So this is not a fallout game, but I think Obsidian did a great job with New Vegas, I felt they really added allot of great stuff that Bethesda didn't add in Fallout 3
.Like iron sight, less level scaling
more unique weapons and characters and alot more things. But over to what I want to say. The thing I noticed was that Obsidian really listened to the fans. They even said so many times, they wanted to add allot of things the fans missed. They even had spears you could throw I feel Obsidian was more open too what the community wanted, I hope Bethesda does the same.
Listen too us fans, we are the one buying your product, and even if some things takes a little more time for you guys to add in the game, like crossbows or whatever. I think you will gain allot respect and make allot of more fans happy by bringing back things you once had in the elder scrolls series. I felt I was cheated when I played Oblivion and every weapon I enjoyed in Morrowind was gone. both crossbows and spears, it really made me sad. And bethesda using an excuse like, ohh yeah fans didn't like spears in Morrowind so we took them out, ohh yeah crossbows take long time to load we don't want that. Funny thing is this time your new system makes bows alot slower to fire, so whats the excuse if you are not adding crossbows this time?

This is not a hate post, I love your games, but some things you just have to realise that you can't take away from the fan base.

with all its initial bugs, I still bought new Vegas BECAUSE it had many things that were not present in fallout 3

the weapons, the iron sights the hardcoe mod...etc

Obsidian even took many ideas from mods, I felt they really was united with the fans when they made the game, what do you guys want kinda attitude, I really liked that.

I don't want to seem rude, but where the [censored] do you people get your ego from? Bethesda doesn't make games specifically for you and your minority viewpoints. It is a company that aims to be profitable and make games that people will enjoy, not that YOU specifically will enjoy. If they feel that they will get a better result by leaving out certain elements, they will do so. Yet everyone on these forums gets some idea that this fringe minority of fans deserves to be listened to above others. This forum is not the fanbase, it is a small subset of that fanbase. It really doesn't matter whether 100% of this 1% of their customers want spears, it still represents a tiny fraction of their consumer base. You shouldn't have any greater influence than the casual gamer just because you sunk 1000 hours into Oblivion and then complained about design decisions after the fact. Hopefully Skyrim fulfills your dreams, but Beth isn't obligated to serve your fringe demands.

hardcoe MODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree that Fallout: New Vegas was a fun game with some nice additions and innovations that Bethesda missed, but it was missing the spark that Fallout 3 itself had. The plotline was more complex, the environment was grittier and darker and closer to the philosophy of Interplay's Fallout vision, and the new weapons and equipment were fun. But my problem was that the plot didn't carry the same energy or inventive writing as Fallout 3; the characters were far less interesting, and there were so many factions and directions that the game's personality felt splintered. And while the new additions, the companions and the world felt like a calling to what the fans wanted, it felt like a flood of features that either had little value or were simply THERE. In the end, a lot of the game felt redundant.

The thing that I love about Bethesda Game Studios, and particularly why I respect their decisions for the streamlined minimalism of features in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Fallout 3, is that Todd Howard and his team ask a very simple question: what does this feature/item/quest/location offer to the experience of the player? In Morrowind, we had access to spear weapons, crossbows and throwing knives, but I personally never found any use or value for them, and since they involved their own separate skills from the other mainstream weapons, I ignored them completely. Low and behold, when Oblivion is released, these redundant items are cut out of the game - and I applauded Bethesda for their ability to say that their OWN vision of the game is just as valuable, if not more valuable than what the fans demand, because they're the professionals; they know, over all, what is significant to the game's overall experience. But that's also why they honor the modding community so much, because they don't want to cut out these redundancies and forever damn them from the game; if someone loves spears, Bethesda gives them the opportunity to take their own vision and install it into the game world.

I like to imagine that being a game developer is much like being a fiction author: your fans will have their say and their desires for what they want to see, but in the end, that work of art is YOUR work of art, and it's your right to choose what is in the product and what is not; if the fans love it, great, but if they don't then they can always find another product to enjoy.

I liked the fact Obsidian made it quite advlt themed. I hope Bethesda stick with the 18 rating and don't cave in and make it a 12 or something.

:thumbsup: Well said.

My opinion is nearly the exact opposite of yours. Just about everything fans don't like about Oblivion was due to Bethesda listening to what fans didn't like about Morrowind. For example: one of the biggest complaints about Morrowind was that it was too static: players became god-like after level 25. So we have level-scaling in Oblivion, which was Bethesda's attempt to please fans. I could go on with a long list of things people don't like about Oblivion which came about because Bethesda listened to fans.

What you like is not necessarily what I like. What I like is not necessarily what you like. Which one of us is Bethesda going to listen to?

Yeah, I'm hoping they bring some things back from Morrowind. Sadly, I doubt we will ever get another game with the depth Morrowind had. The gaming community has just changed so much over the past few years and they have to make a profit.

its just because we have better taste, and are better gamers overall, and we criticize stuff when we know it could be better/more stable, and we are not forcing Bethesda to do anything DUH!!

don't hate the player, hate the game.

after playing over 1000 games and actually working as a concept artist, I say I know a thing or two about games.

bask in my glory :disguise:

"My opinion is nearly the exact opposite of yours. Just about everything fans don't like about Oblivion was due to Bethesda listening to what fans didn't like about Morrowind. For example: one of the biggest complaints about Morrowind was that it was too static: players became god-like after level 25. So we have level-scaling in Oblivion, which was Bethesda's attempt to please fans."

As with any software design, it's the responsibility of the designer to get at what users actually want, not just what they say they want. Often people understand that something is wrong, but have trouble expressing exactly why and what would be better for them. Getting to the truth that means asking questions and getting deeper into things, which requires engagement with the community.

Well if i am one of thousands of fans that wants certain elements back, doesn't that make us a part of people that Bethesda makes games for, games that we will enjoy? I will enjoy it anyway, but certain things they should bring back! They have no excuse not too, and is it a bad thing that a game company listen alot to the fans? :S sure Bethesda is an independent game company, sure they don't need to listen att the fans att this forums. But then again all the fans on this forums, even if we are a small part of their customers, should give Bethesda a certain degree of understanding about how their games are doing, and what we think about certain things, both good and bad.

Wow... just wow.

Are you for real?

What? Everybody wants spears!

*Spartaaaaaaaaah...*

Well said Radiohead.

There was one thing that New Vegas did incomparably better than FO3 however, and that is the writing. The depth of the stories and characters, the humor, how rich, natural and clever the dialogues were, was a breath of fresh air at a time when such content is really hard to find in the gaming industry anymore. I can't tell you how much I would like for Bethesda to not invest all their effort into physics/combat/interface etc - wich is what the majority of players want, and not only the ones in this forum. In the end of course Bethesda will do what they think is right both for their vision of how TES series should develop, and from a financial viewpoint as well.

I'm sorry, but where the [censored] do you get your ego from? I like how you chide people for having the audacity to make requests for certain things they want in a game they are going to pay for, and yet appoint yourself as the mouthpiece for Bethesda.

And you're also missing the point. I've seen plenty of people clamoring for spears, not just here either. Where do you propose they request the inclusion of spears, then, since they're not allowed to call out gamesas for poor design decisions here?

believe it

The problem with "listening to the fans" is "most vocal fans" doesn't mean "most fans of the series."

PLEASE NO !!! DO NOT IMITATE OBSIDIAN IN ANY WAY !!!!!!

GO AS USUAL CLASSICAL OLD BETHESDA WAY !

Morrowind style or better ,

From Fallout new vegas wich was quite a failure to me it was boring , the quests where too boring , too much go here go back go there go back go there again and go back again stuff its just Boooring!!! ....

The graphics didnt look innovative and the only good things where the hardcode mode survaval and that companion hud ....

I believe he is just trying to say that the demands (not requests) for Spears have been mostly over the top as of late.

This. Spears were cut out because you can get your spear fix from other weapons. Same with crossbows.

Iron sights with swords.... sounds good.

Bethesda, please don't listen to whiny [censored]

Just kidding, it's great if they listen to wishes. But I still would like the best/most innovative features to be surprises to us all.The most important "feature" of all is that it must feel like a TES game.

I have to agree that New Vegas was great. However, I still prefer Fallout 3. The reason is that even if a lot of gameplay features were better in New Vegas, I felt it had lost the "epic" feel. The world felt tiny and linear, almost devoid of interesting locations. I guess I prefer Bethesda style games.

Emm? :S okay, thats you opinion, Im not saying they should make a game like Obsidian, what im saying is that Obsidian was better to listen to the fans, more open for fans opinions and so on. Bethesda is my favorite gaming company, Morrowind is my all time favorite game, perfection in my eyes. But when Oblivion came out, something had changed in the way Bethesda made the game look and feel, it was not the same. I am worried, I really am, and I speak out loud even if people hate my opinions in this matter.