This argument always annoys me. What's the point in a discussion board if nobody can discuss anything and everyone has to agree. Want multiplayer? Go away. Dislike Bethesda's focus on home building? Go away. With no individual thought comes no discussion points. There must be subjective negative and positive opinions to have a board.

I agree that Bethesda is often very egotistical, or perhaps just how they market themselves and how Todd Howard talks, but I don't agree with the area the OP is saying they're egotistical in.

yes. what you say makes me so happy, i get all excited.

Oh, I didn't realise someone made that argument before I did. Usually I'm the only one making it. Glad someone agrees, but I feel a bit stupid for not reading the entire thread before replying.

One question OP, did you pre order the Pip Boy Edition or nah?

Personally, I don't think we should comment on "It's over because they said they added this into the game!" Sort of things. Go check out a lot of companion mods that have been made for Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim, many add in romance options, some are great, some are meh, and many are very very horribly done. I view Bethesda taking a queue from modders, and trying too up their game.

We should wait until the game is out, and we've played it, before we decide something they've added in really ruins the game... but if it's optional, you can't really claim it'll ruin the game even if it's bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmlWtLx6DYc... best scene in the whole game.

This is true for oh so many of the things brought up on these forums.

nonsense. even your skyrim romances can quit you.

also, there's always been npc's that refuse to play with you, depending on how you played (jericho, aela, you name them)

and ai is just as sophisticated as you make it, with enough effort put into it, you can easily make npc's sophisticated enough to feel real with what skyrim has onboard already (this is not an assumption, i've done quite some stuff with ai, most of my npc's actually do stuff based on "whatever comes to their mind" all day, and in fact, it takes surprisingly little effort to get convincing results

in an ai's view, to play = to exist. so it can't decide to not play, just as you can't decide to not exist.

if you let aside the question of consciousness and hence reduce feeling to, like, a particular emotional stats configuration, there's not too much problem with this. it's actually just what, like, relationship ranks, alignment, faction relations and all these are about.

you forget the "soul" of any video game: immersion.

reality is what you BELIEVE it's real. it really isn't any more than this. space invaders and fallout are UNIVERSES apart in their ability to make you believe, and in this regard, it IS different. it doesn't matter if the second left space dude and dogmeat both are technically just piles of pixels (i mean come on, what are we then than piles of atoms?), because you won't care when mr space dies, but your sadness when dogmeat does, that's REAL. and that's what makes the difference.

oh don't be hard on yourself, i'm absolutely sure you could have put it a billion times better than i did, yes.

Since he is not fond of one feature out of many, that means he should not buy the game at all?

Do you even logic?

I think generally the gamesas forums are open to criticisms of upcoming games as long as they're well thought out.

There are some people on here who will defend every aspect of the game till the end of the earth no matter what though.

You miss the point.

The entire game and game universe exists for your gratification in one form or another.

OP's issue with relationships with any of these puppets, while certainly a cute philosophy to think about, ignores that the entire universe of Fallout exists for the player to have a relationship with, any and every way the engine and programming allows, including mods.

Shooting a character in the head is also a relationship.

How much choice on the matter does that character have, especially if their sole existence is to exist for the purpose of getting shot?

If having pretend six, or pretend "relationship" with a pretend character is more controversial than making a pretend character's whole body explode into a gory pile of giblets, then, there's a problem.

They're only bi if you want them to be.

Baby steps.

The people that can't take criticism can be just as toxic as those who criticize it seems.

Well, wasn't that the case?

All companions being bisixual sounds like a move from Bethesda to be 'politically correct' which is crap, but it's definitely not a deal breaker for me though. On the other hand, it grants more player freedom.

It would be cool though if your companions started hooking up either with each other or other NPC's if you showed no interest in a companion at a certain point. Similar to how your squadmates in Mass Effect 3 started hooking with each other, depending on who you romanced.

You don't need to make your text huge.

I would show you but they're all dead now.

But stupid comments aside I'm just tired of the "don't like it don't _____ it" argument for a lot of the reasons people here have already stated.

no, i totally got your point. i'm just saying, it totally doesn't matter what it IS (or exists for), but what you THINK it is* - in a game just as in life. after all, you can't proof the REAL universe doesn't exist for your own gratification only (if you could, you'd have an eternal place in the philosopher's hall of fame anyhow). if you ACCEPT it for real, it IS real for you (and yeah sure, you won't accept the game for real because the bullet doesn't hurt you etc. but remember, pain is just an electrical impulse to your brain - but the game just needed to cause you pain, and you'd be much more likely to accept it for real. and now imagine you wake up into such a force feedback scenario and it starts right in your bedroom (or it's virtual counterpart). how easy would you accept it then? it's the old matrix thing. and we will get this sort of questions a lot more once vr really kicks in

can i quote you on that? )

well HE could shoot YOU instead, just for an example...

though that this would cause his whole universe to cease to exist might be somewhat of a downside, admittedly

That response is a bit juvenile. It's possible to dislike one design choice without wanting to throw out the entire package. "Just don't buy it!" is the refuge of someone who can't defend a position.

And as an aside, I don't agree with the OP's argument. I just loath the "don't buy it" response on principle.

Solipsism works for a gaming universe.

It's independently verifiable and testable ... unless someone goes all real-world Solipsism, but, that's just circular reasoning. May as well say we're all in The Matrix and debate loses any point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

Then there's Plato's forms where the idea or form of something is more important than the physical reality of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Forms

... or something along those lines.

You could argue that, but, it's a bit of a weak argument in the espect that the social contract you enter into with the game is entirely one-sided, and there's also the whole limitations of verisimilitude in the "reality" of the game as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

... and, shooting something in the head IS a relationship. Any interaction between two of anything whether it's physical, verbal, virtual, whatever is a relationship.

The subjectivity of the relationships in the game are another thing, as that's something entirely personal. It's the 4th wall.

I'll enjoy Fallout 4 as an immersive video game, but, to me, it's just a game. I'm not going to lose any sleep over anything in the game.

Someone else, however, might have a crisis of personality and spend a whole week trying to decide what gender they're going to play.

It is, however, just a game, and though it's meant to be thought provoking, and possibly present some moral dilemmas for some that haven't explored some of the thought experiments prevalent in some schools of philosophy, it's still just a game, and anyone getting too serious, and having way too strong an emotional investment in anything that has to do with the game might be best to take some time off and away from this kind of entertainment.

A healthy interest and participation in the game is fine.

Reading too much into puppet NPCs that are modeled for our entertainment? Eh, if it means that much to someone, then, to those it does, it'd probably be healthier to write a proper paper all about it for freshman Philosophy, Media Studies, or some other freshmen course at University than to get all OCD and give it more weight than it deserves.

After all, it really is just a game.

as he said ,i am not going to bother to read further

except that we have a voiced protagonist and a extended version of fallout shelter we absolute nothing about the game yet n so flaming gamemechanicq that are at this moment either rumours or just speculation is silly at best

So to make an example of why i like this setup of "there all Bisixual" is that i realy liked the character of Casandra from DAI, but when it got to romancing that character, well your out of luck if your not male. Alot of the romances in DAI where uninteresting, infact the only one i found well done, was the one of the Gay (male/male) one with Dorian, simply because his character is so well written in my opinion, and i'm a straight man admitting i found a gay romance more/better then my straight options. You may think, wait your a man but you want a lisbian romance for your female character? Well yes, i still often choose to pursue female romances, regardless of six of my main PC.

That said i hope it is more indepth then just Skyrim like getting hitch without anny attachment being created by story/events that you and your prospective romance go throught together.

Edit: forgot Iron Bull also had gay option in romancing.

I think they did a good job of romance in Skyrim.

Fetch and carry quests are what Bethesda excels at, and that is what real life romance is.

I didn't think it made sense in the Bard's College. But romance. No problem.

I think Skyrim's Vilja mod did romance right. You had to do several things for her, including meeting her parents, before she even thought about marriage.

Modders always tend to make better romances than Bethesda.

Perfectly what i mean, i want to connect to a romancable character due to there background, story and personality, not because she/he sents me out to collect ten blue flowers and some trinket from a junk pedler.