Bethesda to succeed in creating their first good FA villain? : Fallout 4

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:44 pm

He was a superior version of the insipid Richardson. I've excoriated Bethesda for it's writing in just about every aspect of Fallout 3, but I do think the Enclave is more than the mustache-twirling villain they were rendered as in FO2, as I've argued before there is sense of moral ambiguity in Fallout 3.Richardson in Fallout 2 just spews rancor towards people of any level of mutation, saying how they are basically sub-human and that true humans should reclaim their place on the mainland.Then he postulates that the Enclave will achieve this via the curling F.E.V, which only targets mutated humanoids. Eden conversely states that his modification of the F.E.V targets all mutants from wastelanders to abominations, Eden even sympathizes with the LW over the death of people he may know.But as Eden argues this is required to restore america to what it once was and it's the only way people to live truly free of radiation and it's concomitant abominations, humans are merely the collateral.

In essence Richardson is superintending pogrom against anything other than pure human (ignoring abominations), while Eden is trying to hit the reset button for the greater good, extirpating all forms of mutant including pernicious abominations like super mutants and deathclaws etc (his argument is essentially a utilitarian one).

Edit: I think the fallout wiki (whatever it's called these days) says that Eden was initially going to Richardson's consciousness uploaded onto a computer.

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:40 pm

I just don't understand Edens radio lines to be honest, like its been 200 years man, who in the [censored] remembers baseball?

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:55 am

MOLE RATS are my villains.......WHEN I HAVE THE REPELLANT STICK... only thing that dies right against me.

ELIJAH from dead money? ALL THAT GOLD!!!!... lock him in there! I got all that gold once with a bunch of turbo.

I did enjoy being chased by the assasins and the NCR patrols if I reputationed badly with them. Would rest up near deathclaws and have them have it out with them when they came a callling.

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:57 pm

We all fell in love with her even if she was the bane of our existence

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:09 am

I kinda hope that's what they did to be honest. I just hope he is as interesting Elijah or Joshua Graham then maybe I won't shoot him in the face.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:41 am

Reality dictates that Lanius is the best Villain simply because of his voice. I never kill Lanius, he is merely misguided by Caesar and a golden voice like that cannot be wasted.

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:08 pm

I'd say Ashur was a pretty good villain - maybe even on par with my personal favorites: Father Elijah and Dean Domino. I think Colonel Autumn could've been a good villain had they played him as a good guy rather than a a person who wants to save the Wasteland yet will also kill innocent civilians for little to no reason.

Father Elijah, the Brotherhood Reformer

Spoiler

Not only did he collect advanced military technology, but farming and agricultural technology as well. He was intelligent and extremely capable; outsmarting the best minds of the Old World and improving upon the technology of yore whilst able to handle himself in any situation. He traveled numerous wastelands, journeyed to the Divide, hung out with the Ciphers, visited Big MT, and sought out the treasure of the Sierra Madre. He held off against the creatures of the Divide, lobotomites and angry robots of Big Mountain, Brotherhood of Steel Assassins, and an unknowable amount of dangers in the Wasteland; all with arthritis. Despite his progressive thinking, he was ruthless and unethical - willing to go to any lengths to see his goals through. There might've been a time where he was trying to save his beloved Brotherhood. Though, as time went on, he became an anologue for a protagonist of Fallout 1 who ran out of time, losing sight of his goal and deciding on a new one - wiping the slate clean.

Dean Domino, the King of Swing

Spoiler

In reality, he's a bitter narcissist who couldn't cope with the idea that someone was better than him. A charlatan, pretending to be friendly and affable, but underneath that mask lies his black heart. Corrupted by jealousy and delusions of grandeur, he hates anyone he perceives as better than him. He's a sociopath through-and-through, with no understanding of guilt or empathy; he even confuses optimism for self-righteousness and vilifies Sinclaire for the transgression of being "too happy." He has no remorse nor any regrets for what he's done. He's the why of it all; the Sierra Madre is his fault entirely. He directly ruined more than two lives and indirectly ruined ~~thousands~~ hundreds of others - and he feels no remorse for it. He's the true villain of Dead Money's narrative and too few players ever realize it. He's the most chillingly evil character in Fallout.

Ishmael Ashur, the Raider King

Spoiler

He was a former Brotherhood of Steel Initiate who was thrown to the wolves and ended up leading the pack. Upon finding him, the locals worshipped him as a God and he unified the Pitt under his banner. He's intelligent, savvy, and ambitious - the Pitt is his fresh start, a time to do things right where Lyons did not. In trying to forge a brighter future for the settlement and its inhabitants, he imports slaves from nearby areas to cultivate his city of industry, though not without remorse. He genuinely feels guilt for what he's doing to achieve his goals, though that won't stop him from doing what he believes is right. He's further grounded by the fact that he has loved ones. He's far from heartless; working diligently on a cure for a disease that is plaguing his people. As good as he sometimes appears to be, he realizes that progress comes at a cost - a cost that he is more than willing to pay.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:38 am

To be fair at the end of Dead Money if Dean is still alive he does feel remorse for his actions before leaving for Vegas.

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:47 pm

I interpreted it differently.

Spoiler

Dean Domino, entertainer, singer... thief... explored the Sierra Madre not long after he was rescued by the Courier. Once he left the theater, the Sierra Madre recognized him as a guest, and many doors opened to him. He had to admit, it had been built to last. During his search, he came across the final records of Vera and Sinclair, and realized what happened the night the bombs fell. He felt strangely sad for a moment, and he had no idea why. Shrugging it off, his mind turned instead to where the Courier had come from. Vegas still survived, out there in the Mojave. Its sights, sounds... and casinos, ripe for the taking. So giving the Sierra Madre one last nod and a wink, he set off beyond the Cloud to begin again.

He came close to the epiphany that he's a terrible person, but the conclusion is forgone. For better or worse, this fleeting moment allows him to let go of the Sierra Madre. He brushes it off and walks into the sunset; essentially getting away with the destruction of ~~thousands~~ hundreds of lives in the process; none of whom deserved it - feeling no remorse at all for his actions other than a fleeting moment that he cannot comprehend. He's a textbook example of an evil character who fails in understanding good and it's emphasized in this ending as well as in his interactions with the player through dialogue revealing his past and his relationship with Sinclair.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:32 am

Why he's responsile for the death of thousands lives?

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:34 pm

I wouldn't say he was the reason. The Think Tanks played a bigger role in what happened to the casino then Dean did by creating that cloud. That said Dean is responsible for what happen to Christine. He is a jealous scumbag who used Vera Keyes(by blackmailing her with Med X) to rob Fredrick for all his money just because Fredrick was everything he wasn't. I consider him responsible for Vera and Fredrick death but that's it.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:22 am

They are but because of Autumn not because of Eden. Eden is really just Richardson all over again with a dumber plan since cleansing the Capital Wasteland isn't really going to give either humanity or the Enclave that much of an advantage. Richardson never spews rancor towards mutants he just believes they're not human and so they have to go to make way for actual humans. He even says he doesn't relish the decision and would prefer another way but as far he is concerned it doesn't exist. Unlike Eden he also has no reason to lie to the PC when he says all these things whereas I've argued before that I think Eden is plainly being insincere for obvious reasons. Even if he isn't though there's no real difference there.

The only reason Eden is perceived as a better villain than Richardson is because of Malcolm McDowell's voice acting. Otherwise they're basically identical in terms of motivation and goals (just replace Earth with the Capital Wasteland).

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:59 pm

It's an exaggeration on my part, now that I think about it. He's likely responsible for less than a hundred deaths - both directly and indirectly. Not including Vera and Sinclair, whose lives he directly ruined, he's murdered several of Elijah's subjects. He's also indirectly responsible for the aggressive and hostile security in the Sierra Madre. Sinclair programmed them to act that way to foil their plans, but after Vera confessed, he tried to undo his decisions. Unfortunately, he failed in the process and died in the Vault. The holograms and security processes remained unchanged.

I'd say he's responsible for more than just the deaths of Vera and Sinclair. He killed an untold amount of innocents to remain alive in the Madre and his actions indirectly caused the holograms to be hostile - likely resulting in the deaths of other innocents.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:16 am

Favorite villain? The http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lieutenant; the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Master; http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Set.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:24 am

Not likely. I'm optimistic for FO4 but, the main quests of Beth games have always been their weakest points. Their best main quest, in my opinion, would have to be Morrowind. Absolutely love that game. Went downhill from there unfortunately. It did pick up at Skyrim, hence the optimism concerning FO4. I really hope they looked at NV...

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:09 pm

Yeah, Ashur was a good antagonist in Fallout 3's "The Pitt" DLC. His methods for using slaves were harsh, but his intentions were admirable. He wanted to cure the Trog mutation, and bring back the spark of civilization. Wernher on the other hand, seemed very self serving, even going so far as to practically torture a baby to get what he wanted.

To be fair, Jon Irenicus really was an awesome villain. He was very pragmatic and logical, not outright maniacal evil, but he was ruled by a desire for revenge against those who'd cursed him. He was harshly punished by the elven gods for attempting to drain power from the Tree of Life, they stripped him of his elven heritage, cursed his soul to rot, and banished him from his homeland. Due to the soul rot, he began to lose his ability to feel joy, love or pleasure. He'd attempted to recreate or spark anew his emotions, particularly his love for Ellesime, but his inability to experience love or remember it, only left him even more bitter and hateful towards those who'd punished him. His story is kind of tragic. Jon didn't hold any particular hate for the Bhaalspawn protagonist, to him the protagonist was merely a means to an end. Not to mention his voice acting was awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdy-k_qLdQg

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:24 am

I hope not, I don't want the game to have a set antagonist, I would like it to be groups again like New Vegas so that we can choose a faction or your own faction to ally with.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:33 am

In my opinion, Frank wasn't really a "villain", he was just a tough, mean, psychopathic killer dog... the Enclave pointed him which direction to kill, and he did it.

I really feel that there is no real 'evil' villain that has shown up aside from President Richardson and John Henry Eden. The Master wasn't really evil, he was just trying to make people's lives better by "evolving" them into beings who are more suited too live and thrive in a nuclear wasteland. When he finds out that this new evolved human is sterile... well he just loses it and blows himself up! His Lieutenant wasn't really evil either, he was just trying to make his master's vision a reality. But they are villains, that's for sure. I find that the best villains, are the ones who think they are doing what's best for everyone around them.

President Kimball and General Oliver were just as bad as Caesar and Lanius. Actually, I felt the NCR was just a shy worse than the Legion. Sure, the Legion practiced slavery, pretty much everyone in the Legion was slaves, but at least they knew their lot in life. The NCR on the other hand, really just appeared like a democracy, but I feel it was much closer to an oligarchy in my opinion. Every time they expanded, the only people who really benefited from it were the brahmin barons and the politicians they supported, and not the regular average NCR citizen... and especially not the local populations. At least that's what I really felt while I was interacting and talking with NCR citizens and soldiers.

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:22 am

Yea, and again after Oblivion.

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:46 pm

To b
You have beaten Shia Labeouf

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:27 am

i say ashur was a rather good guy,he wants to cure trogs then free the slaves,another reason he calls them workers,also in his safe is a note saying what he thinks

there are protagnists,and antagonist,

the Protagonist is moreless the PC (player charater ) there 2 antagonist ,ashur or wether ,your pick ,mine is wether

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:06 pm

Set was a villain?

I get along with him most of the time.

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:51 pm

He either exploits the PC as expendable help, or eats them.
(He's a cool NPC though; and you can leave him on good terms. he also has some neat 'Tell Me About' replies.)

» Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:48 pm

Humanity (a paucity of which) isn't going to have much of a chance with super mutants and deathclaws still roaming the wastes that will eventuate from Richardson's plan.Eden's plan targeted ALL radioactive mutagens, extirpating everything and essentially being a hard reset and not a partial one with a significant threat left over.

Again as I've said Eden provides some sort of utilitarian argument for the proposed fate of the CW, while Richardson just wants an ethnic (ostensibly) cleansing of the world because of 4 lines of DNA dissimilitude.

Richardson - "Oh, I don't relish this decision if there was another way - but there isn't. No price is too high for the survival of the human race.If you were human, you'd feel the same way."

Eden - " The good people of this country cannot regain control while mutation runs rampant through our land." Mutations like the 'super mutants' and ghouls must be purged from our society, our world, before we can proceed anew."

» Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:49 am

How does that popular saying go again? The one about good intentions and hell being paved with it?