Fix the dialogue wheel.


I say this because for all intents and purposes there at more or less only two dialogue options - persuasion attempt or not persuasion attempt.


Sure you can say someone to aggravate the other person, and every once and a while your companion will like or dislike something you said but those thing have little other effect. Even if you irritate someone enough with your words for them to break the conversation, I've always just been able to restart it.


I really miss the occasional chance with a high strength character to Intimidate through speech, or some of the brainy high Intellignce speech checks.


Taking SPECIAL related speech checks out of the game was the biggest single mistake Bethesda made with Fallout 4. And please don't get me wrong here, love the game, just thing to give feedback on the single thing I would most like to see changed.

Oh, you mean reintroduce actual Role Playing to the Game, with meaningful changes in a quest's direction or how it can be completed, via interesting and varied speech options in the quest dialogue? Perhaps even choices with different consequences and outcomes? Dunno, that's a pretty tall order...

I honestly don't think they will change how it is now...that would seem to be a drastic reworking of dialogues between everybody...they would have to get all the voice actors back to say a ton of new lines, and then implement them into the game through a patch, or part of a DLC...don't see it happening..I think we are stuck with it until FO5...

What's worse, persuasion attempt usually warrants nothing more than a small amount of xp and a slightly different response. If 6 charisma wasn't such a requirement, Charisma would be pretty much entirely useless. There's not a single instance I can think of where charisma affects a quest in any significant way whatsoever. In fact, I think it should be patched out entirely.

There are quests it affects - usually it comes down to skipping a fetch-quest or reduces your requirements do something. Like entering vault 81 - passing that speech check saves you 3 cores.


But yeah, as far as quest/plot lines there doesn't seem to be two paths to the end of the quest.

I actually think a Speech check is made via the level of my Charisma which covers the Speech skill, done automatically in effect, though I have no proof of this, but judging from my Speech options and failure to persuade a person to pay-up her debt, with my very low Charisma, I'm assuming that my complete failure was down to my low Charisma/Speech... the better Speech options of what better to say, not being given at that low level, makes sense. Rather than falsify better Speech by juggling with the wheel, or whatever.

well, that's all that the skill checks did in the old game as well... a different response and back to the usual conversation

I don't really get why everyone wants this feature so much? I'm all in for improving the dialogue, but the skill checks were never that big of a feature anyways?

Disagree on your last point. The biggest mistake they made was making so many quests combat focused, followed closely by the overall lack of speech checks based on SPECIAL or perks. You'd think things like Medic, Local Leader, Science! Chemist, Nuclear Physicist, Idiot Savant, and other similar perks would add more dialogue checks. Hell, even Lady Killer/Black Widow don't add new dialogue options, just make them easier.

There's more than you'd think. And there's at least one that makes a MAJOR difference in a plot. There are so many quests that you just may not have seen it yet.

There is some truth to this. It would be very difficult for them to go back.


What they could do is improve quests/quest dialog options in future DLC. Someone bought up a good point that local leader/lady killer etc don't bring up Better options. Could be a possibility for add on content though...

I do agree with you that the dialogue wheel in Fallout 4 is terrible and previous games has done it better... But dialogue doesn't make the role playing. Honestly, I roleplay better in Fallout 4 than in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Overall, the roleplaying has been improved due to the other aspects of the game has been either improved or at least changed enough to better support roleplaying.

um ya, I have nothing to add, 10/10 poast and thread, it would have been GOTY for sure if they did that.

Bethesda isn't going to downgrade the dialogue system to the over complicated mess it was in previous Fallout games just because you made a post on a forums... the world doesn't revolve around you... you know? If you don't like it then simply don't play the game and stick to the old Fallouts while the millions of Fallout fans who aren't stuck wearing nostalgia goggles have fun.

If being able to have more than 4 options and seeing full sentences strikes you as an "over complicated mess," I'm really not sure what to tell you. Perhaps this will sum it up in a way that's easier for you to process:

Yep and it won't happen. For me a more down to earth fix would be the darn repeatable Settlement quests. If I get just one more I am going to pay the Kidnappers to keep the victim. Not only does a 200+ defense not help but I can load up the NPC with better equipment then I have and they still get repeatedly kidnapped. Please fix the Settlement quests.

No having a dialogue system with a bunch of redundent and useless filler topic that lead no where is over complicated for what it needs to be and waste resources... and if you can't understand that saying sarcastic is going to make your character do a sarcastic response then i don't know what to tell you.

Role playing is already in the game, far more than something like speech checks. Dialogue is not role playing, get that out of your head and look at all the different RPGsd throughout history. This goes all the way back to the original RPGs like D&D and Wizardry, as well as Ys, Phantasy Star, and pretty much any other RPG. Dialogue and different paths have nothing at all to do with RPGs. Those elements are fundamental to Japanese adventures and visual novels, not RPGs. Hybrid franchises such as Langrisser, Growlanser, and Agarest War include the elements you seem to think are RPG elements but that's because they are hybrids of Japanese adventure games and RPG games.

As for FO4 and dialogue, it's fine, certainly better than meaningless skill checks on characters who will max all skills and SPECIAL anyway. Of course, they can expand it further and probably will, assuming they don't get sick of the vocal minority complaining about their games.

What you call redundant and "useless filler" is what others find interesting when conversing with another character in the game world and is all part of building that world. From gaining a better understanding of lore, hearing the opinions and beliefs of those characters in the game world, and what they mean for the main conflict at hand. Dialogue that led to hearing all of this was for the most part optional as well, with there were plenty of dialogue options at times that allowed your character to be uninterested and get to the point if you so desired, or jump straight to combating with someone instead of persuading them through speech. Sometimes the exposition of certain NPCs would be a bit too extensive and there would be no ways around it (quite prevalent in NV DLC, though I personally didn't mind), but for the most part it was a fair and reasonable design for dialogue in a RPG, that allowed plenty of dialogue options for those who wanted to hear it, and options for those that were uninterested. On top of that the benefits your character stats could play in these conversations that could lead to different approaches with certain NPCs and quests, which made it all the more interesting. No need for my character in Fallout 3 to go the the RobCo Factory to gain a better understanding of robots, he was a Robotics Expert and could tell Moira all there is to know.

But I don't know why I bother. I've seen plenty of your posts to determine you're one of those not to waste time arguing with. But still, just wanted to point this out regardless.

I would be happy if they brought back SPECIAL affecting dialogue options (and other things). I can think of only one case where your stats (namely intelligence) factored into doing something, though it was non-dialogue related.


And I agree, choices did seem much more limited this time around.


While I like voice acted protagonists, one of my biggest complaints about them has always been the limited scope of options. You think back to a game like Baldur's Gate where there was a plethora of options in each conversation, allowing depth of character many different outcomes. Even something like romancing Juhani in BG2 was a long process of making the right choices. Then Mass Effect came around and due to everything being voiced, dialogue options became much more limited. Romances were boiled down from long, heartfelt conversations to a few pick up lines. It's the biggest flaw of voiced protagonists, imo.

I don't fully like the dialogue system and voice character, but the dialogue wheel can give more variety in results than you give credit for, just take the random encounter of Art as an example, there are more than 2 possible outcomes in that conversation, and that is simply a random encounter.

Its not like they are going to patch it out of the game, or try to fix it with a patch. Its part of the core game design, but it can be made better with DLC's. Hopefully they can flesh out the system abit more, make the dialogue more varied, add options from perks etc. Also i feel like there are plenty of options to estasblish your character when doing the main quest and talking to companions, to bad it does not always extend past that point.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/? for the Ps4.

You're referring to "100% roleplaying in your head, unsupported by actual RPG mechanics ingame". Daydreamer roleplaying. All fine and dandy, but I prefer my RPG's to have more RPG mechanics and options and opportunities actually built into it. Unfortunately, Beth has always fumbled the ball in that department. Obsidian showed how it could be done right in FONV, but that was sadly a fluke.

All that is accomplished without useless filler dialogue... stop defending proof design...

How was it done right in NV? They wasted so much resources with useless filler dialogue and the game had a boring world as a result.

This attitude bothers me a lot. The whole point of gaming is to be creative. Especially with RPGs. If you're going to write off everything that isn't explicitly spelled out in the story or the gameplay mechanics, try and think about what you're writing off in every other RPG and especially older ones, or even the damn tabletop games that started this.

And before anyone says "go and daydream in Call of Duty or whatever then", there's a lot more room in Fallout 4 and any Bethesda RPG to use your imagination without directly contradicting the story the game is trying to play.