LOL another one. Magic isnt easy enough for you?

Interesting. Apparently the fact that there are quite literally hundreds of threads like this one is actually somehow not indicative of a major flaw in Skyrim's gameplay, but rather that magic users just can't play the game properly. Yeah, that's definitely the most parsimonious explanation for it. :rolleyes:

Actually the fury spells also do indirect damage like conjuration but are within the illusion school rather then conjuration. Not so great against a single target admit-ably but then you're not an archer, you're a mage. Alteration has Paralyze, while it is an expert leveled spell, it's OPed in what it does. Also clearly you aren't meant to be able to fury a boss so it's not underpowered in how you have to select the weaker minions.



No I'd compare this more to a fighter having to use archery which you will do when fighting dragons. Until you get Dragonrend it's quite difficult to face dragons as a melee since they love to stay in the air and so you have to use a different form of damage. In other words melee fighters are forced to use alternative skills, however you don't have to put perks into archery but you still occasionally have to use a bow and arrow. There is also a couple of boss fights for the quest "Forbidden Legend" which is near impossible using any type of melee attack. This boss is Sigdis who you have to fight twice. he teleports around a lot as an archer, creates dopplegangers all capable of using Disarm and the 3rd tier of Unrelenting Force. Overall I don't buy the argument that conjuration and destruction are as similar as 1 handed and 2 handed weapons. Primarily since you can use both destruction spells while already having a summon out.. you can not use a 1-handed sword at the same time as a 2-handed sword or even a bow which is of course different.



Destruction is probably my 5th most used skill on my current main character and it doesn't feel useless, it feels slow but then again my character is more melee based then magic based... just for clarity sake, in order my most used skills would go, 1-handed, block, heavy armor, restoration, destruction, archery and conjuration (I just love watching flaming wolves blow up on ice wraiths...).



I've had to get 2-handed sword to level 100, why? because too level up in this game you need to level the skills... only using 1 tree is going to limit you from that fact alone. I have zero perks in 2-handed sword but if you want to get more powerful you need to learn it all by the end, even if you have no perks in it.



The skill isn't broken, it just focuses more on area effects rather then single targets, which really is what magic should be more about... the problem is that there should still be something for single targets but this doesn't mean the skill is "broken". Which is why I said before the AoE spells should be made more AoE based and then adept versions of the novice spells added.



The problem is more like that magic just starts a bit too overpowered and so you lose that feeling of being a bit overpowered rather then it being dramatically underpowered. The Apprentice spells still hurt high leveled mobs a noticeable amount, more then a simple/normal sword strike does with a deadric sword*. On the issue of that drop in power, my opinion is that adept and expert leveled spells give little for focusing on only one a single enemy and focus too much on AoE which only helps if there is 2~5 enemy in front of you. Because of this all the spells at adept of higher have a magicka cost which isn't all that brilliant and so costs a lot more to cast them then needs be. Of course with enough destruction skill you do cut the cost of those spells a lot...

* assuming no upgrades (IE legendary)

And here we go again with people not getting it. Nobody says they are just using destruction, they say that destruction is underpowered.

It's basically an undeniable fact that any given mage would be more effective with 1 handed weapons or archery than they are with destruction. Therefore destruction isn't as good as it should be.

I knew I should not have rolled a mage. I've already svck so many hours into my game, I refuse to start over.

Its not an undeniable fact...its a subjective statement...many factors are involved including level, perks taken, enchantment level, enchantments used, etc.

If you focus on just destruction the game will not reach its full potential...just like if you played a warrier and only worked on 1 handed and not on armor or blocking you won't reach your potential.

Me thinks the game is more complicated than some people can appreciate.

Its a bit like pushing on a door that says pull and complaining that the door can't be both pushed and pulled to open.

Why not? There is nothing wrong with mages at all :vaultboy: i thought that Destruction was underpowered at one point aswell... But i was just doing it wrong~

They are not just focusing on destruction, Did you not read my whole post or did you just read the part you italicized?

A mage who has focused on the skills Alteration, Restoration, Conjuration, and Destruction will not be as powerful in combat as a mage who has focused on Alteration, Restoration, Conjuration and One Handed or Archery.

PERIOD

A mage in combat will be able to heal, lay down thrown spells, lay down spells on the ground, summon high powered allies, resurrect high powered enemies, etc.
Period.

Yeah, what's your point?

I didn't say mages were bad, I said destruction isn't working well. A mage with a sword or bow can do almost all of those same things AND can do more direct damage to enemies.

What's more, if you're doing your damage with a sword or bow, you can save more magicka for your supporting spells since you don't have to use any of it to damage the enemy.

I completely agree! Destruction needs a major overhaul - please do something in the next patch!

This is a very good point, one of the best I've seen really since many people say to use conjuration as well but as stated, it's an entirely different playstyle. I made a mage and have been focusing on Destruction, Restoration, Alteration, and Enchanting. I didn't use conjuration because I don't want to feel like or play a summoner/pet class. It should be perfectly viable, I think, to be effective with the schools of magic and skills I have chosen and from what I've been reading that may not be the case.

This is a great idea. I know no fighter would want to be limited in their choice of style based on lack of proficiency with their choice of weapon. It does not make any sense that mages should have greatly reduced power in the only direct damage magic school there is. Its almost like taking a weapon away from a warrior...

why save magica for supporting spells when you can make or buy a potion to both fortify and regenerate magica and can use them to replentish magica during battle, especially when you have an ally there summoned or resurrected or just along for battle?

It's not that the destruction spells are bad, It's that destruction doesn't SCALE at all. Which basically means as you reach your strongest spells, you can't get any better from that skill. So, as you level that skill gets weaker because, enemies level as well. In a RPG you should never feel like your getting weaker each level. I'm baffled as well in an RPG a skill doesn't scale.

People complain about destruction being viable, sure if you exploit the enchanting system. Even then other damage dealing skills will still be better then destruction. It's sad all Bethesda had to do is to make a 35+ character to see how bad destruction was. So, they didn't test the ENTIRE skill at high levels? Thats sad.

My thoughts are that I hated destruction before enchanting the mana cost down significantly. After I got expert spells I felt overpowered as hell. Like you said, spell damage doesn't scale, and those expert and master tier spells are designed for level 40+ enemies. Now that I've going up against the highest level enemies now (they don't go above like 45ish) they now feel to be doing about the right amount of damage. Its challenging and i'm on master difficulty so I expect it to be challenging. When I'm not in a remarkable situation, I don't expect to have to spell-zerker with potions and poisons. When I do run into those situations, I do like to use those, but I always save before hand and beat it both ways. First without potions and poisons, then with potions and poisons and rip them a new strip.

The way it works is different from oblivion and morrowind but its growing on me. I do miss spell-crafting but if they added it then this game would be entirely too easy. Flames/frostbite/sparks get replaced with much better versions in expert tier as do the bolts. Chain lightning/fireball/icestorm are still useful at highest level range. What really got left behind were runes.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people are missing the point. Destruction is demonstrably underpowered. This is neither a matter of opinion nor a claim that has yet to be quantified; this is a matter of fact and is not up for debate.

-Destruction is the only school of magic that deals direct damage. It doesn't matter if you like supplementing yourself with Alteration or Illusion or if you like your summons to dish out the hits and take the heat, the only way for the PC to deal magical damage to anyone is through Destruction spells.

-Unlike other combat skills, which can benefit from all three crafting skills, Destruction can only benefit from Enchanting (and depending on who you ask, in a rather gamebreaking manner--I personally do not like the -100% spell cost).

-Unlike the benefits other combat skills receive, Destruction does not gain a boost to power or DPS, only spell cost. While you can potentially cast forever, you will never, ever, under any circumstances deal any more damage than the written damage output. It's not possible without mods for Destruction spells to deal more damage than they do.

-Given equal stats and fully completed perk trees, Destruction will always deal less damage than any other combat skill.

This is not up for debate, folks. Give your piece, for these are hard facts. Friendly input I like, "you don't know how to play the game properly" gets reported :brokencomputer:


Edit: The other three combat skills (One Handed, Two Handed and Archery) are obviously balanced with each other in both potential damage and even similar perks. For the record, Block, Sneak and other things are not combat skills, but can supplement combat; I'm aware that sneak attacks are awesome, blocking is almost essential and poisoned weapons work wonders, but they aren't combat skills. Destruction, on that note, is not balanced with the other combat skills; it seems to be balanced with other magic schools, right down to similar perks. On one hand, that's sensible, but on the other, it's a fundamentally different magic with completely different usage; unlike Restoration or Illusion, Destruction isn't used for direct defense or battlefield-changing tactics, it's the offensive skill. Balancing Destruction with Alteration, therefore, is about as useful as balancing Archery with block or One Handed with Speech.

If destruction gets buffed, make it less powerful early on.

Reduce magicka costs for the spells via perks and wear enchanted apparel that continues to cut down destro costs. Once you have a virtually unlimited pool of mana, the range and versatility of destruction spells makes them overpowered, if anything.

I don't know how many times I'm going to point this out on this thread, but it does not matter how much or how little the spells cost. You can be redundant and have both infinite magicka and -100% spell cost, for all I care. That does not and cannot make any spell, Destruction or nay, any stronger. You can just cast them more often like that, and many players, myself included, consider that gamebreaking.

Please do not tell me or anyone how to play the game, and please stop asserting that Destruction gets more powerful with a lower spell cost when that is incorrect :facepalm:

*facepalm*

Andymac55 just tried to explain that no one is complaining about just using one skill and not having it measure up. The people who are complaining here didn't just level destruction and then called it a day. The complaint here is that one of many abilities they use is not working well when the player makes it the higher level. They are not complaining about not being being able to kill a target in three seconds, but they are a little irritated that one of their primary abilities doesn't work that well after a certain level, and that they cant really use it anymore.