Best way to merge mods : III

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:29 am

What's the best way to combine mods (esm's/esp's) when you get close to the 255 mod limit?

Should I use SmartMerger? Or TESCS? Or something else?

Any tips or pitfalls to watch out for?

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:33 pm

BTW I'm at 254 mods now! And I want to try Necessities of Morrowind and MCA 6.1 :unsure:

It looks LGNPC / Less Generic mods (about 20 mods for me) might be a good combination for merging, although I'll have to check with mlox to make sure nothing needs to be interspersed with these.

These look promising too:

_165_ A Portcullis for Pelagiad (v1.1).esp
_166_ A Portcullis for Hawkmoth (v1.1).esp
_167_ A Portcullis for Moonmoth (v1.1).esp
_168_ A Portcullis for Wolverine Hall (v1.0).esp

_113_ Antares' Creatures - Trolls!.esp
_222_ Antares' Creatures - Treant.esp
_226_ Antares' Creatures - Frost Giant.esp

_027_ Atmospheric Sound Effects (BMS Edit).esp
_028_ Atmospheric Sound Effects - TB (BMS Edit).esp
_029_ Atmospheric Sound Effects - BM (BMS Edit).esp

_171_ Book Jackets - Morrowind - BookRotate.esp
_172_ Book Jackets - Tribunal - BookRotate.esp
_173_ Book Jackets - Bloodmoon - BookRotate.esp

_048_ Illuminated Order v1.0.esp
_049_ Illuminated Order v1.0 - Bloodmoon Compatibility Extras.esp

_030_ VGreetings-Hit.esp
_034_ VGreetings-Thief.esp
_115_ VGreetings.esp
_243_ VGreetings-Flee.esp
_244_ VGreetings-Idle.esp
_245_ VGreetings-Attack.esp

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:57 pm

i generally take similar type mods. load them in the cs. but do not set any as an active file. then hit the save button and save a new esp. like total armor for armor mods. total weapons for weapons and such. but you cannot merge some mods like the lgnpc mods because dialog won't merge right with them. and any mod with heavy questing/scripting should be left alone too.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:25 am

Smartmerger works well for similar mod groups (armors, weapons, islands etc). I'd avoid the merging too many mods in one group though..but you can use it for that too if you want. It has a few hangups (dialogue is better than TEStool but still gets hung up occasionally.) On top of that it does some other stuff too. Honestly, I'd avoid merging dialogue heavy quest mods together, just to avoid the trouble.

TESCS would work but it mergers entire mods with the new one overriding the older one completely (unlike Smartmerger which merges all changes together like Testool does). Tesame will also merge two mods at a time (like the TESCS) but it has the same problem as TESCS that it doesn't selectively merge.

What you posted looks good. Probably can merge the LGNPC stuff since they are meant to be used together. Actually all of them should merge fine. Those are the safest types (although completely disimilar mods would be pretty safe too).

EDIT: I did a little quick check to see if anyone uses a merged LGNPC ...first one I found was Fliggerty. Not sure if he used some "Flig-fu" on it to make it work though. :wink_smile:

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:01 am

What you posted looks good. Probably can merge the LGNPC stuff since they are meant to be used together. Actually all of them should merge fine. Those are the safest types (although completely disimilar mods would be pretty safe too).

EDIT: I did a little quick check to see if anyone uses a merged LGNPC ...first one I found was Fliggerty. Not sure if he used some "Flig-fu" on it to make it work though. :wink_smile:

I'd love some advice on how to successfully merge the LGNPC mods. They always break, horribly, whenever I've tried it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:49 am

Merging LGNPC is a great boon since it frees up space for 20 mods. I can then postpone worrying about other little groups.

I gave up on SmartMerger which either hangs or crashes for me.

The TESCS "Combine Plugins" feature was much easier. The resultant mod was about 160 KB smaller than the 21 seperate mods.
It seems to work fine. :celebration:

FYI this looks like the best order for merging LGNPC mods. Note that I don't use the optional MCA or Uvirith Inside files:

"LGNPC_NoLore_v0_83.esp" "Lgnpc_SN.esp" "Less_Generic_Bloodmoon.esp" "LGNPC_GnaarMok_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_AldVelothi_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_MaarGan_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_HlaOad_v1_32.esp" "LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20_suppl.esp" "LGNPC_Pelagiad_v1_30.esp" "LGNPC_TelMora_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_Khuul_v2_20.esp" "LGNPC_VivecFQ_v2_10.esp" "LGNPC_TelUvirith_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_SecretMasters_v1_30.esp" "LGNPC_IndarysManor_v1_51.esp" "LGNPC_VivecRedoran_v1_50.esp" "Less_Generic_Nerevarine.esp" "LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_SoulSicknessPatch_v1_00.esp" "Less_Generic_Tribunal.esp"

I also manually made a copy of parts of mlox_base.txt and altered it so I have new custom rules for my merged LGNPC mod.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:51 am

Merging LGNPC is a great boon since it frees up space for 20 mods. I can then postpone worrying about other little groups.

I gave up on SmartMerger which either hangs or crashes for me.

The TESCS "Combine Plugins" feature was much easier. The resultant mod was about 160 KB smaller than the 21 seperate mods.
It seems to work fine. :celebration:

FYI this looks like the best order for merging LGNPC mods. Note that I don't use the optional MCA or Uvirith Inside files:

"LGNPC_NoLore_v0_83.esp" "Lgnpc_SN.esp" "Less_Generic_Bloodmoon.esp" "LGNPC_GnaarMok_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_AldVelothi_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_MaarGan_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_HlaOad_v1_32.esp" "LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20_suppl.esp" "LGNPC_Pelagiad_v1_30.esp" "LGNPC_TelMora_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_Khuul_v2_20.esp" "LGNPC_VivecFQ_v2_10.esp" "LGNPC_TelUvirith_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_SecretMasters_v1_30.esp" "LGNPC_IndarysManor_v1_51.esp" "LGNPC_VivecRedoran_v1_50.esp" "Less_Generic_Nerevarine.esp" "LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_SoulSicknessPatch_v1_00.esp" "Less_Generic_Tribunal.esp"

I also manually made a copy of parts of mlox_base.txt and altered it so I have new custom rules for my merged LGNPC mod.

That actually makes sense. The LGNPC ones replace /enhance the original dialogue you wounln't need to make the individual LGNPC mods play nice with each other since they are meant to load on top of each other. In this case you wouldn't want to relink the dialogue. Eh...hindsight is 20/20. Glad you were able to make it work. Let us know if there are any problems (I doubt there will be).

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:13 pm

then hit the save button and save a new esp.

Not sure this will work as expected.

The TESCS "Combine Plugins" feature was much easier.

Yes, the "Combine loaded plugins" option should work :goodjob: .

Good candidates for merging?
- mods no more actively updated
- mods with similar scope/changes
- mods you can understand how/what they are doing

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:17 pm

yes, its combine plugins, i was tired last night and not thinking straight. :facepalm:

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:08 am

Merging LGNPC is a great boon since it frees up space for 20 mods. I can then postpone worrying about other little groups.

I gave up on SmartMerger which either hangs or crashes for me.

The TESCS "Combine Plugins" feature was much easier. The resultant mod was about 160 KB smaller than the 21 seperate mods.
It seems to work fine. :celebration:

FYI this looks like the best order for merging LGNPC mods. Note that I don't use the optional MCA or Uvirith Inside files:

"LGNPC_NoLore_v0_83.esp" "Lgnpc_SN.esp" "Less_Generic_Bloodmoon.esp" "LGNPC_GnaarMok_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_AldVelothi_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_MaarGan_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_HlaOad_v1_32.esp" "LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20_suppl.esp" "LGNPC_Pelagiad_v1_30.esp" "LGNPC_TelMora_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_Khuul_v2_20.esp" "LGNPC_VivecFQ_v2_10.esp" "LGNPC_TelUvirith_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_SecretMasters_v1_30.esp" "LGNPC_IndarysManor_v1_51.esp" "LGNPC_VivecRedoran_v1_50.esp" "Less_Generic_Nerevarine.esp" "LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20.esp" "LGNPC_SoulSicknessPatch_v1_00.esp" "Less_Generic_Tribunal.esp"

I also manually made a copy of parts of mlox_base.txt and altered it so I have new custom rules for my merged LGNPC mod.

My load/merge order was similar, if not identical, and I also used the Construction Set to combine them. The dialog worked fine, but many of the quests were broken for me.... glad it works for you, though! :bowdown:

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:29 am

"The dialog worked fine, but many of the quests were broken for me.... glad it works for you, though!"

Good point. l need to actually test it out in game some more!

According to Wrye Mash leveled list merger, the LGNPC mods don't affect leveled lists. So by merging them into one mod, no potential merged leveled list information is lost.

Another worry is that some other plugin would be need to be interleaved with LGNPC. Checking TESPCD shows some conflicts but doesn't really illuminate the issue fully:

Spoiler

Conflicts:
INFO Dialog Text 13142310641054729340 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP HerTamedLightning.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
INFO Dialog Text 111582369517121903 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Vivec_Voice_addon TRIBUNAL.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
INFO Dialog Text 29408217432575429381 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Vivec_Voice_addon TRIBUNAL.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
INFO Dialog Text 1926254563774775 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Morrowind.esm
INFO Dialog Text 2228820944513115945 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Morrowind.esm
INFO Dialog Text 2171077941547022148 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
INFO Dialog Text 27838159622142612029 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Morrowind.esm
INFO Dialog Text 2238124702247159062 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Bloodmoon.esm
INFO Dialog Text 91127355340130582 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Bloodmoon.esm
INFO Dialog Text 10767131922673432549 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
INFO Dialog Text 759714111504811569 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Sleepers-fix.esp Morrowind.esm
INFO Dialog Text 254122061577413235 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP KS_Julan_Ashlander Companion_1.3.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
INFO Dialog Text 2467121059927918346 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP KS_Julan_Ashlander Companion_1.3.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
INFO Dialog Text 653427771965712762 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP KS_Julan_Ashlander Companion_1.3.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry boderi farano LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP All classes playable.esp Morrowind.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry Glonagoth LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Tales of the Bitter Coast.esp Tribunal.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry Trasteve LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Daggerfall Collection Ver 1.1.esp Morrowind.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry malpenix blonia LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Daggerfall Collection Ver 1.1.esp Morrowind.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry Sathyn Andrano LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Daggerfall Collection Ver 1.1.esp Bloodmoon.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry tiras sadus LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Daggerfall Collection Ver 1.1.esp Morrowind.esm
INFO Dialog Text 2084150232529111250 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP KS_Julan_Ashlander Companion_1.3.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry mebestian ence LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Daggerfall Collection Ver 1.1.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry Sirollus Saccus LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP LeFemmArmor.esp Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry dandera selaro LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP LeFemmArmor.esp Morrowind.esm
NPC_ NPC Entry valveli arelas LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Stanegau Isle.esp Morrowind.esm

Warnings:
INFO Dialog Text Marked as DELETED (Removed from Game) 21337261531912523917 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP None
INFO Dialog Text Marked as DELETED (Removed from Game) 23994244042821528660 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP None
INFO Dialog Text Marked as DELETED (Removed from Game) 2753728978297158514 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP None
INFO Dialog Text Marked as DELETED (Removed from Game) 69012022782525615 LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP None
CELL Cell Entry Marked as DELETED (Removed from Game) 1,0,0 Ald-ruhn, Braynas Hlervu's House LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP None
CELL Cell Entry Marked as DELETED (Removed from Game) 1,0,0 Ald-ruhn, Galthragoth's House LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP None
GLOB Global Settings Identical to Default Entry. (Unclean Entry) gbl_xyGrid LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Book Rotate.esm
GLOB Global Settings Identical to Default Entry. (Unclean Entry) HustlerKnown LGNPC_MyMerged.ESP Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm

Lastly, it's not clear what date to pick for the new mod. I chose 6/30/2008 11:02pm because a lot of the LGNPC mods are clustered around that time. It's possible there are ordering issues where people implicitly depend on this and not explicitly on mlox rules.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:24 pm

One thing that probably should be noted: every time a mod is saved using TESCS, object references are reset (standard start from 1 ).
If your saved mod was using renumbered references (something that was really needed before MCP, but still used), there may be problems trying to use it from a previously saved game with renumbered references.
Untested, but I suspect TESCS merging operation resets references too, so maybe better control this thing too. In theory, MCP should be able to reconstruct correct references on loading, but testing may be needed
[EDIT]clarification

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:37 pm

>I suspect TESCS merging operation resets references too, so maybe better control this thing too

I'll check if that happens.
I'm not sure how to fix that :unsure:
Maybe if SmartMerger can preserve references I can get the source (C?) and look into why it's crashing / hanging.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:52 am

>>I suspect TESCS merging operation resets references too

I wasn't able to determine one way or the other.
It seems TESCS, MWEdit, and TESAME aren't capable of showing reference numbers.

Can some other tool do this?

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:51 pm

Blouge

Personally, I always use TESCS for merging mods with no troubles so far.
And as it's been said, it is pretty safe to combine something like Domina and Jeremy's armor series, for example.. but merging dialogue heavy plugins like LGNPC seems like a bad idea.
Anyway, take a look at http://gmml.pbworks.com/w/page/5990237/MergeMods. Luck!

P.S. That's really interesting

_027_ Atmospheric Sound Effects (BMS Edit).esp_028_ Atmospheric Sound Effects - TB (BMS Edit).esp_029_ Atmospheric Sound Effects - BM (BMS Edit).esp

Is this a "Better Music System" compatible version of ASE? Please tell me where can I get it..

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:20 am

>merging dialogue heavy plugins like LGNPC seems like a bad idea.

I disagree. The game does not merge dialog when it loads the 20 esp's.
Hence, merging the esp's without merging dialog should produce exactly the intended result: what loading them individually in the game would do.

>Anyway, take a look at Galahut's Wiki. Luck!

Thanks, I'll check it out.

>_027_ Atmospheric Sound Effects (BMS Edit).esp

FYI these were edited by BTB and can be found here: http://btb2.free.fr/morrowind.html
I think they get rid of things like tavern music that conflict with BMS.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:01 am

It seems TESCS, MWEdit, and TESAME aren't capable of showing reference numbers.
Can some other tool do this?

Mash essentially, for both renumbering and testing reference numbers.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:39 pm

I used Morrowind Enchanted Editor and opened some Cells and looked at the FRMR entry object indices.
The original LGNPC object indices differ from the indices in my merged mod.

So it probably can't be safely used with an in-progress LGNPC save. You have to start a new game to avoid problems. The TESCS Combine Plugins does renumber the indices.

If anyone wants me to release the merged LGNPC I have let me know and I will try to get permission.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:17 am

I used Morrowind Enchanted Editor and opened some Cells and looked at the FRMR entry object indices.
The original LGNPC object indices differ from the indices in my merged mod.

So it probably can't be safely used with an in-progress LGNPC save. You have to start a new game to avoid problems. The TESCS Combine Plugins does renumber the indices.

If anyone wants me to release the merged LGNPC I have let me know and I will try to get permission.

A way to merge and play a on-going game could be
(example with 2 mods to be merged, you can see starting reference numbers of a mod in Mash\Renumber refs.)
mod A.esp, has references renumbered from 42000
mod B.esp, has references renumbered from 33000, loads after A.esp

With Mash\mods
1a. select mod A.esp, File\Duplicate as A1.esp
1b. select mod B.esp, File\Duplicate as B1.esp
2a. select mod A1.esp, Renumber Refs, input 1 (standard)
2b. select mod B1.esp, Renumber Refs, input 1 (standard)
3a. select mod A1.esp, Updaters, select A.esp
3b. select mod B1.esp, Updaters, select B.esp

With TESCS
4. load A1.esp, B1.esp, do not select active file, combine loaded plugins as A1B1.esp

With Mash\saves
5. select a recent save, File\Duplicate as testgame
6a. select testgame, select MOD A.esp, right click, Change to... A1.esp,
6b. select testgame, select MOD B.esp, right click, Change to... B1.esp, Save

7. try loading testgame in Morrowind.exe and play a lot. if it works, you could be able to safely use it also with merged A1B1.esp

From Mash\saves
8a. select testgame, select MOD A1.esp, untick it
8b. select testgame, select MOD B1.esp, right click, Change to... A1B1.esp, Save.

A lot of work, and untested, but this is what I'd try if I'd want to reset some mods to standard reference numbering (starting from 1), merge and use them on a on going game.

[EDIT]typos

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:19 am

>merging dialogue heavy plugins like LGNPC seems like a bad idea.

I disagree. The game does not merge dialog when it loads the 20 esp's.
Hence, merging the esp's without merging dialog should produce exactly the intended result: what loading them individually in the game would do.

>Anyway, take a look at Galahut's Wiki. Luck!

Thanks, I'll check it out.

>_027_ Atmospheric Sound Effects (BMS Edit).esp

FYI these were edited by BTB and can be found here: http://btb2.free.fr/morrowind.html
I think they get rid of things like tavern music that conflict with BMS.

Speaking of merging, I've since merged those into a single plugin.

Though, as someone pointed out to me, the merged plugin needs to be set to load *before* the "Settings" plugin from BTB's Game Improvements. I'll upload a new version with a revised edit date in a bit.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:48 pm

>I'll upload a new version with a revised edit date in a bit.

This helps but an mlox rule would be good too