Finally got the chance to play some Skyrim over at a buddy of mine. http://www.femlob.com/writing/bethesda-and-level-scaling/.

Warning for the fan boys and girls among us: do not click link unless you can deal with someone criticizing the hell out of your GOTY.

And they censored "fan boy" on this forum? Really? That's just sad.

Edit: Since I've already been getting way too much of this, I'll put up another warning: do not bother citing normally reliable sources like the UESP because they have no more access to the Creation Kit than you or I, which is none. And while we're at it, don't bother citing Bethesda commentary either; there is a very distinct difference between what they promised and what people experience in the game.

I love skyrim and It's leveling system. Some may say it's broken, maybe it is, but I'm enjoying it and that's really all that matters to me.
I leveled smithing up every opportunity I got, which might have made things harder for me in the beginning because all my combat stats were lower than average. Lucky for me I enjoy a hard game.

What the hell is this article talking about? Enemies don't level WITH YOU! They have STATIC LEVELS!

Why do people keep saying they level with you? A Giant is like level 30, if you're level 10 they will clobber you. If you're level 50, you'll clobber them.

Oblivion they levelled up right alongside you. It's different.

WTF are you people on?

Actually I loved the situations where I was forced to deal with an extremely powerful enemy that forced me load many times as well. If it wouldn't be for that broken AI Bethesda implemented, it would have actually felt like a challenge, with this AI it however felt more like a game of hide & seek.

Still I agree that level adjustment just doesn't work for non-combat characters. And I don't see what's so hard about calculating the difficulty based on the skill level of combat skills.

Sure.

We'll see about that once Bethesda finally releases the Creation Kit.

I understand and agree with your point, but it's not as dire as you make it out to be. Those "useless" skills are actually supporting your combat by adding extra damage or effects.

Also, you'd probably be taken more seriously if you gave the game a more thorough playing than a half hour.

*edit* I think your opinion is still a little rooted in Oblivion, where it was more of an issue due to more noncombat related skills.

Giants are an exception.

Outdoor enemies are mainly set in level, but I think 95% of all dungeons scale to your current level.

+10,000 to the OP. ppl that dont get this system is broken are re re's. if you put 1 perk across the board for 15 levels, you'd have to quit and restart. The developers said you could play as anyone, which is a lie. Thank god theres modders.

Never said they were useless. Just said that if you choose to prioritize them over your combat skills, they'll getting you killed because your enemies will outgun you at every step.



If you've ever played Oblivion, half an hour is actually way more than you'd ever need to realise that Bethesda dropped the ball. Again.



Pretty much.

Or just walk next to a giant...



Anyway, I still cannot stop mentioning the how level scaling was always Bethesda's forte.

Represent since 1994.

I actually quite like the level scaling and it makes more sense to me as it is a "check and balance" system. Time spent on crafting means time not spent on other skills.

I think most people who hated the system is the system will never give those player the god like feeling they so desperately wanted.

Bethesda make game worlds, they are ATROCIOUS making RPG systems and game mechanics. The levelling system and balance is terrible for an RPG, sorry, hype or not bethesda are not good at this at all.

Thank god I dropped for the PC version modders can clean up this mess.

This just in:

OP doesn't Google before creating opinions.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Leveling

EXTRA!:

OP forgets to level up sneak. Or illusion. Or alteration. Or to bring a companion.

I dont want to struggle killing bandits and ice wolves after im lvl 50 and defeated alduin. It makes no sense. I cant get enveloped in a system where all the enemies are difficult always even after alduin. No sense of progression. Plus like i said, you cant play as anyone you want.

"Various aspects of the game are leveled. This means that as your character increases in level, some enemies become more challenging but also the quality of the items you find becomes better. However, the leveling system in Skyrim has been altered from that used in Oblivion, in response to criticisms of Oblivion's leveling system.

Different locations in Skyrim have different inherent difficulties. In other words, some dungeons are designed to be too difficult for low-level characters to enter. More challenging dungeons are generally located at higher elevations, meaning that early in the game players may want to avoid mountainous regions. However, more difficult dungeons contain better rewards. In addition, some high-quality items can be randomly found even early in the game.

The level of a given dungeon is fixed the first time you enter it. Therefore, places that you enter early in the game will always contain relatively weak enemies, even if you return to the same dungeon at the end of the game."

Most don't scale to you. The OP's article makes no sense, and is factually incorrect.



You guys are giving me a headache. THAT'S HOW IT WORKED IN OBLIVION! In Oblivion everything leveled up WITH you. Now, they DON'T. I got destroyed by Snow Bears and now at level 28 I can kill them easier.

Please guys, stop bleating lies. It's driving me insane.

Unless they somehow have access to the Creation Kit, all information on that page is based on Bethesda's comments.

Until objective verification can be realized, I'll trust my own experience over Bethesda's marketed words.



Are you always this gullible, or are you just putting in some extra effort?

This article isn't about me having difficulties with the game. It's about there being systemic issues that shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Yeah, anyone who focuses on them to the exclusion of combat skills is going to get stomped, but they do support your combat effectiveness in the appropriate amounts.

I did play the hell out of Oblivion. I had multiple min/maxed, wacky major skilled, cap yourself around level 22 characters. It was a little out of hand. If I were pissed about it, I'd probably react negatively after even a whiff of the same from Skyrim. However, since I'm playing these games at least as much for combat as for the all the exploration and "OOOoooo" moments, I guess I'm not as bothered by it.

*edit* Sorry, I just can't get past the 30 minutes. You know about Oblivion, true, but you really need to experience more of the new game to have an informed opinion. I'm not even saying you're not right. It's just that until you give it a fair shake, it'll seem like you're still stuck on Oblivion.

Sorry man, but you are completely wrong with this... in Skyrim only certain characters level up with you, not all of them... most of the time it is bosses of the dungeons so they will at least guarantee good fight... remaining of others are fixed level.

This just in:

OP makes most ironic post seen in past three weeks.



I put forth extra effort for people who are ignorant enough to hold their feelings as objective verification.

EDIT: Not to mention that - if you're going to make a character that is purely non-combat (alchemy, pickpocket, smithing) - then you're not going to fight. So you're not going to be tanking against Draugr's anyway, and you'll generally be fighting regular bandits and wolves anywhere.

It's like complaining that you're not allowed to instantly craft dragon armor at smithing level five.

Though, please, show me the character that has only leveled non-combat skills and has decided to then try to clear out every dungeon with their fists.

x

You're wrong though. When I was level 15 I ran into Snow Bears, destroyed me. I'm level 28, I kill them now. Clearly they didn't level with me or the difficulty wouldn't have changed. Same with bandits, same with everything.

There was one super-bandit in a cave, I killed every other one with little difficulty and he could ONE shot me. Plus, if I leave and go back his level remains the same.

So, you're wrong. And really, if you level only Alchemy and try to fight and find it hard...that makes you the dumb one.

I have read through your comments and I disagree to some extent, I am not a really devoted fan, but I do like the Elderscrolls games.

The level scaling of Skyrim is different to the Oblivion setup, as I have explained below.

The scaling of enemies are area specific now, not generalistic. For example outside an enemy will have a level range say, level 5-10. The level the enemy will be at when you see them will be the closest level to your own. so if your character is level 1-5 then the enemy will be level 5, if your character is level 27 then the enemy will be level 10. The only time it scales with you will be when your character is between the levels 5-10, so that it matches your level. To simplify the area specific levels Bethesda have said the higher up you are the Higher the level ranges (although this is not exclusive)

Enemies within inside cells such as caves work the same, the dungeon itself will have a level range, say 20-25, and as above depending on what level you enter the dungeon at will depend where it is within that range. The difference here is that the Dungeon level is locked at the relevant level the first time you enter the dungeon and will be that level for the rest of the game. So if you are level 22 when entering this dungeon the level will lock at 22, if you come back when you are level 25, the dungeon will still be set at level 22.

With regards to the 'Broken' non combat skills gimping characters, I totally disagree with this as most non-combat skills have an effect in combat situations (no not all, speechcraft for example)

But alchemy for instance, allows you to craft cheap high level Health potions to keep you alive or potions to add to your weapons for more damage.

Smithing, allows you to improve weapons and armor for more damage/protection.

Enchanting, as above.

Alteration - Protection

the list goes on,

I think the majority of people sayin the game is broken are expecting a simple hack and slash, and these games are not that simple, which for me is what I enjoy about them.

So I said my own feelings are objective now, did I? That's just charming. Oh, wait, I didn't. But that's okay, no need to bother with details.

People are getting sledgehammered across the board with the same experiences they had in Oblivion, myself included. Until the Creation Kit is released and we can verify that I'm talking out of my ass, I'm going out on a limb and assume that Bethesda didn't deliver what they promised they would. Which has happened before.



If I'd had a dollar for every time someone assumed that I'm complaining about the game being too hard instead of trying to get a rational discussion going, I could have built an additional wing at every psychiatric hospital on the planet to house all of them.

Thank you, jesus. It's driving me nuts that they ignore the facts and spew BS. All you have to do is play to find the enemies don't scale with you. Fight a troll at level 10, then fight one at 30. If you tell me it's the same, you're lying. That's all there is to it.