bargain bins.

Why cant gamesas use options closer that what CDProject uses? at least they are committed to using un-obtusive DRM that doesn't force the user to need anything more then whats provided in the BOX the game comes in. As it should be! Oh and they are also GOG.com.

I dont want or exspect a DRM free game, but i do expect a game that doesn't require the internet to play. Even a one time use is to much, its why i never bought borderlands, its why.... sadly i might never get to play FNV.... then Again its not a Beth game so i don't feel like i missed anything.

Kneels down and prays.....TESV you are my only hope!

I am completely glad about this decision. Steam is a great program. I don't see why anyone would hate it. I will definitely buy the game now.

Steam is great and there's no real reason for any hardcoe PC gamer not to have it.

With the new version it should work when you are offline, there seems to be something wrong with either your system or Steam itself on your machine. With the old client you had to check "go offline" right under the first menu option. Occasionally that did not work permanently as Steam tried to relog before checking for offline mode settings. That [i][should/i] have been dealt with, and in my case it works perfectly well without hiccoughs.

Yeah I know, but still currently my Fallout 3 is installed H:\Games\Fallout3 then with it in the Steam folder, it would be in G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas.
One of the biggest problems that I see personally is that I have Steam on my Velociraptor (300GB) and Oblivion and Fallout 3 (and wish to be Fallout New Vegas) on my 60GB OCZ Vertex SSD. It helps to minimize and almost remove the micro stutter completely. I wouldnt be able to fit my entire Steam account on a 60GB drive (30GB is reserved for Windows).