This may just be me, but does anyone else think Bethesda's games are getting less and less active, and more and more show?

Don't understand what I'm talking about? Let me explain. Bethesda's first two games (Arena and Daggerfall) Were huge. A lot to do, right? Morrowind, my favorite, is very big as well. A lot to do, more interesting story, etc. I also loved the feel of it. Morrowind has the feel of a blighted island in pain, which is amazing.

Now Oblivion. Theres way less to do than there is in morrowind. The number of quests were reduced somewhat, and most weren't even that interesting. Everything was predictable, the storyline was short, and, believe it or not, it got boring. *gasp*!!! Yes, a bethesda game got boring. I can still go on Morrowind and have fun, but I can't go on Oblivion without knowing every little detail. The terrain is beautiful, yes, but that's the best thing really. Also, the Dunmer are less scary and cool and more english and wimpy. What the hell?

Now Fallout 3. Better than Oblivion, I think, but still not a lot to do. Quests were more interesting, but I still think it could have more. Though I can't compare too much due to the differences between the two. I think Fallout 3 could have been more depressing. It's a wasteland for hell's sake.

The thing that amazes me is that people say Morrowind had "Too much" stuff to do, which they hated. How could you hate that? You enjoy beating a game in a day and finding it boring the next? It's not like you even HAD to do everything.

I may be either smart, or completely absentminded. But does anyone think Bethesda should focus less on graphic detail and more on gameplay aspects and story?

That's all your personal opinion, because I don't agree with you.
I'm playing Oblivion right now, like, RIGHT now, I'm looking at my screen on my flatscreen, and oblivion is on it.
Oblivion only gets boring if you let it get boring. I still play Oblivion almost everyday, and I'm ordering Morrowind in a few days.
Bethesda is going down a great path, and they always have. Not every game is going to be an advancement 100% in every aspect.
They are going to improve on certain areas, maybe losing focus on one area, but making others better, and that flip flops as games go on, happens with every series.
Morrowind had an amazing story, and ok graphics. Oblivion had a great story, and amazing graphics.
Maybe TES:V will be a combination of both? You don't know, and neither do I, as nothing literally has been announced yet. Time will tell.

That's my point, I just feel like after every game, the graphics get better, But the story gets worse. I don't really want that to happen.

The funny thing is you sound like this is a breaking revelation. About half these boards have made topics that say the same thing yours does, so yeah, other people agree.

That's just how it is... It's the same for every single game company out there. The more graphically detailed something gets, the less indepth and comprehensive the game becomes. It's a simple matter of technical and financial limitations. The important part is that as graphics keep getting better and better, more and more is being allowed for events and scenes which would otherwise be impossible to manage... For instance, compare Oblivion which only has one ingame cinematic type event, with Fallout 3 which has several. As the top rises, so does the bottom, you just don't notice it because you're caught up in how freaking cool everything looks.

In contrast, if someone showed you a game which is far more complex, better written, and in depth than Daggerfall, but is text based or features 16 color sprite based graphics, you would likely run like hell and never look back.

Yeah man. Agreed.
It's a trend for the new games these days, and we're pretty much screwed from here on out.

The general consensus is that Oblivion was a step in the wrong direction and Fallout 3 was a step back in the right direction. And it's true, Fallout 3 improved upon many many things that Oblivion screwed up. I think Bethesda knows what it did wrong with Oblivion and will fix it in TESV. If TESV is more like Oblivion and less like Fallout 3 and Morrowind, THEN people should start to worry. But Bethesda should definitely be able to redeem themselves with TESV.

I'll agree with that, but no one can say Oblivion was a "bad" game, it was hella fun, and hella successful. It's still fun.

no, i would probably cry and embrace it, like a child that meets his long lost mother.

i am not easily impressed by graphics, never was, never will be.

i play my games for for the story they tell, not the visuals they put up.

Oh yeah I mean I liked Oblivion a lot, but having played all 3 games in reverse order (Fallout 3, Oblivion then Morrowind) I can definitely recognize the misteps Bethesda made from Morrowind to Oblivion and what they fixed from Oblivion in Fallout 3.

I agree with what you are saying. As was mentioned before, there are probably a couple dozen threads on this forum that discuss this very problem. Many of us Morrowhiners are hoping that Beth will see the mistakes they made with Oblivion and rectify them. Personally, though, I don't think we'll see any ES titles that will have the same amount of depth that Morrowind, or for that matter, Daggerfall had. But in this case, I really hope that I'm wrong. :shrug:

Oh, by the way, welcome to the forum, and have a http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/c/c4/Fishystick.jpg.

I completely agree with you. However, I disagree with some people here in that I don't think Fallout is getting better. It's probably because I couldn't get into Fallout due to it being an uninteresting wasteland. But that's a different topic.

I don't see game mechanics being improved in Fallout 3. It had a terrible story, the side quests were pretty stale as well. The game mechanics were "Oblivion with guns" vat was overpowered and annoying, any tweaks were minor, and no graphical improvement that I noticed.

Anyway, my point, nothing changed between to two games. So that gives me low hopes for TES V. I'm still cautiously optimistic that gamesas will do another face, heel, turn, but I doubt it. The only way I'd start drooling and begging madly for TES V is if it was certified if it was taking place in the Summerset Isles(Altmerz <3) and Michael Kirkbride was working on it(Badass lore <3). Also, if the entire soundtrack consisted of Beatles songs... yeah... at that point I'd be picketing gamesas building, demanding they release it this instance or I'd go bat[censored] on them.

Man, I got off topic.

Meh. I wouldn't say Oblivion is a bad game. In fact, it was a great game -- just not when you compare it side by side with Morrowind, IMO. I probably put in about 300 or so hours with Oblivion, and I got bored before finishing the main quest. This is largely due to the level scaling and the repetitive dungeons and scenery, but also for all the 'little things' that were left out between Morrowind and Oblivion. I've also never played more than one character. I can't honestly say that Oblivion is still fun for me. I'll try to pick it up again from time to time, but I just can't seem to get into it. With Morrowind, however, I've probably put in over 1000 hours with a few different characters, and I doubt that I've discovered everything there is to discover.

How did you form a proper judgment of it if you "couldn't get into it?" I played Fallout 3 to death, and then played Oblivion. I would constantly come across problems in the game that I wanted them to fix, but then realized they already fixed in Fallout 3. For example:

-Containers that the player doesn't own no longer reset in Fallout 3.
-There were fewer quests, but they were more varied and less boring than Oblivion's.
-The locations in the wasteland all felt unique, and most had their own story, even if it was just a note or a skeleton laying in the same position it was in when the person died when the bombs dropped. Unlike in Oblivion where there were forts, caves and ruins everywhere that all felt the same.
-The UI was easier to use than Oblivion's.
-This may have been small, but there was a keyring! No more scrolling through hundreds of keys to get to other items, keys had their own category.

I could go on. Fallout 3 was definitely a step in the right direction, even if it was just a small step.

I completely disagree. Morrowind was good yes, but Oblivion was the better game IMO.

Its all a matter of taste and what you are looking for in a game.

I consider Oblivion the best game i has ever played.

I hate it when people make it sound like a fact and not their own opinion that Morrowind is the better of the two. Yeah sure, most people on this board do indeed seems to consider Morrowind to be superior but you know what? this board dosn't represent every person which has ever played the 2 games.



So... because he didn't play it to death like you, he isnt allowed to have his own opinion?

You don't have to put 20 or more hours into a game in order to have the right to judge if you like it or not. I didn't play the game that much either for the same reason, i just couldn't get into it. It was borring. And yes i do consider it to be worse than Oblivion... and Morrowind. I don't care if i didn't finnish the game, i played enough to know that i didn't really find it interesting.

oh and for the reasons you give to why it is better than Oblivion, i believe its a matter of opinion whatever the quests was more interesting and whatever you find the landscapes unique and interesting, to me it was just borring and i disagree with the dungeons all being the same in Oblivion but ofcause, thats all a matter of opinion. I didn't find the user interface to be better either, actually i think it was worse but i should say that i played the game on PS3.

A step in the wrong direction? Morrowind has its strengths and weaknesses and so does Oblivion. I prefer not having level-scaling, having more slots for armor/clothing, more skills, and being able to combine armor and clothing, like in Morrowind, but I also prefer better combat/magic/stealth, better graphics, better animations, more role-playing opportunities for certain classes(including my favorite class), and horses, like in Oblivion. There were many things in Morrowind that I want TES V to have, but I would have no problem with another Oblivion. I love all TES games. All have their strengths and weaknesses, yet there are people on these forums who seem to worship Morrowind, but hate Oblivion, as well as the other way around. The two games are very similar, yet there is that great divide. Why not just give all TES games a chance and play them for what they are? Morrowind felt like Oblivion to me, but of course the two games aren't going to be exactly the same. Also, graphics have always been a major part of TES series(and video games in general). Graphics are not dumbing down TES series.

Vats is meant to be the makn form of combat in order to suit the fallout series purists

I kind of agree OP. What I mean is that yes, Oblivion was a mainstreamed version of Morrowind, and yes that really angered me. But instead of assuming they are on the wrong path, I just look at it as a mistep. Fallout seems to be getting back to the right path. Though it did feel just as "empty" as Oblivion, it was an improvement nonetheless. It's a shame that complexity is viewed as a bad thing nowadays, all you hear these days are words like 'streamlined' 'more accessible' 'easy-to-learn, difficult-to-master(which is never the case..)'. And these things are looked on as a good things. As if we all wish that our complex, strategic rpg's would slowly turn into Fable. I really hope Bethesda don't further streamline their next game. I don't know what I would do if I loaded up TES V and found out they removed EVEN MORE skills, spell and weapons from the game and replace them with "sword", "bow", "magic" or something along those lines.


I never fret about story with Bethesda games. Not that the stories aren't good, it's just that it's never been a focus for any of the games, and I've never really felt involved. What's more appealing to me is the lore, and having integrated with side-quests, random wanderings etc. Part of the reason Oblivion felt empty was that there was no real point, or substance to many of the quests or dungeons aside from completing them and collecting a leveled reward.

FYI, I do love Oblivion, sort of like I love a sibling, in that, by loving them....I also hate them

As long as the first pocket guide is their format, I don't see how they could make build anything worse than a grade A world.

I think Beth tried to fix what was "wrong" with Morrowind, essentially the aspects that would make the first 5 mins determine whether the player gave up immediately, or continued to play for years. They wanted to increase it's appeal, not only for the sake of profits, but for an overall better game. However, they stepped too far in one direction. Although they gained the playership of people who have before been turned off, they alienated some folks who preferred complexity and were willing to deal with occasionally frustrating mechanics for the sake of a balanced game that rewarded level progression.

I'm not mad with Oblivion, but I am disappointed. I thought Fable was pathetic because it had maybe had 12 weapons in the entire game. Peter Molyneaux promised us a living, breathing world, and he can only drum up a dozen weapons, and 2 sets of armor.

When Oblivion chose to drop spears, crossbows, thrown weapons, certain armor choices...I felt like we were headed in that direction. By the numbers, Morrowind had more quests, more factions, more caves, more dialogue, more voice actors. How could you possible regress from that and consider it an improvement?

Anyways, I'm hopeful Bethesda has recognized that, and although they have never publicly acknowledged some of those mistakes, such as the level scaling, it seems like Fallout showed improvement. They are a good company that knows how to make a good game. So I am fairly confident that TESV will have the approachability of Oblivion and the depth of Morrowind.

PS, I think they put too much stock in "completely reinventing" the series each game. Yes, that made sense at first considering the humble beginnings, but at some point you are going to develop a winning formula, a certain way to implement game mechanics, and to stray from that for purely artistic reasons is hubris.

The bickering will stop now. The more contentious the topic, the more important the need to observe decency and order. And members have not been doing so in this thread. Posts deleted.

Completely agreed, particularly with the last part.

NO!

Anybody who does something new is taking risks. The good path is always to perform self-critic and learn from the failures.

Therefore it isn't fair to say that Bethesda is "going down a bad path". But it's important to send a signal that they can only be successful with their existing and loyal community behind.

And there, being honest and large is a key. It tells us that their ambitions and ideas for a great game doesn't take a backseat if it comes to business decisions.

What I expect in the near future are some official news about TES V. So please let us know the ideas, set an initial timeline – this will rev up things for all of us.

like the Civilization series.