I agree. Also, many of these posters are doing the opposite of what they're piously telling the OP to do. Ignor the bits they don't like and focus on the rest.
Although the OP has his/her own way of playing and voiced these opinions, he/she also has some very valid points.

ie: there really IS not much other choice. Become an animal/cannibal to be in a guild (and have to beat up women too to begin with). Become a murderer as in not just killing bad guys but anybody, without any code like house war or war in general, become a thief of the worst kind (if there is such a thing). Become complicit/ Accomplice to a rather unstable spirit that hides in the celler where many other rather unpleasent things seem to happen or join a namby pamby "Bards Guild" where you get to learn how to play an instrument all day -Lovely!

(Whispering in background. "Sorry? Say that again?" More whispering.) Ahem. Slightly misleading there. I meant to say "Join a naby pamby Bards Guild where you literally CAN'T learn how to play a musical instument all day." Same thing. Rubbish alternative options.

Think about what you just said....I'll wait....
Most people think that the Nazi party was a "bad" idea, but racism and prejudice still run rampant. There's no better example of a bad idea than looking back into history. ~True Story~

I know right? This guy is freaking out!

I love you.

I give up

Most of you "forgive my french" svck...

"Ignore the quest"
What a lame excuse i shouldn't have to skip content because my argonian shadow scale wanted to make a quick buck and accidentally found an enslaved people he now wishes to free for a false sense of honorability.., TODD F*****& HOWARD HIMSELF SAID DO WHAT YOU WANT! why should i have to miss content because of my moral guidelines which last i checked was the very definion of an rpg

"Its just a game"
Get. Off. The. Fourms. Then. Are you implying you have an amazing life and your on the fourms just cus "p.s. i have an amazing life, at least better then most". Tell me, how do you play video games? To Watch the explosions and push X and X for 2 hours? Do you even listen to the terribad dialogue or read the lorefilled books? Just get out and watch your interactive television
noo really? Well i for 1 want to get the most out of my gaming experience. Being forced to guard a weak god isnt something i want my hero of skyrim to do. Why not make us a option to kill seprate noturnal from the theives guild? Why not start a new chain reaction and be a true theif and out wit her? Or rebel againt her by finding a new god? Hell i can go on but i wont

People...role playing is so much more then being forced on a path or not using. Thefast travel system.. i wish bethesda turned skyrim into a real rpg and not a nature walking simulator / lets all blacksmith 90 and get a daedric armored theif who duel weilds swords and can one shot everything with a 25× dagger

To everyone:

@commet above

In the words of socrates " go fornicate yourself"

My main point is that you are not your character

That means that your character may have very, very different values than you. That's the way I play it. I now have an evil character just to experience the full game. That character is doing things that would make me sick doing in real life.

If you approach the game as with the idea that you are your character, and that the game is basically you in Skyrim, then I think a lot of things will be cut off from you. The solution is to just don't do them.

Even in the Thieves Guild beside the quest you mention, you have to steal, frame people and do all kinds of immoral things. Yes needing to have your character be dedicated to Nocturnal is a tough thing to do. I figure my character made the pledge out of self interest but will eventually renege on the deal.

The way I look at my Player Character (PC) is that the PC is not me. Not at all. I look at the PC as a character in a story (like a character in a book I'm writing or a movie I'm directing), with his or her own morals, motivations and background. When faced with a situation i don't ask "what would I do" I as "what would my character do"

Oh so its ok when you say most every one svcks but I can't
everyone?

You seem to be a bit confused. First, in an RPG, you don't get to do whatever you want. You get to make choices based on who your character is. If that means that your lawful good paladin doesn't get to poison his weapon, then that's too damn bad. If that means that your assassin doesn't get to serve the god of happiness and sunlight, then them's the breaks. RPGs aren't about doing whatever you want. They're about having the freedom to do whatever you want, and choosing not to because it makes the game more interesting. "Ignore the quest" isn't just a reasonable suggestion, it is the only one. If your character doesn't fit the action you're trying to make him do, then you need to either come up with a reason for him to do it, or admit that you don't care that the game is an RPG and all you want are phat lootz.

As for your second points, I had to break out my "Troll to English" dictionary, but I think they are that the posters who have responded thus far are losers, which is simply further evidence that you are hopelessly deluded, and that you have no idea how lore in the Elder Scrolls verse works (kill a daedra? really?). You seem to be under the impression that Bethesda exists simply to satisfy your desire to get cool stuff and not feel like a dike for stealing and killing your way to it. I will hopefully be among many to tell you that you are mistaken. Whether or not you want to accept it, Skyrim is just a game, and you can't have the opportunity to do things that make no sense (killing a daedra, ditching the daedric patron god of thieves, etc.) because they have to concern themselves with making a game that is worth playing.

U can infact take said skeleton key, kill mercer and then just "forget" to take it back. So actually you can do exactly what mercer did, and even go farther and take the eyes of the falmer too. Everyone's happy

Hey this thread reminds me of a mass effect 3 complaint...

You ruined the game for yourself not Bethesda.

You chose to join the thrives guild.

You chose to complete the quest line.

You chose to put your rl into a GAME.

You chose to make a big deal out of nothing.

It's your choices that ruined the game for YOU.

I have been playing TES games since Morrowind. Never joined the thieves guild and never joined the DB.

Next time take some time and think BEFORE you jump into a guild. I'm joining a criminal origination but it's ok because these are good criminals... Yeah that dose not work. No honor among thieves etc. you expected criminals to good. So it's all your fault. You have nobody to blame but yourself...

Did I mention it's your fault?

The problem with the TG questline is that the writers seem to forget the Guild is supposed to be an organised crime family right about where Karliah makes her appearance. I found the latter part of the questline patently absurd, with plot holes big enough to drive a semi through. The player should have had the option to bump off Karliah for stupidity, and possibly Mercer as well for incompetence.

Every single one of the TG members should be bumped off for stupidity. They all start hating Mercer for stealing from the guild yet the guild seem to think that it's ok to steal from others who actually work for what they have. If anything I had hope we had the option to not kill Mercer and to make up some story to the guild back at home about how Karliah and Brynjolf were in the scheme, and how both of them created a plan to made it as if Mercer was responsible for stealing from the guild. For a theif Mercer is awesome in the art.

You have absolutely no concept of how organized crime works do you? By your logic the Imperials and Stormcloaks should kill whomever they want because soliders kill.

Or just make sure your character dies at the hands of a dragon, they'll absorb your soul like you do theirs. Then that dragon will become the next Alduin and the cycle begins anew.

Then don't do the quests, don't join the guild. Pretty easy, wasn't it?

I agree with most of your post.

The entire TG quests are completely moronic, have absolutely zero logic, and look like they were random unworkable, moronic, cretinous ideas that no one wanted, thrown in a blender, then chucked randomly at the game.
They are the worst quests and trophies I ever saw in any game ever.
Characters and lines are so sentimentally written it makes your teeth hurt, while they say and do the most vile and disgusting things possible.
It's not funcitonal evil, or fun evil, it's not remotely game friendly. Evil in games should be fun or functional evil.

They don't even do their evil logically.
Are these people a thieves guild or a mafia? Make your mind up.
Since when did thieving involve money for menaces? Offering 'protection', that's mafia, crime gang behaviour. If they are thieves only, why are they behaving like mobsters for one out of place part of it? Since when did proving yourself to a thieves guild, involve beating people up? Would'nt it make more sense to have you steal something?!!


The Trinity quest, that takes the cake.

Every other deadric quest, it's your choice.
You serve them, or don't. Destroy the artifact if you want, it's your choice!

But not that one.
That it forces you to serve a daedra so stupid and lazy she can't find her own artifact, does'nt find people to get her artifact, shows absolutely zero gratitude for doing it, and gives you absolutely zero for it, in any way at all! That is the one of the worst things I ever saw in games.

She offers absolutely nothing, for far, far, too much.

Apparently Nocturnal fails to grasp what every other daedra does.
People do stuff for you, you help them.
And people serve you, if THEY choose to.
And after, you show gratitude.
And you let them keep your artifact, or give them something!

Every other daedra is grateful for your help or working for them.

It's all really, really moronic.

I dragged myself thorugh the hideous TG quests once for the trophy. And I will never, ever, ever, do them ever again!
I threw out every single piece of crap I got from it, into the wilds, were no one could find them and refused point blank to use any of it.

If I could I would destroy the entire TG, anything to do with them, and clean up rifton by force.

The Nightingale Armour. INMO, that is the ugliest, most unflattering, most ridiculous looking armour in the entire game.
It simultainiously makes you look flat chested, big headed, and have a big ass.

Man, I have to give a big thank you to everyone in this thread who are going: “Well, it’s your own fault for not loving crap writing. You should have just not started the quest that you had no idea beforehand would be devoid of common sense and quality.” for giving me a good laugh.
That has to be the dumbest reasoning I’ve read today and I’ve been going through safety regulations.

Yeah, the thieves guild quest line was one of the worst bits of writing in Skyrim. My favourite stupid bits of were that for one the Bethesda writers were constantly patting themselves on the back as they had characters calling really dumb and nonsensical plans “inspired” or “clever”. The other is that if I recall things right (it’s been a while, so I admit I may be misremembering it) during the thieves guild quest line there’s little to no actual thievery.

You're right.
There is little to no actual thievery in the questline. The only thievery done is by you in never ending radiant quests and Mercer Frey. There's none anywere else in it.

This is correct. The only thievery in the primary questline I can recall is stealing some documents from Glodenglow estate. I was already irritated with the Thieves Guild ending not being very "thiefy," but even worse, looking back on it the only thievery is from radiant quests. Absolutely astounding how a guild could have little to no theft in the primary questline and be labeled the "Thieves Guild."

None of the faction questlines require any kind of skill in their respective fields.

Even in Oblivion, the TG and DB were the only ones who required stealth and cunning to pull off half the heists/assassinations without eating an arrow. The mages and fighters guild required nothing.

Only swing a 2 handed warhammer? sweet. The MG could use a warrior to be the guild master. Only know how to shock/freeze/burn people alive and you wear no armor? awesome. The FG could use a mage to be the guild master.

Skyrim dumbed this down even more. in the DB questline, you can succesfully assassinate almost everyone by speaking to them first and provoking your target into attacking you. That completely circumvents any need for stealth, entirely. Since guards and citizens will defend you.

The TG literally has no need for stealth either. The entire organization operates like the mafia. There isn't even a penalty for killing anymore.

Obviously, you can be as stealthy as you want to be, for RP or whatever. But, it still feels kind of cheap when you know in the back of your head "yeah, I have to pretend there's consequences to justify using the sneak skill".

If the ultimate goal of any faction questline involves becoming Guildmaster--and in this case master of the TG, then there's a ton of thievery that must be done. You have to do at least 25 thieving jobs in 5 different cities. And there's 7 or 8 differnt kinds. Some aren't all that different from others but there are only so many ways to steal things.

The TG line is also the only guild in the game where you actually have to work a little to get the title (about 35 missions). And while I don't care at all about trophies some people do. And to get every single one you have to do 125 thieving jobs in order to get them.

It is somewhat disappointing that the major quests don't involve any really Big Jobs like the DB does. For example, in the DB you kill Whatshername at her wedding, poison the false emperor, and then kill the real emperor. That's big stuff. But the TG completely lacks any thieving jobs on that scale. So in that regard it is lacking and it's surprising Beth didn't come up with some. All the main quests of the TG are virtually indistinguishable from your average dungeon quest.

Don't like it, don't do it. You're not forced to join the Thieves Guild and you'd have to go pretty far up through a questline which, by definition, will be about thieves, criminals and thieving in order to get to that point anyway. The game wasn't designed especially for you, and if you can't hold a suspension of belief for long enough to play through the Thieves Guild, then don't. I for one much prefer this Thieves Guild to the Oblivion one which didn't really seem evil enough.

Why do people want this stupid, contrived, Robin Hood-esque cliche of a guild? It was SO bad in Oblivion. I couldn't help but just laugh at the whole silly image of the Guild in that game. "We're criminals, but only if our targets are rich! Being rich is evil! Even though that's what we're trying to become by stealing all this [censored] in the first place!"

I chose to play a thief because I want to be a criminal and steal things, not because I have some stupid, backwards-ass sense of honor by helping poor people or whatever. The Guild in Skyrim gave me that opportunity, and it was glorious. I felt like a true criminal, a true king of thieves. It also introduced me to an ancient group of Nightingales with badass armor and a cool premise whose offer I accepted. Now I'm the greatest thief in the land, with a daedra backing me up.

Little does she know she'll have to fight many other Daedra, as well as Akatosh, if she truly wants my soul.