Bethesda isn't stealing it. Interplay sold Fallout in its entirety to Bethesda, and as part of the agreement Bethesda licensed the MMO rights to Interplay. This licensing agreement included a timeline Interplay would have to keep, which required that they meet certain funding and developement requirements by April 4th. According to the news Bethesda is saying that Interplay hasn't met either of these, so legally the license returns to Bethesda.

If Interplay has raised sufficient funds and gotten the game in to full production this issue will be moot. However it does seem odd that Interplay would have met its goals and not openly revealed this to Bethesda. Perhaps Bethesda wanted a more detailed accounting than Interplay would give them, hence the legal proceedings.

If Interplay hasn't met their goals it's quite possible that Bethesda and Interplay will negotiate a new contract. It's also quite possible that Bethesda will get the MMO rights back and Interplay will develope V13 with a new Post-Apocalyptic setting. Maybe they'll even see if they can get the MMO rights to Wasteland from EA and Brain Fargo, although I'm not sure if Fargo could pause long enough from laughing to agree to that.

They aren't exactly stealing.

You're appealing to emotion, but sadly, that wont hold up in court or even the real world. Interplay had a contractual agreement, they screwed up, and now they're losing what they had. It's no different than a credit agency coming to reposess a car you bought and couldn't pay for with THEIR credit.

That's pretty likely. A lot of old FO fans are looking forward to Wasteland 2 or anything else that Fargo and company will produce, more than the actual FO4. I guess a lot of us are better defined as Black Isle fans than Fallout fans now. :shrug:

EDIT: Taylor and Anderson were pretty much the only reasons I would've touched another Interplay product in the first place...and why I'm hoping this ends favorable for Interplay. Give someone from the old team, one last shot at making a Fallout game.

Personally if Bethesda does go stabbing Interplay to a bloody death they at least have the insight to accept the help of the original Fallout creators when they offer it on a Fallout project, if they make another that is.

They have potential, but I would still like to see Interplay actually get around to letting the old Fallout guys actually release a project. Maybe Bethesda could throw them a bone and buy up Van Buren and let them release it.

It was almost done. Then they can claim the MMO and do as they please, Fallout was never really meant to be an MMO.

(for the love of god it's like.... a lot of rock and sand...)

I enjoyed the original Wasteland (at the time) and then much, much later the original Fallouts and now Fallout 3. The best MMO would be based on the Wasteland IP or entirely new IP. Its conceivable that it could start as a smaller manageable project and grow (like Eve). I have a fear that a Fallout MMO release anytime in the near future would have so much baggage and expectations that it would not have a chance. The best chance for a project like this would be a slow growth to figure out what works and what doesn't and also allow gambles to be made.

Its happened before. SSI and Westwood Studios had a parting of ways in the 90's. SSI owned the TSR license and allowed Westwood to make "Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2", but then pulled it (for whatever reason) and made EOB3 themselves, while Westwood went on to create the Lands of Lore series; Lands of Lore:Throne of Chaos was considered by many fans of EOB 1&2 to BE EOB3, despite SSI selling an official one.

Well, we can safely say now what Fallout is compared to what it was isn't the same (or at least, isn't an improvment upon any original working formula), so I guess as vets we have to move away from Fallout and move towards potential InXile efforts for a return to form, this is a fair enough compromise for me.


Aye I guess I have little choice but to call myself a BI fan, I did also enjoy their Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series, afterall. And I have yet to enjoy Planescape, but like wasteland, that'll be something I'll constantly look forward to yet never get around to doing

And the Taylor/Anderson trademark was pretty much the same reason I was still somewhat with Iplay, without them or any of the original staff Iplay is just a nonce called Herve.


Nuuuu, Bethesda had an opportunity to employ the original staff, and a few even applied to work on FO3 with them, Beth turned them down. Beth knew the direction they wanted to take the franchise in, and that clearly didn't involve any intervention by original creators.

Huh I hadn't heard that before. Pretty hilarious if true, heh, although I do wonder what Tim Cain is up to.

That's certainly true for many, but... Why do you believe them BI fans and not Fallout fans?

• First... the founding few left BI and created Troika.
  
• Second... Troika's Arcanum was basically a fantasy/Steam-Punk themed Fallout in the way that F3 is a post Apoc Oblivion. (but it was not connected and not intended as a sequel/prequel that I'm aware of).
  
• Third... Troika was working on a post apoc RPG that positively seethed with the Fallout atmosphere (despite zero references to the franchise ~that I'm aware of).
  
• Fourth... How is not lauding a named sequel (that while great on its own), neither looks nor plays even remotely like either predecessors? I'd say that those who did were fans of the TES gameplay regardless of garb.

Ask yourself this ~If you've played them... [Open Question]

I'd heard that Leonard Boyarski was not taken on. [as lead, as art director, not even as a consultant.]

Tim Cain said he was looking forward to [playing] it, and was also canceling his Age of Conan account
(I've not read a peep out of him since).

Meant no disrespect. I get your points, and I actually agree with them. You're preaching to the choir.

As you said in your second point, the former Black Isle devs create games that are similar to the first two Fallouts despite having different skins. I'd like to think that the design choices and philosophies that they utilized in making the classics are carried over to their future games. It's for this reason that I'm looking forward to Diablo 3 because of Boyarsky, Wasteland 2 because of Fargo and Anderson, and hopefully FO:OL because of Chris Taylor. But, the Fallout series has taken a new direction (as you said in your fourth point), not a bad direction mind, just different from what made me a fan in the first place. So as much as I'd like to remain a Fallout fan, I'm less inclined towards FO4 because it's just not the same thing, despite being official. I'm more interested in any projects from former Black Isle devs, thus my original statement.

Heh. Just pretend that I didn't say "a lot of fans," and make it "IMO." I don't want to derail the thread.

I don't believe several former developers applied to Bethesda.

While FO3 was in developement some people at NMA told me that one former developer had contacted Bethesda about working on Fallout 3. At the time they didn't know if this person had sent in an application and formally applied for one of the open positions, in fact one speculated that this one not the case, that the person had just informally e-mailed them about the possibility and never heard back.

It's worth noting that after Troika closed there was much discussion here about ex-Troika devs going to Bethesda. Pete posted to say that they had job openings and several Bethesda devs posted encouragements. Considering that Troika/Interplay and Bethesda are on opposite ends of the country geography alone may have convinced many not to apply.

It's also worth noting that we're getting off topic again.

Source?

I did not mean to imply that I thought you did. :foodndrink:

That's in keeping with the impression I got based on what I read at the time. I believe [think] it was Leonard Boyarski that contacted them.

It's clear they weren't interested in original developer input.

Perhaps they weren't interested if it wasn't on their exact terms? I dunno (probably not I think).

If an original dev was involved, then he'd have the best interpretation of the series (having partly created it and known the original team well), but possibly he would knock heads when they wished to go off on [an unwanted] tangent? Go against their corporate culture... Kind of a "but that was never it..." ~"We want to do it anyway!" sort of a deal.

If Interplay shows something promising perhaps they'll re-negotiate. I don't like the concept that they may have agreed to the license under the assumption that Interplay could never succeed.

Yeah, I can see that being the reason to not involve any of the BIS folk. It's hard to work with someone else's universe especially with that someone being around. I like the, heh, pride in Hines' last sentence though.

Sorry, but I have first-hand knowledge that at least one of them did apply for a job at Bethesda and was turned down.

It was no doubt so Beth could secure creative control, that's no secret. Though that itself shows what Bethesda planned for their title, which was a complete deviation from the prior series. If they had taken on original devs, it would have shown a more preservist method of developing FO3. But they seemed to have a clear idea of what they wanted FO3 to be. This is one of the main reasons I feel I have been given the finger by the Beth boys. As nothing they have done seems to be a 'lack of judgement' rather than 'this is how we do it in the mainstream, take it or leave it'.

Um no Interplay have retained the right to make a fallout MMO only so long as they met certain requirements by a certain date, which they are apparently failing to do. And in failing to do so (if it is proven) then they will lose the right to make a fallout MMO and that right returns to the owners of the IP which is now Bethesda.

There is no theft involved at all... its business pure and simple. Interplay sold the IP, and they agreed to the rights and conditions under which they kept the option to make a fallout mmo.

No line has been crossed at all Bethesda has abided by the agreement they made, Interplay apparently hasn't..

I have no ill feelings to either company, indeed just the opposite, but if people make legal agreements then they should be expected to stick to them or face the consequences for failing to do so..simple as, its just good business, not to mention common courtesy.

At any rate I suspect something amenable to both parties will be ironed out in the end.

Fans are clingy, complaining dip [censored] who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be. -Yahtzee.

Actually, I'm going to make this my sig.

Sad how people think Yahtzee's clever. I still remember what a total POS his review of The Witcher was, heh, dude's allergic to literacy I think.

Like Bethesda, he knows his audience. (I like his reviews, but I don't take them as gospel).

I don't think hiring one developer is going to mean that the entire focus of the project is going to be shifted. Assuming that this person did apply, there are many reasons why an individual isn't hired, and a difference in philosophy and vision is one, but only one in many possible reasons.

OH FOR THE LOVE OF ...

Let's get this perfectly straight: this is not theft. This is enforcing the terms of an agreement that Interplay entered into knowing full well what could happen if Interplay failed to live up to it's end of the bargain.

Bethesda did not "rip off" Fallout. Bethesda purchased Fallout. Interplay SOLD Fallout to Bethesda. The terms of that sale included a LIMITED-time oportunity to produce and publish a Fallout-themed MMO ... and Interplay failed to meet the deadline they agreed to.

Interplay willingly entered into this agreement. The consequences, therefor, cannot be accurately termed "theft" by anyone with at least half a brain and at least a fingernail-hold on sanity.

If anything, having FAILED to meet the deadlines they agreed to, should Interplay try to keep teh MMO license ... then they would be the ones trying to STEAL something.


Bethesda already OWNS Van Buren. They bought the whole Fallout franchise, lock-stock-and-barrel.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~


What Gizmo said. Sometimes I think his comments are spot on, sometimes I don't - but always, I think the whole thing is ENTERTAINING to listen to.

Heh, how right you are. The two audiences are pretty similar when you think about it.