The big finale of the thieves guild quest line is unacceptable because it goes against many strong core values that I have in real life. At this point it sort of ruins the Skyrim game for me. It brought the game to a crashing halt. When Karliah told me to agree to take the oath, I stopped and quit the game.

* The idea that I have to have my soul stuck in a cave for all of eternity just because of some crummy 3rd rate deity is awful. I mean really? Torment myself for all eternity just so I can help a guild which makes ordinary people's lives miserable? I'd rather spend my afterlife eating barbequed meat and drinking wine with the heroes in Sovngarde. That's far better than having my spirit stuck in a dank, dark, cold cave forever.

* Extortion, loan sharking, corruption, and such are things I really hate in real life. I didnt' want to be involved in supporting all that disgusting stuff. I just wanted to get some interesting quests that would improve my sneak skills. It would have been nice to have thief quests that were about stealing fabulous treasures from corrupt people and corrupt organizations, like they did in the Conan the Barbarian movies.

* I'm a very independent person in real life who absolutely can't stand being under anyone else's thumb. But you railroaded me into this quest line where I'm supposed to enslave myself to defending a 3rd rate goddess both in life and in death. NO. I won't do that. That is awful and unacceptable.

* In real life I believe in honesty, integrity, and doing the right thing. My philosophy is more in line with Mjoll the Lioness. I basically got involved with the thieves guild just to find out what the unusual gems were. Up until then I had avoided stealing anything at all.

* I would much rather have a quest line where I get to humiliate and kill Maven Black Briar, free Riften from corruption, and destroy the thieves guild. In real life I hate all the corruption in government. That's the kind of thing I'd like to destroy, not support! The thieves guild to a large extent is about undeservedly taking a cut of everyone's profits. In real life that's basically what the government does through taxation. I hate that.

You may say it's just a game, but as a player my enjoyment of the game depends on liking the kind of role I'm playing in the game's world. I don't enjoy playing a scumbag and I don't enjoy being stuck forever in a filthy cave after I die.

I will say that the Nightingale armor is the best looking, coolest, most beautiful armor in the game, so it svcks that the way to get it is to finish this awful quest. This armor is so cool looking that I could imagine an entire game being made around a character that wears it.

The choice is simple- don't complete the Theive's Guild questline. They're basically the Mafia with a "try not to kill anyone" rule. I mean... c'mon, they have their JOB TITLE in their name! If you want to be honorable, don't join them.

And besides, if you play your cards right (i.e. complete all non-radiant quests,) you'll cause one hell of a kerfuffle when you die. The Aedra and Daedra will end up fighting each other while they figure out WHO exactly own your soul. I think the count is... what? At least six or seven valid claims on your soul in skyrim?

You might enjoy joining the dark brotherhood. They're real sweethearts...............

(J/K)



Don't complete the thieve's guild quest.

Even better - start a new character and destroy the guild as best you can.

I agree. If you don't like the quests don't do them. As for the PC's soul, my bets are on Aka, because you're dragonborn; or Shezzar because you're a Shezzarine.

Also, OP insults my lady of darkness. I only point this out because they'd rather be with Shor, that horrid Talosian monstrosity! GLORY TO THE THALMOR! GLORY TO THE DRACOCHRYSTALIZED MUNDUSRAZING!

So thieves are morally questionable ... BOOO bethesda....
ROFLOL

I know I can be critical to defending bethesda.. but this is one of the most priceless attack posts I have seen so far, pure gold..
(irony people)

If your real life values are what you play based upon, then you shouldn't have joined the Thieves Guild in the first place - unless of course you're a thief in real life, in which case you should be in prison

They say that Skyrim has no consequences - BUT IT DOES. If you want to become the master thief and stop the bad guy, you need to have luck on your side. And the only way to get that luck is to make a pact with the Prince who controls it. Of COURSE you're not going to be the honorable and noble hero in the Thieves Guild. 'There is no honor among thieves', after all.

Maven Black-Briar is the only thing stopping the Thieves Guild from crumbling. Want to stop the corruption?

They're thieves. They want money, and will do anything to get that. If you think that thieves are law-abiding citizens, then think again.

Some of my characters despise the thieves guild, dark brotherhood and any daedric gods. But others mock the gods, relish in murdering and stealing and have no moral holdbacks.

It's not like your soul will be nocturnal's anyway, you're dragonborn.

You don't have to do the quest, how did you even get up to that point if your character has such objections to the thieves guild?

I think OP imagined some sort of Robin Hood quest line. It isnt far off really. I do agree however, I didnt like the swear your soul part either, I did think "I'm the dragonborn, why in oblivion would I give you my soul?" But I had also sworn to Sithis, Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon, so what the hell, I'm sure my race (first Bosmer then Breton and Nord) dictates more strongly where my soul will end up.

If I have learned anything from previous games and the novels, where in Oblivion you end up alive or dead, is not always where you stay.

Exactly. If you don't like the quest-line, or where the game is headed, then simply don't play. If you want to "imagine" a certain character in your mind, I have no problem with that. It's when you think that the game should start conforming to your ideals, is when there is a problem. If you don't like the way that Bethesda has made the game, become a big shot and make your own. I understand that you wish certain things were different, but they're not. Plus, how is swearing to Nocturnal any different to most of the Deadric shrine missions in Oblivion and Skyrim? They each make you swear to them. Hell, even the Dark Brotherhood makes you swear to the Night Mother and Sithis. You're telling me that you didn't do any of those or that you were so dedicated to those particular gods, that you swore never to swear to another god? Deadric gods are like fair weather gods really. There are no real repercussions to disobeying them, unless you are in their plains of Oblivion. What I'm saying is, this couldn't have been the first time you've sworn to a "god" in the game.

I specifically made a character back in November to start the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, then I read through the Prima Guidebook and scanned through what was on the UESP. I am amazed you made it to that point in the Thieves Guild before realising that he questline does not suit many people like yourself. I tried to justify it for RP, but I hate playing that type of a character too

Thank you! Don't be self aware all of the sudden when you are required to make an oath. You were a thief then, you are a thief now, but now, you don't want to take responsibility for it. You want to "look" like the good guy, but be the bad guy. Only the best can pull this off.

The real issue is, that there aren't really any counter questlines.

You can destroy the dark brotherhood, but the substance of that task is very shallow, you are rewarded far less, and can't even ensure its absolute destruction since at least two members will escape regardless.

You can't turn on the companions, and destroy/reform the entire guild to be non werewolves until you yourself have already been forced to become one.

You can't side with the Thalmor agent, and sabotage/take control of the college of Winterhold.

You can't destroy the thieves operation in Riften, you can't expose/oust Maven Blackbriar, and you can't tell Nocturnal to go get lost.

In other words, you can't be a bleeding heart thief and be successful at the same time....
Just like assassins for the Dark Brotherhood....
You must be a murdering/stealing machine to be in these factions.

I personally love the theives guild quest. I do see your point in being forced to pledge your soul to advance In the quest line though.

As others have said, if you don't like the idea of stealing and morally wrong actions, the theives guild probably wasn't the way to go
- I mean, the first quest is getting someone sent to jail, the second is shaking down shop keepers/threatening/vandalism.

It's not like they pretend they're all sweet and innocent

I do agree that you should be able to do certain things, but entirely destroying a faction is another story. You say that you want the option to destroy the remnants of the Dark Brotherhood. You can't destroy an idea. Even if you did kill the remaining two DB assassins, there would be people to restart the DB later. I do however totally agree with the Thalmor area. I believe that you should have the option to join any faction you so desire, including the Thalmor. Even just aiding them. Factions like the Thalmor and the Forsworn are impossible to join.

Killionaire, To fully enjoy this game at it's maximum you should leave your real life out of the picture. You know what they say about Vegas right? Everything happens in Vegas stays there. Same with Skyrim. Leave the RL out of your RP desire otherwise you will simply not enjoy this game. That is what Rping is all about. To act out on fantasy that you otherwise cannot do in the realworld.


I have to admit Bethesda severely svcks on the writing department. IRL I know a couple of kids under the age of 13 that can probably think of better storyline then what was provided to us in Skyrim, even know it's for advlts.

Think of it this way.. For every guild (with an exception of the mages guild) you join all comes with daedric worshiping or influences.

1. Companions (Hircine) Werewolves
2. DarkBrother Hood (The Night mother/Sthis) The listener
3. Thieves Guild (Nocturnal) Nightingale

For the Thieves guild it is to be expected to become a Nightingale and to give your soul to Nocturnal. I personally don't like it but it happens. Once you become a member of the theives guild you become a thief. For gold you go and steal other peoples hard earn items and forge signatures on log books. You start framing people for crimes that they didn't commit. You become a bad guy.

Karliah even says:"She's the mistress of night and darkness and the patron of every thief in Tamriel. Nocturnal isn't one for worship and reverence. There are no priests and no sermons, no services and no alms. She influences our luck and in return demands payment. [...] The only difference is she doesn't demand payment in the traditional sense and sometimes the cost can be quite high. Whether you know it or not, Nocturnal dictates how well we perform as rogues. [...] Haven't you ever noticed how our luck behaves? Like a novice picking an impossible lock or a blind man suddenly turning to face you as you reach for his pocket? It's through these subtle means that Nocturnal influences us. Nocturnal's whim is the greatest mystery to everyone. There have been volumes written on the subject. Does she exact payment when we die? When we suffer does she revel in our misery? No one knows. The return certainly seems worth the risk though." - Taken off of uesp

For Rping purpose you might want to stay away from the following guilds that I've listed above to prevent you from getting your soul tainted.

I wouldn't say that its impossible to kill an idea. All you really need to do, is ensure that the idea is remembered as a "bad one" that is not worth pursuing.

Ugh, couldn't even read that last post. (Edit: Not the last one, the previous one - formatting was a bit messed up.)

The REAL real issue here is that in Morrowind and Oblivion you weren't forced to become a thug in order to play a thief character. Yeah yeah, you don't have to join the guild, I get it. You don't have to do the questline. I get that too. But is there any other option for a thief?

At least the DB is straightforward - you know what you're getting into, and it IS all it's cracked up to be - endless murder. And as far as eliminating the DB, you most certainly can kill the idea - the sanctuary in Skyrim is the last known location of the DB, and when the character joins, they're not even following the five tenets and don't have any connection to the Night Mother. So the idea was dead already - without your character's help, they would just disappear.

To some extent, the game should offer more choices for RP styles.
We have the Theives, Mages, Assasins, and Warriors.
Instead of creating a complety different type of guild, there could be;

Theives that work like Robin Hood.

Assasins of a vigilante style.

Mages that focus on Necromancy ect. OR the Psijic Order.

Joining the Thalmor as a civil war quest line.

Warriors that focus on something else other than Lyconthrope.

A vampire coven.

Just a few more options, but branching from the 5 main factions.

This is a spoiler so read at your own risk


You know that most thieves aren't following the Robin Hood philosophy right?
Then don't do the questline. Nobody said you have to do everything.

So basically you don't steal unless it's something that you really want?

They're more of a mob than Robin Hoods in this game, which is something I really like about them. It'd be nice to take them out, but unfortunately that's impossible.

Then why would you be a thief if you don't enjoy being a "scumbag?"

You know that this is a just a video game, right?

I have a feeling this thread should be in the spoilers section.

Last time I checked it was.

Or you could just do the jobs for Delvin and Vex and ignore the TG main quest, if you want to be in the Guild but don't want to be a Nightingale. Just a thought.

Honestly i don t even understand. The OP all because he doesn t like how the questline ends he is quiting the game and calling this the worse game ever?

ROFLMAO