Was on you tube for something Witcher 3. Forgot it was done and more videos showed up. There was a video about 10 facts you need to know about Witcher 3. One of them was about how you got so much in the physical box.

What stood out to me was the person said "well it's not new, this use to be standard, so Witcher 3 is going back to what use to be, before publishers got LAZY and GREEDY, and not just a pamphlet and advertising for their other games."

This just screens Bethesda to me. Has Bethesda become Lazy and Greedy? Hell yes they have. I remember when Bethesda use to say one of the reasons why the prices were so high was because of transportation costs, manuals and boxes costed money and the other goodies they use to put in the boxes costed money. Funny all we got was a small pamphlet in Skyrim and their other games. So what happened with digital downloads? How come the prices are not cheaper? No manual. No transportation and NO MORE GOODIES (except for a map if buying a cd/dvd) but digital with no goodies and paying the same prices?

Yes Bethesda has become Greedy. I don't care about the "well other companies do it, or this is how it is done now." Bethesda didn't use to do this.

They use to give out free DLC. Oh it's called DLC now but before it was called Plug-Ins. Same thing different name.

So now Bethesda is LAZY and GREEDY.

I am so glad Whitcher 3 came out. Bethesda has big shoes to fill now. I can't believe how the mighty has fallen. They use to give us so much, but now they are like any other company now, just Lazy and Greedy. I guess I fell in the "well everyone else does it, so it's ok if Bethesda does it." This video I saw reminded me of the good old days. If Bethesda wants to be like other companies, then be like Projek Red not like EA or 2K.

Yes I still love Bethesda games of Fallout and The Elder Scrolls. I would love if Bethesda goes back to their roots and give us stuff. A manual. A MANUAL. Give us Plug ins or as Projek Red did, give us free DLC.

Just look at Projek Red and Look at Bethesda. Geez Bethesda looks like EA or 2K now, give as little as you can but take as much from us now.

Am I sour? No. Just a reminder how disappointed I am in Bethesda in their Greed.

I would love for Bethesda to stop being like EA and 2K and Activision and be like how they were before.

Can't remember where I read this, but they way I heard it was that was mostly Valve's idea, Beth just went along with it.

Not saying they aren't a little money hungry, but Beth is a company after all, and in the world of business, you need to make money, or you won't continue to be in business for long.

I wish this was only Bethesda but it's unfortunately ALL the big game makers. Everything has become season passes and DLC's and lets make a game with 1/4 the content for 59.99 and sell the last 3/4 for 19.99 a quarter. I see the pre-order gig for Deus Ex:Mankind divided and I just shake my head but we do this to ourselves when we preorder everything and give these people our money.

As Barretts pointed out, it was mostly Valve's idea. Bethesda went with it mostly because they wanted modders to get something for all of their great work that they do... Valve was the one who did all the crazy % bullcrap which ruined the idea and making it non-optional. (Paying for a mod is a great idea if the money actually goes to the modder and is optional)/

As for Bethesda being lazy and greedy? I strongly disagree there myself. Every game they've released from Morrowind to Skyrim has been pretty much the same ordeal, physical wise. Plus, PC version wise, you do get digital codes. They've been the same as they've always been when it comes to pricing and giving what they were giving.

I highly doubt Bethesda will do the whole 1/4 content for 60 and 3/4 later on ordeal.

When did they justify the cost of games by pointing out manuals and transportation costs?

When did they hand out free DLC?

Didn't Skyrim come with a manual and a map?

Not sure how wanting payment for the things you make constitutes "Greedy" with a capital "G" or "Lazy" with a capital "L." Would free things be nice? Absolutely. But it doesn't seem outrageous that they're selling their stuff.

And ummm, to point out the blatantly obvious, Beth didn't have to release Fallout Shelter for...wait for it...FREE!!! Doesn't sound like greedy or lazy to me.

Yes, though probably not in the way that Valve ended up doing.

Games cost a lot more than the days of getting goodies in the box so I can't equate that with a lack of quality digital content, which Bethesda has done quite well, especially with DLC. Before CDPR came on the scene they were one of the few offering really meaty expansions instead of micro transactions.

yes they did

the fact it was an OPTIONAL thing, where the mod maker was the one to decide if it was pay-for or not, and it was the mod maker who decided what they sell it for.. yes, yes I do

They didn't need to at all because it's Freemium. It's been a massive success for Bethesda, that game has been all over /r/gaming, and numerous other places. I can't imagine how many people have spent money on that game.

Let's go on this. Bethesda is not Greedy? Then please explain to me this then. Bethesda use to give so much. They gave out free DLC. They use to make manuals. MANUALS. For those who do not know, a manual is a book, they use to be over 200 pages which would explain how a game works and history. Now you have to buy Strategy Guides to see how a game works. Bethesda use to make great awesome manuals. What do they do now? Give 2 or 3 pages leaflet.

If that is not trying to save money and be more Greedy, then I don't know what is. So what do you call when someone use to do something like make a good sized manual and now don't? What do you call when a representative of Bethesda said about the reason for high prices was because of price of fuel for trucks and paper costs money and boxes cost money and when things go digital in the future prices will drop. Prices never dropped. What do you call that? Greed? Bethesda is pocketing the money that is not going into manuals, and boxes and shipping costs. What do you call that?

On another note someone said charging $59.99 for a game. I live in Canada so a game for me now is $79.99. Do I expect more? Heck Yeah. I want more, not less. I loved my Arena manual. I even bought another copy of Arena when Bethesda made a mini strategy guide/manual with mouse pad. Oh how I loved that mouse pad. I used it so much and for so long I basically wore it out. Daggerfall was great. Morrowind was good. I can't remember what Oblivion had to offer. I think that is when it went downhill. A few pages. Skyrim, I think a page nothing more.

I would pay less for more. Now I am paying more for less. Oh to have a great manual for Fallout 4.

Will continue the discussion tomorrow. Time for bed. I hope everyone has a great day/nite.

Oblivion had Horse Armor

I call that an uncited, unverified, and unproven example. You're gonna have to link a quote there for me to consider calling it anything else.

I think, in the end, it all depends on if one views the game industry from an adversarial position or not. (i.e, do you assume that they're out to screw you? If you view the industry as a whole negatively, then yeah - any specific thing they do, you're going to assume it's coming from a hostile direction. If you don't view the industry as "the enemy", then you likely won't automatically assume malice of every decision.)

Am I disappointed that games as a whole don't come with a big manual, some art cards, a nice map, and other random fluff in the box? Sure. Do I assume it's because they're lazy, greedy, and out to get me? Nah. I assume it's because everything is continually getting more expensive, while they're stuck keeping a set price (50, then 60) for their games for a decade at a time. Something in that equation has to give.

(the trend away from big boxes to DVD cases - both due to "be kind to the environment, don't waste so much paper/plastic/etc on packaging!"groups and retail stores not having as much shelf space - also probably had some impact on the amount of stuff you got in a box.)

you realize the physical Skyrim cases came with a manual and a rather nice map, right?

and I have game manuals from over a hundred games that I keep next to the discs and cartirdges, and the only ones that even go close to 200 pages are from MMO's.. can you name a single single player game thats manual was over 200 pages (I am honestly curious.. not even my old Might & Magic games have ones that long), most are lucky to surpass 40

I call it being a company.. the role of any company in any industry is to turn a profit

that has nothing to do with Bethesda or any game studio, that has to do with how our government has been running our economy into the ground and how little the Loonie is worth atm for exchange rates (i remember back when the loonie was worth more than the USD)..

fyi, the Canadian dollar is currently worth $0.76 USD, meaning at this very moment i am posting this (as value can fluctuate daily) $59.99 American is equal to $79.06 Canadian (and chances are it will drop even further in the not-so-distant future).. so really, its not like we are actually paying more if you look at the big picture of global currency value, as your actually paying the same

Games cost lot more to make than they used to*. I'm surprised the standard price for a new game isn't $70 yet. But Bethesda greedy and lazy? Not buying that one. Greedy less so than lazy.

Bethesda's expansions have consistently been the best in the industry. Hell, for a while I thought they were the last ones that still bothered making actual 'expansions' rather than the one and done DLCs that could be beaten in fours hours.

*Don't believe me? Beat a SNES game, then beat a PS4 or XO game, then watch the credits roll and compare and contrast.

Bethesda's greedy. Which is exactly what they're supposed to be, corporation and what not. They're in the business of making as much money as possible, which means shaving the margins, which means cutting down on useless junk in the boxes that will ultimately only have an influence on a miniscule number of purchases.

I mean, maybe I'm too harsh. I love physical boxes, I love instruction manuals and inserts and random swag as much as the next mega-nerd. But faulting Bethesda for doing what they are supposed to be doing is silly, particularly when you consider that CD Projekt is a bit of a maverick and what ol' Beth is doing is pretty damn tasty compared to the rest of the industry, giving us decent content with a very reasonable number of DLC and very little cut content. Sure, they might be light on the swag, but you can't fault the value of the core product, the game. Hell, I don't even like Oblivion, Skyrim or Fallout 3 that much, but even I can see their content:dollar value.

ugh

25% to modders was actually very generous when you factor in how many ways the licenses had to be split as well as hosting. its like complaining about 3rd party merchandise being expensive. of course the price is marked up, you have to pay the person that owns the intellectual property, you have to pay the person who makes the product, and you have to pay the people that sell it.

its absurd to expect or demand that modders get any thing more than 50%, and 25% is actually not that bad. its also pretty naive to say that bethesda was being greedy with the paid mods concept considering free mods were still going to be available (yes, presented with the option to charge for mods, modders will still make free content because most people are not going to pay for mods no matter what. just like smartphone apps are mostly free even though they can charge.) and even if all mods were charged for considering the low number of downloads and the low prices for the mods, they'd be lucky to rake in any thing higher than 5 figures in profit. The whole bad reaction to paid mods is just people knee jerking when they don't even understand the logistics of what it takes to split income of a intellectual property with multiple parties.

couldn't have said it better myself

I recall in 2002 when Morrowind came out for the Xbox, it had the exact same stuff that Skyrim had when it was released; A map and a small booklet on how to play the game. Morrowind's "free DLC" (being completely honest) were like amateur mods compared to their bigger paid expansions or their paid Oblivion and Skyrim mods.

If I recall though... the cost of Morrowind was a lot cheaper than Skyrim. It was probably around $40.00 CAD compared to Skyrim's $59.99 CAD price tag in 2011. Both of these titles when they came out were10$ cheaper than most AAA titles in Canada, though.

You do bring up a good point with the Witcher though. I remember the amount of stuff the Witcher 2 came with when I bought it. Paper cut outs, sound tracks, strategy guides, documentary, I think there was some other stuff too. But I really think that it was a defining point for their growing title at the time, and they needed every incentive to really sweeten the pot. The Witcher 3 had a lot less stuff than the Witcher 2, and I'm sure the next Witcher game will have even less as It doesn't need to prove itself anymore. It's earned your confidence.

I feel like this is where Bethesda has come from. And if I want all the extra stuff, I'll pay extra for the collector's edition.

If there wasnt a decent benchmark already set by a few other gaming companies, for generally being crappy, Bethesda couldnt compete with them, no with the poor examples set by other games companies Bethesda are doing pretty damned well.