I agree for the most part. Smithing, lockpicking, enchanting, and probably a few others I didn't think of shouldn't count towards level up.

I do think schools of magic should count towards level up though, since they are all useful in combat. Same with sneak, since it is used for stealth based combat more than anything else.

How do you expect to level your combat skills when your not using them! Lay of the other skills and start fighting some giants!

A lot of people roaming this forum really blows my mind man. Makes GameFAQ forum feels like a rocket scientist convention.

No, we don't.



That means you spend 2/3 of your time improving non-combat skills. The bandits and monsters you face spend a much larger proportion of their time gaining combat experience.


But your gear is worse, with the exception of lockpicking, since lockpicks are more important than the skill.



Yes it does, you are training to be a blacksmith, the enemies you fight are training to be combatants. Combatants beat blacksmiths in fights, unless the blacksmiths superior equipment makes up for the skill difference.



Which is why you rely on lockpicking/pickpocketing to buy strong gear, possibly including invisibility scrolls so you can end fights quickly using sneak attacks.




Okay, you could argue for overlap between 2H and 1H weapons. But switching between ranged spells and ranged bows, becoming excellent at neither, while your enemies focus on just being good archers or just good mages means your enemies should be stronger than you. Training 1H and archery makes you stronger in a different way. You can do some damage from afar, and don't need to run when enemies get close.



Because they want an open-world RPG rather than a linear RPG and want to add strategy to character development.



The flaw in Oblivion was that you were punished for using primary skills, because you would level up without enough attribute points to assign.



I think it would remove the strategy from character development.You would go from having good and bad decisions, to having good decisions and power-maximizing decisions.

The only thing I dislike really is how selling stuff increases your level. They need to make it like past games where haggling is what increases your level and not make that an automatic thing.

The amount of blind fan-boyism is really mind-bogging.
It's not the first time such thread appear, each time the same completely idiotic "arguments" (and that's a very loose use of the word, considering they are nearly entirely made up of strawmen and reductio ad absurdum) are made in a knee-jerk defense of a system that has some very obvious flaws.

No, it's NOT logical to become weaker in fighting ability because you have learnt to brew potions or to forge a cuirass. Someone saying it is should really stop for a while and consider the logical absurdity.

O.K. I do not understand why people keep saying sneak is hard. I am only on my first playthrough, am level 17 and have 90 in sneak... I follow behind farmers and guards (close enough that I could pick-pocket them) as they walk along the roads and am in light armor "running" ... so I do not understand how people can say that they are level 50 and can not sneak.

A lot of folk here are essentially saying the OP isn't playing the game properly because he's implied that he's concentrated on support skills over combat skills, but a BIG part of the Bethesda marketing for Skyrim (and Elder Scrolls) is that this game is all do about doing what you want how you want and playing it your way. The OP is pretty much telling us all that the game mechanics by their very nature are preventing him from doing this and it is hampering his ambitions in the game, so while his argument may not be meeting with much support or sympathy, it is not my mind entirely invalid.

I stopped reading right here.

Improved weapons and armor add nothing to your combat strength?! Are you stupid or really stupid?

LvL 30 crafter < LvL 30 mage/warrior/hunter/ect.

Makes perfect sense. The system has worked flawlessly with me.

You do it to yourself you do, you and no one else.... :whistling:

With the fortified strength, weapon prowess potion, resist potions, healing potions, and the rest of the pill popping you will become a veritable uber buffed Popeye on super spinach who could well one shot that dragon.

Use the damn potions/ craften armor / Enchants to make you stronger! You can make pots/enchats that fortify abilitys to make up for your lack of combat training.

Some people choose to go out and hit crap with a sword and find their gear through exploration.

You aren't weaker! you just havent become as strong and my big armed skull mashing nord.

Don't get upset because you though you'd be special if you hit level 40 before seeing anything past dragonreach.

Pickpocket and speech increase your money, which can be used to improve your gear and other skills. Theoretically, lockpicking does the same, but I haven't had to buy any lockpicks yet, and I can open master locks, so I agree lockpicking is useless (it should have been combined into pickpocketing with lockpicking perk line).

protip:

1. Level smithing
2. Equip your OP shiz
3. Run at giant, hold block for 10 minutes and level 5 times

/game over

Enchanting, Smithing, and Alchemy are all essentially combat skills. You don't really have a point. You can't take advantage of skills like lockpicking or speechcraft in combat, it's simply not possible.

It amazes me to no end how much people want to be restricted or told how to play with these games. It even more baffling that people do not understand the great ability and flexibility to dynamically change the in game experience based on the players action. I guess people do not understand the control they have to change the dynamics to suit their personal play style, they much rather have gamesas restrict what they can or can not do so the player does not travel down the a particular path that may lead to certian outcomes. i.e. getting your ass whipped because you spent all your time making [censored] and not learning how to fight. Seems to me, some players want their cake and eat it too. Remember OP you chose to level those things, now deal with the consequences of your decisions. That flashy new sword means little if you have idea how to swing it. I think that is great balance.

That's not the point.
The point is that by learning smithing or alchemy, your combat skills have become comparatively weaker. There is no logic in that, period. It's not because I learn to do something else that everybody suddendly becomes better at fighting. That's absurd.

Agree with OP.

It can be argued either way though. Doesn't really matter since there's a difficulty slider.

A simple level calculation modifier would fix everything. Example: Since enemies scale directly according to the character's level, why not just integrate non-combat skills with a reduced modifier, so instead of skills like speech modifying level gain at 100% after an increase, have it only affect leveling by only 50% or 25% where as direct combat skills, like one-hand, would modify level increase at a full 100%. This being said, how do we know that this hasn't already been implemented in Skyrim?

Personally, I haven't had much issue with level scaling even though I focus quite a bit on Smithing (currently lvl 51), but my main combat skills aren't far off (Bow, One-handed, and main armor around low to mid 40s). That being said, for those that are arguing against the OP with statements such as, "Well, you're becoming stronger overall by being able to buy/forge better armors" this really doesn't hold validity. Think of it this way, how is leveling to 35 mainly because you got Smithing and Enchanting to both 80+ while your combat skills are still in the low 30s help when you're fighting at level mobs with 60+ in their base combats? Sure you'll have better armor that you either purchased for rock bottom prices or reinforced with uber magic, but it's just a matter of time before the big tree falls hard. It's not going to help the fact you're chipping millimeters off their health bar because it feels like you're jabbing a toothpick at them since your offensive skills are so low.

They should have put in a tutorial for the user settings. (Difficulty settings change, FTW)

You're half right. Your combat skills have not become weaker. They just haven't become stronger. But I will agree that seperating crafting from combat level makes sense to vary the play style. But if the player intentionally levels all noncombat skills then they are intentionally not trying to make a combat based character. Maybe they should roleplay a shop in a town and sell bread or something.

So people are suggesting the player is the only one who should have the ability to train, i.e. grow and become more powerful during the course of the game? That is illogical and unrealistic, in my opinion.

If combat skills were comparable at all times the game would break as the smithing, enchanting, alchemy would have an even greater impact on battles. In fact, it would define them.

Why should the player have that advantage? To me that limits the dynamic and very real consequences when deciding what skills to practice making the game less interactive.

..But you don't become weaker by leveling smithing/alchemy/enchanting. Just the opposite really.. those skills can make your character very powerful even if you haven't leveled up a combat skill.

Now skills like lockpicking/speech are a different story. I don't like that improving those also levels up enemies because they don't directly make your character stronger in any way.

But you can't totally discount crafting skills, as the combination of all crafting skills is a stronger character build than heavy armour, one handed, and blocking.