Double post

Some moments of FO3 were definitely enjoyable, but after playing FONV I got the feeling Obsidian implemented many things Bethesda should have thought of. It also felt like it was better written and a better overall experience. The ideal mix of the newest FO generation of games would be FONV + the epic and deep moments of FO3. So you could say kind of the same thing about Skyrim. Although it feels that in this case OB=FO3 and MW=FONV. Don't know how to explain this in a better way.

But instead of removing everything that didn't add to the experience of the player they could fix try to fix everything that doesn't add to the experience.

You mean like Beth have this time? :mellow:

Take a peek at the latest Hubdate on combat mechanics. You'll notice that Beth have been drawing inspiration from user mods and player requests when they recreated the system. Examples include overhauls of the marksman system and the sneaking system. Not to mention making combat more fluid by chucking the 'attrition' system. They do listen, I'm fairly sure of it. The powers that be do actually play their own games and will have seen the most popular mods out there. How else do you think prominent modders from all of Beth's games got interviews of the BethBlog site?

It's just my opinion but i'm pretty sure BGS would have added a lot of things that New Vegas has if they had developed the next fallout instead, pretty much everything except for story and dialogue is from a mod.

Weapon Mods = WMK
Iron sights = RH_Ironsights
hardcoe mode = FWE
Companion wheel = the companion command from FWE
More weapons = FWE
etc.

if it's in F:NV there's probably a mod for it for FO3

however after all that I still love F:NV immensely

So OP I think Bethesda will listen to the fans but not bend to their every whim and desire.

Wish in one hand...

Fan input of multiple demographics is always important.

Also not to bag on you but since you and others bring it up. Fallout New Vegas is a side story and a good game at that(Big expansionesque is the term on it and thats another reason they tried to put more content and wanted features in, old hardcoe Black Isle really devoted fan myself not withstanding.)

Thing in its a new game released in 2010, Fallout 3 being released in 08. The fact that consumers should be bowing like Gods for a product -expected- to be better than the previous product still astounds me. If it was crap no one would be particularly happy with Obsidian and the little input and behind the scenes work Bethesda did other than QA.

So its not something you can specifically applaud Obsidian for. Its their -job- But its applaudable they listened to the feedback from Fallout 3 and the mods to craft New Vegas.

Seeing as Howards stated their own influences from mods lets hope their taking fan works and opinion into consideration.

As for Morrowind hopes, developers always need new influences and art styles to make a new game. If they made something Morrowind-esque again they'd be bored of it pretty quickly. Thats why Oblivions different, along with engine constraints at the time. Plus, Oblivion brought a lot of improvements too.

Seems the message of Oblivions unvaried landscapes got through.

Of all. Bring back Morrowinds writers. Or even better writers than that. Just please.

I feel like Bethesda listens to players at least as much as the average game company if not more. I am not sure why so many of you feel forsaken by them when it seems to me like they have always done what they can to improve their games in the eyes of the fans. Hell, if you read down the list of things changed for Skyrim you might be reading a wishlist of things people hoped Beth would change from Oblivion.

*facepalm*
The main reason for New Vegas having so many more features then F3 was not because Obsidian was better studio or because they listened to the fans but because, unlike Bethesda, they didn't need to take care of modifying an engine, creating a new gameplay (transport from bird perspective to First Person perspective requires a LOT of designing), testing the new engine and gameplay, etc. Obsidian just added stuff to what Bethesda made.

And Bethesda does listen to the fans and they do play fanmade mods as proven few times already. But that does not mean that fans are their game designers. There are reasons why spears have been removed and adding them means that they can not add something else (which may prove to be more popular then spears which most here would not even use but would just like to have in game). They are limited on what they can and what they can't add. Resources, budget and available time do not allow you to have everything an some stuff will need to not be implemented. The fact that Bethesda now prefers quality over quantity also plays a big role in all of this.

I hope Skyrim's writing is on par with New Vegas.

I didn't like new vegas... :sadvaultboy:

It's a matter of opinion, but its writing is superb.

Say what you like about New Vegas but the best ideas and aspects from it, combined with FO3, combined with this new Creation engine, and hopefully a decent setting and story and script .... well I see one hell of a game brewing :fallout: FO4 Ftw!

The problem with Bethesda is that they do cave on some things. They need to remain adamant in what they want in their game. If they haven't added Crossbows and spears by now, then they probably aren't going to.

I would rather not have something that the fanbase decided was needed, then have it...but have it be half-assed. Thats the problem I had with New Vegas, was it fun? Sure, was it half-assed? Abso-[censored]-lutely.

If Bethesda has the time to do it right, let them do it right, if they don't, then leave it at that.

Bethesda kind of sounds like a rock band that's selling out. We should march outside their office, destroying Oblivion cases...

Most of the people here at the forum, including me, are dedicated fans who only want Skyrim to be as good as possible. That's why I joined these forums anyway, to make my thoughts audible. I'm pretty sure all of our threads here will keep Bethesda from falling down the pit of superficiality and keep making real RPGs. Even though they'll compensate this with a bloody compass and fast travel.

I don't disagree with your point, as I didn't play neither FO3 nor New Vegas. All I want to say is a general consideration on the matter. It is always easier to "build" on someone else's foundation! It was much harder for Bethesda to make Fallout 3 from scraps than for Obsidian to make a mod for Fallout 3 and sell it as a new game. What Obsidian did was improve someone else's game, like all the modders do. And it's natural to do it better because that's the only reason to do it, if you can't do it better you don't do it at all. If they do it the other way around (Obsidian gives Bethesda the tools to make a spin-off of one of their games) I'm sure Bethesda can do the same thing.

Bethesda does that too. They don't take many ideas, at least it appears not many, because they are making the game they want. Let them do their stuff, and the majority of people will be happy for months playing Skyrim.

Petitions were banned from the forums after the constant petition after petition after petition after petition for everything under the sun; crossbows, cloaks, hoods, spears, halberds, mounted combat, horses, capes, beards, bouncy briasts, long flowing hair, throwing stars, whips, and more for Oblivion. The whole first page or two of the forum was nothing but petitions.

If you want to ask for something, try emailing Bethesda. Or pm one of the Community Managers. Or one of the devs.

And "poor design decisions" are in the eye of the beholder. Some of the stuff I've seen people demanding be added to the game would be enough for me to never buy it. Online/multiplayer or guns for instance, would make me completely ignore the game.

I'm pretty sure that Bethesda has their own ideas on how Skyrim should look in their eyes. I wouldn't use anything that was put in New Vegas because that game took things in a different direction item wise. What I'm saying is you could find something broken at level 2 without much effort. Hopefully that won't be the case with Skyrim.