Beth.Soft., Please don't make clear associations between in- : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:33 pm

err, that's not going to happen.
even if it's not intentionally based on apre-existing culture, people will link it. make up a background for a race of man, and other relevant stuff, nd i assure you, people will be able to link it to actual cultures.
just happens real life is a good place to get inspiration from. even the greatest works of fiction are heavily based on pre-existing cultures and mythology.

Exactly. Its not because Beth lacks for imagination, the elven races, Khajiits, and Argonians are very imaginative imo, it just that it doesn't take long to brush up against real world cultures when fleshing out a fictional culture for a group based on humans in our world. There are only so many configurations anyone could come up with for groups based on real world humans.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:10 am

Very true. I hope that even if they will take inspiration from real Vikings, they will create enough lore, so it would look new and nice. Skjorta was a good neutral example, BUT it will just kill the game for me if I will feel even a distant similarity to something like Mummis or Hattifnats (ok, these were silly examples). I will never be able to take the game seriously. And I'd like to.

You needn't worry about bethesda not coming up with enough lore to make the Nords interesting. It seems to me like you've not delved terribly deeply into TES lore, am I correct? There's a wealth of information relating to the Nords, and much of it is very, very cool. Some of their most powerful users of Thu'um (or the dragonshouts) have to be gagged permanently, lest they accidentally lay waste to entire nations. Tell me that's not cool.

Yes, I am speaking about current cultures, or things that can have connection to current real life. Cultures living thousands years ago are as good for a race template as Argonians or Khajiit, unless one starts bringing real historical figures to the game.

I see your point. The thing is though, you can look at every race and link it to a real life culture. Khajiit are obviously Arabic. Argonians for me would suggest South American tribes, etc.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:06 am

For all of the real world allegories, you can thank Ken Rolston I hear. He's no longer with the company.

But there is no denying that there are some real world representations that are still present in the game. If you want a game with no real world influence, well, I'm not sure there is one.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:29 am

I must say that there are no indications of the opposite yet, but I still can't make myself playing Bretons for this very reason (even though I like very much how Bretons are designed). Can't distract from Britain. If a game contains clear connections (rip-offs) between in-game nationalities, cults, names, places, cultures, Gods and the real world ones, it just doesn't feel right. I want to be in a fantasy world.

I write it because making the game in Skyrim, may provoke clear rip-offs from the actual Nordic cultures, like Denmark, Sweden or Norway. Some games in the past were also using modified Finnish words, etc. I live in the region myself and wouldn't like seeing real life elements in game. Just in case. Thank you in advance!

It will be a big world of nothing then!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:47 am

Anyone provide a circumstance were too places are linked?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:50 am

regardless of your pleas the people and races already exist and have existed for a very long time. Your pleas will go on deaf ears.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:26 am

...

The thing of "Birger Jarl" is quite iteresting, but those other "silly examples" you call: "some creatures from Nordic Lore" ? I still don't get it. :rolleyes:

and:

Shouldn't you do this ? I mean, it was an example from you, no ?
For me it was only "relevant", because otherwise I couldn't understand your reasoning (which I still don't, to be honest).

What else should I explain to you except what I already explained. Roll your eyes as much as you want, BUT I wouldn't like to see a TES NORD, whose name is Swensson, who works in a pub Birgir Jarl, and speaks with the fake Swedish accent. And I don't worry about those two silly examples, really... How more clear can that be.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:03 am

(...) BUT I wouldn't like to see a TES NORD, whose name is Swensson, who works in a pub Birgir Jarl, and speaks with the fake Swedish accent. (...)

... and that's not going to happen in a TES game, that's all I / we are saying. So, what are you afraid of (or feel the urge to ask Beth (<- Btw. it's not Beth.Soft

) of a favor) ? (and this :rolleyes: is not meant to offend in anyway for me; you should just translate it with: "scratching my head - sadly there's no specific emoticon for this -, because I'm largely confused / don't understand

)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:31 pm

looks like you are going to be disappointed then, Arrow.

Skyrim's plot, story, and characters are all done. From what I've seen your fears are going to be realized.

Cheers :foodndrink:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:59 am

It seems folks like to generalize about the people living in the world of Nirn just as much as they do about the people of earth.

They are fictional places and races and cultures based on the imagination. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:34 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:High_Hrothgar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hro%C3%B0gar

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:26 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:High_Hrothgar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hro%C3%B0gar

Yes.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:44 am

Yes.

And the problem is... ?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:36 am

Disturbing or not, Bretons and Nords ARE associated with real people unlike all the others. All previous posters mentioned that. And thus, I would like them to be as fictional as possible (to overcome my prejudices, if you wish).

Don't worry, those similarities are only skin deep. Take a look at the art for Skyrim. The weapons aren't particularly viking, vikings never had horns on their helms, and the Nord religion and beliefs are vastly different from Scandinavian religions and beliefs. I doubt you will find Odin or Bragi or Loki anywhere in Skyrim.

And for the Bretons, again same thing. The real Bretons were a celtic tribe, not half elves (elves are not a part of celtic folklore either by the way.) Again with vastly different culture.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:51 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:High_Hrothgar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hro%C3%B0gar

And "The Imperial City" was named for the one is Oz and there are how many places in the real world called Memphis or Springfield?

Does it matter really? I mean, don't we have to use known or variations of known words when naming.

Another thing coming to my mind is how I quite like associations made with some real world things. Like Lovecraft and Hackdirt.

Sort of like Easter Eggs scattered around to be found.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:58 am

And "The Imperial City" was named for the one is Oz and there are how many places in the real world called Memphis or Springfield?

Does it matter really? I mean, don't we have to use known or variations of known words when naming.

Another thing coming to my mind is how I quite like associations made with some real world things. Like Lovecraft and Hackdirt.

Sort of like Easter Eggs scattered around to be found.

Agreed.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:45 am

You know....as other posters have said before me, everything is based on something before it.

Morrowind was one of the most original and unique worlds ive ever been in. but i can still associate it with
Egypt Culture, Aztec Culture, and a HINT of Arabian.

However....I WAS really annoyed with Oblivion and its OBVIOUS Medievil fantasy world.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:42 pm

And "The Imperial City" was named for the one is Oz and there are how many places in the real world called Memphis or Springfield?

Does it matter really? I mean, don't we have to use known or variations of known words when naming.

Another thing coming to my mind is how I quite like associations made with some real world things. Like Lovecraft and Hackdirt.

Sort of like Easter Eggs scattered around to be found.

I was just giving an example of the topic.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:56 am

looks like you are going to be disappointed then, Arrow.

Skyrim's plot, story, and characters are all done. From what I've seen your fears are going to be realized.

Cheers :foodndrink:

No problem.

What's done, is done. Especially Lore can't be changed. But I just thought that "New" Skyrim elements, which are being implemented right now or will be implemented in the future, can be done as mildly as possible, without me thinking that this thug looks like a Swede and this drunkard sounds like a Finn. I realize, of course, that gamesas guys are VERY professional. So things are going to be fine.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:58 am

No problem.

What's done, is done. Especially Lore can't be changed. But I just thought that "New" Skyrim elements, which are being implemented right now or will be implemented in the future, can be done as mildly as possible, without me thinking that this thug looks like a Swede and this drunkard sounds like a Finn. I realize, of course, that gamesas guys are VERY professional. So things are going to be fine.

Well said! No use worrying about things that are done. :clap:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:35 am

And the problem is... ?

No problems with towns, locations. More with people names and pointing nationalities within a game.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:16 pm

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:High_Hrothgar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hro%C3%B0gar

That's really interesting (thanks for the link) ... and made the game even more interesting for me, too. But it's in no way a real-world-connection the OP fears (as far as I could understand him, that is). It's based on nordic sagas and long-ago-history. - Almost the same as "fantasy", if you ask me, but could never count as "real life elements", imo.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:11 am

I can see some other studio trying make some superficial connection to the real world with hokey accents and stereotypical idioms but not Bethesda.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:27 pm

The Nords are superficially Scandinavians, I see vikings when I look at them. But that doesn't stop me from playing them. I am a Scandinavian myself btw.

Technically the real world Breton equvilant are a Celtic people from France, they even share the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_people. They're same type as Welsh, Scottish, and Irish.

But this is only superficial as far as lore goes the Nords and Bretons are as far removed from their Celtic/Scandinavian inspirations as you can get.

Dutch bro here, Scandinavia equals awesome. Scandinavia is a really cool guy, eh haz loats of snows and doesn't afraid of anything

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:14 pm

Can't be avoided, and really should be embraced. So many cultures around the world have awesome histories/practices/architecture/etc. Why not take them and recombine in a fun new way?