Are you kidding me? Every single change they make is because they stole it from a mod, even if what they are doing is NOTHING like how the mod they supposedly stole from did it? In fact many did the opposite. You think todd howard is browsing the nexus and says "Hey this mod adds a few new skills, that gives me an idea! We'll remove 3 skills!"

Most of the ideas are from Fallout 3, which used ideas from Fallout 1 and 2. Things like no classes, lower level scaling, perks, etc.

Of course they have, mods are an expression of what you'd want, it's basically the same as a suggestion, it's just yourself applying it. All of them are in the suggestion threads and level scaling/combat/new skills/classes are all obvious improvements that would have been there regardless of mods. is removing classes a mod?




jesus christ, the magazine:

"Out on the street, your magically empowered hero may be approached by another magic-user who wishes to duel. If you had only improved your weapon skills, that character might never appear."

how the [censored] do you equate that with meaning you will not have dynamic normal encounters, it's a special encounter!

EDIT: completed the citation for added emphesis.

That's a GREAT thing! It's about time!

So the complaint here is that Bethesda is doing stuff that mods did in Oblivion? You do realize that there's a mod for just about every plausible scenario and taste, don't you? Might as well say that they're ripping off Qarl by improving the game textures over Oblivion. Silliness.

I think this is great. It shows that Beth is paying attention to what an incredible job the mod community is doing and what their fan base has responded to. There's a lot of folks with a lot of creativity in the mod community and if certain elements are adopted for TES V, all the better.

Who cares if they are stealing from modders, I would assume people don't mod games because they think they are rubbish as a general rule they do it because they see something they love bits of and improve the bits they feel are flawed. No one is forced to write mods and post them on Nexus or whatever, and if Bethesda want to look at these, choose the best ideas and use them to improve the game, then so much the better for everyone. Besides every idea in every game can be traced back to someone else's idea somewhere. Maybe this forum wouldn't exist if Tolkien had decided to write detective stories or Gary Gygax had invented Trivial Pusuit instead of D&D. Not all ideas can be original, and if it takes a few borrowed ones to make Skyrim an awesome experience then that is fine by me.

Hmm so BGS is using things the fans like in their game... those evil, evil, bad, evil people. Only on this board would listening to their fans be a bad thing to people. Blizzard and BGS listen to the fans more than any other studio and their games are crazy popular for a reason. If you want to play a game where they rarely or never listen to fans go play a 3d Sonic title or Celda. And yes the C is intentional I am referencing how Nintendo refuses to listen to the hardcoe Zelda fans and make a mature Zelda game.

If I was a modder and I saw my mod in the next game, I would be over the moon! Talk about bragging rights haha!

They cannot 'steal' from mods. Using the GECK or CS is agreeing to it's terms of use; (which basically means giving the mod idea to Bethesda ~its the price of access to the tools).
You publish it and its theirs to use :shrug: It really could not be released any other way. Its not provable that they did not have the same idea as a later mod and discarded it, or even later found a mod that managed the idea in an efficient way. The alternative is no toolset.

The end result is that the game is usually better for it. Win/win when the mods make it in?

You might as well say that Bethesda is 'stealing' from other games. I'm sure all of these gameplay changes have been done in other games before. It's not necessarily a matter of creating new gameplay, but taking stuff that people are happy with and incorporating them all together.

actually modding also shows that Bethesda is really smart to ALLOW free modding in the first place!

NO, to be more accurate they actually intend the game to be mod friendly, of course they should have inspiration from the mod community its what WE want.
maybe they are even employing modders in the actual company who knows!

Finishing moves, dual wielding, perks, etc. those things have been in video games since the '80s.

Actually we do know. They have hired a few modders here and there. The only problem is most modders don't have a degree in a field needed to work in the industry, and therefore can't get a job doing it.

The more ideas they take inspiration from the better. Shows that they're listening to what we want, and seeing what could work.

Really,why is it wrong for the developers to include the mod ideas made for their games? If they actually DID,the game would be much more awesome.I totally agree with this post.

I see no problem with using ideas from mods in the game, because mods can probably be taken as a representation of what fans want in their game, since mods are made by fans, who naturally mod the game to suit their preferences. Now, of course, a mod just represents the personal preferences of its creator, alone, it doesn't show if the rest of the fanbase agrees, but when the mod manages to reach a high level of popularity, it probably means a sizable portion of the fanbase wants things like that, and by looking at what sort of mods are most popular, it can give a picture of what the fanbase wants. Obviously, though, Bethesda still needs to apply their own judgement here and can't just blindly assume anything that's popular in mods is a good idea, because if they did that, I'm sure Skyrim would be filled with she-elves with huge bouncing briasts and chainmail bikinis.

And it's not like the ideas from mods Bethesda is using are things other games haven't done before. Nor does a game necessarily need to do something no one has tried before to be good, sometimes, things that have already been proven to be good and desired by the customers are enough.

Honestly, it's hard to understand Elder Scrolls fans sometimes, and I'm one of them, they complain about Bethesda ignoring their fanbase, and then when they do something that fans have proven they want by creating mods to add it, they suddenly act like it's a bad thing and Bethesda is just being "unoriginal". Bethesda can never please us if we can't decide ourselves what we want.

Myself, I think it's a good thing that Bethesda not only realizes the value of mods, but also realizes that they can be a good source of inspiration and give a picture of what fans want.

Nothing that I am reading in that article, was implemented by mods in Oblivion. Or at least, not in such scale.

"-- The story is set during a civil war 200 years after the events in Oblivion in a snow realm north of Cyrodil, Skyrim. A Cataclysm-esque dragon, Alduin, is set up as the game's main enemy."

No mods here boss.

"-- There are 10 races to choose from, and players can edit their character's bodies as well as faces, and beards are now an option. Further, there are no specific character classes, so you'll be able to pursue a wide variety of skills for whatever character you create."

No mods allowed you to tweak your bodies, or add true beards. And no mods got rid of the class system.

"-- Based on the weapon you're using, players will be able to perform unique attacks as well as a wide variety of finishing moves in combat. Dual wielding will be an option."

No mods implemented fully working Dual Wielding, it was just aesthetically. But yeah, Deadly Reflex added finishing moves and unique attacks, but they were very glitchy and difficult to make it work.

"-- There are 18 skills to choose from, and as players level-up their characters, they will be able to choose from a variety of Perks akin to the system in Fallout."

No mods added perks that could be chosen like in Fallout 3. No mods degraded the skills to 18.

"-- Based on how you play the game, quests will be generated to suit your particular style. For example, if your character is a heavy magic user, expect to do battle with a lot of mages."

No mods ever tried to create something like the Radiant Story system and it's randomization.

"-- Players will once again have a massive world to explore, and there will be five major cities throughout Skyrim and numerous other towns and villages."

Obviously, no mods here again.
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Why did you say Bethesda is just using PC modders ideas? They are creating amazing new stuff that no one ever seen before in TES history or modding history.

Modder goes reading around the forum for ideas for a mod. Ideas and suggestions thread filled to the brink (what some 80 something of them) and thinks, "what a splendid idea" and starts working on a mod to include the idea they read or someone thought of. Those ideas that are written in hopes that devs will read it and actually implement it into the next game. Dev's read those ideas, modders read those ideas. Who gets to use it? It's on the interwebz so...anyone who decided to do so uses it. They are exchanges of ideas written for that purpose.

Modder posts and says, "Cool idea, I am so going to make a mod like that." and that is fine. Dev's read it, brings it up at a meeting and they mull it around and come up with a way to make it work. They use an idea that is posted on the forum in a suggestions and ideas thread made for that purpose.

What's the big deal it the above is so? In the history of this world is there really any ideas that have never been thought or conveyed or used before? Not many I'd say. What I can tell you is that in that article in GI, I did see info that I haven't yet seen in those 80 something suggestions and idea threads nor in any mods I've seen posted here. They should be commended for taking some of our suggestions and mixing it with their own.

At least that is my 2 gold worth of thought on the matter.

nGCD's Got No Class module added classless gameplay, though it was a different style, and Unnecessary Violence implemented true dual wielding.
But yes, the article doesn't bring a great amount of mod-inspired content. But even if it did, that's /great/. That is exactly what I want bethesda to do - look at what the fans want in the game so much that some of them are willing do make it themselves, and others want enough to download and use.

Gosh I hope this is an option and not mandatory. A mage should have a few Sauruman/Gandalf style fights, but should also have to deal with a few Aragorn/Boromir style opponents ~and them be the more common IMO. Fighters should have to deal with high level wizards and be out of their element IMO but not as often ~Fighters are more common than mages right?
This seems similar in a way [to me] as having leveled loot.

If not optional, I'll be hunting out a mod to fix this if the game supports mods.

Fixed that one for you

As a general comment to the thread, the reality is, the great majority of modder's "ideas" aren't original at all; mostly stuff we have seen in other games and think it would be cool to have it in-game. All of those things mentioned in that article (finishing moves, dual wielding weapons, perks) they all were present in video games since the arcade days, when computer games were composed with green lines against a black background and had sounds like *beep* *beep* when your stickman moved.

I dont have any problems with it i wish sometimes they copy more mods for instance the mini-nuke gatling gun from fo3 and put it as an download on psn or xboxlive
,infact as earlyer said in this tread FONV has a lot of stuff from ideas on the bethesda forums i thought, isnt that great

Beards were done, dual-wielding was done as best as could be managed and random quest generation was done as well, but will hopefully be done better in Skyrim.

There is no doubt that some things from mods will be added in to Skyrim (the changes in archery sound an awful lot like Duke Patrick's mods), and that is totally a good thing. Bethesda needs to pay attention to what can be done and see what works.

Well there are talented modders but nothing they are adding in Skyrim was thought up by modders for Oblivion. Beards I wouldn't say was a groundbreaking addition. Dual Wielding was but that was in none of the games before and the dual wielding modded into Oblivion was completely different. There was nothing wrong with Oblivion, it just got a bad rep by people that didn't like the idea that they removed a couple skills and were angry that the vast armor system was removed even though the old armor system was flawed because of being able to abuse it to become a god. Oblivion was a great game, people just need to stop thinking about Morrowind and trying to compare it the whole time they are playing the game and let themselves sink into Oblivion. Nothing ruins immersion like looking out for anything that wasn't Morrowind. Also, I can guarantee that Skyrim will be heralded as a terrible game when it comes out for the same reason that Oblivion was. People will just play through Skyrim seething over even less skills even though those skills are repurposed in the game elsewhere and might even have more content than Morrowind and Oblivion.

The beards were nothing but fake ones that you equip as a accessory/armor. You are right about duel-wielding, but it was still very weird and glitchy.

Random quest generation?! I NEED A LINK NAO! :celebration: