Hi there!

The flaw is an easy find: when you have perks like smithing that which are increasing your level but adding nothing to your combat strength we have a problem.

I leveled Smithing and Enchanting in my first walkthrough very intensive. Also Lockpicking, Restoration and Speech without doing too much for it.

At one time in the game i had 30 block, 60 one hand, 60 light armor, 75 smithing, 70 enchanting, 60 Lockpicking, 70 speech and 50 restoration(and some other non combat skills on 30-40). As you see about 325 skill points are coming from non-combat-skills. And only 150 from combat skills. This means: 2/3 of my level is coming from nothing then skills that dont help me to fight.

This is a problem in differenct ways:
1. If i only train my combat skills, my level is much lower but my combat efficiency is much higher. That means: more damage against lower level mobs in cause of the level scaling. This makes the game for pure combat chars too easy.
2. The opposite is it makes the game harder if you train too much things who add nothing to combat. Without any good reason. Why should the combat difficulty be increased if you train speed, smithing and lockpicking too much? This makes no sense at all.
3. Think about mixed chars like thieves. Sneaking is hard already. Until about 50-60 you don't have a real chance to sneak up to someone without being noticed(at reasonable speed and with light armor) So you train about three additional skills like pickpocketing, lockpicking and sneaking. And the only reward is that you have a hard time with your enemies since they are strong, you have only light armor and sneaking is very weak.
4. You are not stronger AT all if you bring TWO Handed Weapons, ONE Handed Weapons, Archery, Destruction and so on all to the same level. You can't use your bow while casting spells. And you dont use a two handed weapon while you use a one handed weapons. So why do you need to face stronger enemies if you train them all equally?

Final Question is: why would anyone scale your enemies based on your pure level?

I think there is a mistake in your thinking process! Oblivion had something similar. Your level were increased with your skill-ups, too. The difference is that you had the attributes back then. You trained for example Repair, Lockpicking and pickpocketing and got the possibility to increase for example strength, agility and speed on level up. So: even when you've trained only non combat skills you got stronger in combat anyway because strength and other attributes increased your combat skills, too.

There is a chance to get your level-scaling to work, anyway. What would you think about a secondary(internal) combat-rating. Based On this combat rating you level your creatures and items. Not based on the overall level.
The combat rating is calculated based on 4 of your combat skills: 1. skill is the highest armor skill(Block, Light Armor, Heavy Armor). 2.+3. skill are the two highest weapon skills(magic schools of destruction and conjuration is counted as a "weapon", too) 4. Skill is the highest crafting skill. (Potions, improved weapons and a perfectly enchanted armor makes you stronger in combat, too). So you have up to 400 skill-points. You can now use this Rating to determine the enemy strength and loot quality. :hubbahubba:

Another one of these...*sigh*

I leveled up to somewhere between 25-30ish pretty much only getting skill ups in Enchanting, Smithing, and Alchemy. I then USED those skills when I went adventuring to help me out. The game was still challenging but fair. It's not a problem with the leveling system, it's a problem with a lot of people not taking advantage of what they learned outside of combat.

Not a bug. Not a flaw. Not a glitch.

Just a personal choice as to how you want to play the game.

I don't see a problem here.

For example, when you level Enchanting you are adding to your level but not your combat skills, but on the other hand you are giving your toon the possibility to make better gear, which in turn improves your overall combat effectiveness. Even leveling Speech gives your toon slightly better prices at vendors, which in turn can make you a little richer and in the end also improves your overall effectiveness. Everything has a use that can make your character better.

i find speech very hard to level... grinding for loot to sell = raising lvl too and im lvl 52 and still have 77 speech, ive also used a few levels to train, probably 15 speech in training.

Smithing does increase your combat strength. It improves defense and, for weapon users, offense. It can also make money for you that allow you to improve things in other ways.

If you're leveling up a skill and not using it, then that can be a problem. But I'm not entirely sure it's a system problem.

I disagree that this is a flaw. These supplemental skills do go a long way towards making your character more powerful, or more effective. The fact that they level you without adding any combat power is actually quite balanced, because they make you more powerful in other ways.

If everything boosted your combat potential, then you'd quickly become a fighting monster, PLUS you'd get the benefit of better armor, or better sneak, or w/e.

so if i spend my whole life grinding things up with my mortar and pestle I wont be able to one hit kill a dragon with my battleaxe? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!?!?!?

This, especially since I've made as a test a character with 100 alch/enchant/smithing, crafted "perfect" daedric gear with fortify heavy armour/fortify one handed/fortify block, and managed to get a character with about 690 armour I believe (higher than the 672 armour cap), and about 140 attack.

Compare this to the "skill" character test, using 100 Heavy Armour, 100 Block, and 100 one handed, using stock daedric gear, with about about 400 armour, and only 40 attack. Significantly weaker.

Clearly the OP needs to improve enchanting and smithing even further. Enchanting really only gets there once you hit 80 skill, but really should wait till 100 with dual enchant.

I kind of like that you have to watch what you do or risk gimping yourself horribly. Reminds me a bit of Asheron's Call 1 where you could spend your skill points any way you want and wind up with a lol build.

This is not a flaw or a glitch. Its called a good role playing game.

If all you did was read books in real life, would you be athletically fit? Nope, but you still get older every day, whether you read books or exercise.

Think about it. This is the perfect role play system. You have to live with the choices you make. They have benefits, and consequences.

Not a flaw

Cheers

I think they should have made it so that the crafting skills only added a much smaller contribution to your leveling. That way it still contributes but you don't end up gimping yourself.

I don't see how anyone can't see that the OP is at the very least half right.

Now he's talking about working on your smithing or enchanting and how that effects enemy difficulty. But I have a far simpler problem. I have to be very careful not to do anything that might cause me to level up a skill I don't care about. Let's say I loot dungeons and sell items to traders to make cash. That's not unreasonable is it? BUT if I do this I wind up levelling up speech which I neither want nor need to happen. This wouldn't be so bad but as already stated this effectively means combat is being made harder for me because enemies scale according to level and not according to related combat skills.

I agree that if you improve smithing you should in theory have better equipment. So really I don't see an issue with this. But I do think there should be an option to NOT LEVEL UP A SKILL. It should be a choice, not enforced upon me

I think all skills help in your overall effectiveness. As I said before, even Speech help you get better prices, which in turn can make you able to get stronger gear. And I really don't see someone having to avoid doing something (such as selling stuff or stopping picking locks) just to not improve that skill.

Of course if someone decide to grind a non-combat skill and end up leveling several levels in the process, then that can become an issue. But, well, just don't do that..

@OP
I am sorry man, but you created your own problem.
Power leveling only certain skills and raising your level quickly is just, I'm sorry, not being good at the game.
There is a certain level of skill an RPG can have, and it lies in making and leveling a character with balance.
The game offers countless combinations of skills to put together to forge your own identity and character style.
Boosting non combative skills with boosting no combative skills is just a bad idea.

Enchanting: Access to ridiculously powerful equipment at higher levels, including the ability to recharge them more easier and more often.
Alchemy: Access to ridiculously powerful poisons and potions at higher levels.

Problem?

I take it this is your first ES game. Wonky, nonsensical leveling is their trademark.

This. The game is harder if you don't level up combat skills? Really?! Of course it is, it's entirely up to you how difficult you want things to be and which areas you feel you need assistance with most.

Playing a very combat oriented game with no focus on any combat skills - isn't that a flaw with the player himself?
If you do get into trouble for this, can't you simply turn down the difficulty for the current character, and rethink your strategies for the next one?

Have the players no responsibility on their own?

If your Smithing or Enchanting is leveling you up too fast, then stop Smithing and Enchanting. There is no game related reason to grind those skills other than you want to increase them. Since by increasing them you get access to more powerful weapons and armor, then you should be able to handle what the game throws at you.

Problem is this really: You make an iron dagger at smithing level 20 - you get ~10% towards your next level. You make an iron dagger at smithing level 80 - you get ~10% to your next level. You carefully craft some Elven armour, you get ~10% to your next level. Smithing is definitely not working quite right there is it?

Ideally, as a smith, I can protect myself more effectively and deal more damage, while not being directly more skilled in defence or attack. This is how it should be. The same is true for the other "support" type skills. Alchemy skill will let your artificially boost your stats to become more effective, again I think this is spot on.

I'm not sure about Alchemy, but smithing always giving you the same % towards you next level is what can quickly make leveling in general seem a little bit broken. However you should be getting some excellent bonuses from it, if you use it correctly.

Tell me, is smithing the ONLY skill that always give the same % towards the next level regardless? Personally, as an Archer / sneak leveling these two skills is taking longer and longer...my smithing is still ~10 daggers / leather bracers / anything for the next level. I have enough crafting elements to jump directly to level 100 in smithing any time I want, but I feel I'd be cheating myself to do so.

Scoob.

If you engage in actions for the sole purpose of leveling non-combat skills, rather than engage in combat skills while gathering resources, you will run into problems.

It happens if you purchase endless amounts of Iron Bars and Leather Strips to powerlevel Smithing at the forge without ever "fighting your way to resources". Same goes for Alchemy and Enchanting. In theory, it's fun; in practice, it's punishing and, in all honesty, no fun at all. The hell is fun about buying mountains of iron to get 100 Smithing and craft the best armor and go "lol i beat the game yeaa!!".

Skyrim is trying to make the game an unified experience of exploration, crafting and combat. Explorating allows you to both engage in combat and gather crafting materials to improve. Merely fighting bandits outside the gates of Whiterun won't help you level up crafting skills; merely buying materials from shops won't enable you to paralyze people with a bow shot. Same goes for Thieving skills; a thief isn't a master of combat; just a thief. Perhaps consider playing an assassin, if you complain about combat, and level your character as such. An assassin isn't merely a master of poisons, but also a master of anatomy and combat techniques.

I personally played a Thief, along with a huge focus on Alchemy. Result was a level 38 character with 45 Archery and maxed Lockpick/Sneak/Pickpocket/Alchemy, and a total reliance on poisons to get any combat done. Needless to say, doing the Nightingale questline was a pain.

Impossible to play with high non-combat skills ? No, but very, very specialized.

Either way, I think it's somewhat unintended that you'd encounter such problems. I can't see how you'd have the gold and items to powerlevel Blacksmithing/Alchemy/Enchanting without engaging in combat if you don't "game" Skyrim. I believe the biggest issue occurs when people try to "game" Skyrim; I tried out my first game legit, and everything went fine. I started a second game, suspecting there was a penalty inherent to crafting skills if you focused on them and THEM alone. If someone sneaks behind innkeepers endlessly to get easy levels, or quick saves/loads to get a 100% chance of pickpocketing, never fights guards/face jailtime/gets randomly detected by trolls and Wispmothers, they shouldn't be surprised they're struggling in combat.



Funny, I played the exact same character : Archer/Sneak, and I noticed Smithing was so awfully easy to level it kind of bored me to death. Alchemy and Enchanting are different, however, at least if you don't go on a gold binge to buy magic armor, or if you buy ingredients => sell potions => wait 24 hours => redo.

They need to fix Smithing. Iron Daggers and Leather Bracers need to stop giving as much "experience" as Glass Armor. It's the reason everyone is powerleveling it with eyes closed. People will say "LOL JUST DON'T CRAFT THEM.", but it's not an option; I have the bars, so I'll use them to level up Smithing. However, it's disheartening to me that crafting a pair of Glass Boots, the ingredients of which I had to dungeon dive to find, gives JUST AS MUCH as the most basic iron item.

With 70 smithing and 70 enchanting you can make gear that is so ridiculously imbalanced you can one-shot everything, especially when you couple it with 60 one hand...

200 damage swords bro, get 'em.

The only skills I can agree that won't add to your combat ability are pickpocket, lockpick and speech. Everything else comes in handy if you know what you are doing.

If you didn't quite follow, here's why all the other spells add to combat:

One-handed, destruction, two-handed and archery are all very clear why.
Light armor, heavy armor and block are also quite clear, they keep you alive.
Smithing, enchanting and alchemy can be used to make your existing weapons and armors more powerful and also let's you use poisons and potions which heal you mid-combat.
Restoration and alteration are like a second layer of armor, they keep you alive.
Sneak makes you able to hide from enemies even after being seen and make for lethal sneak attacks.
Illusion let's you calm and opponent, or frenzy them to attack their friends. Many consider it OP.
Conjuration is another version of armor, it let's you summon a minion that takes all damage for you.