[Antony Holdsworth]

Really? How many of the Skyrim-equivalent of your "Crimson Wire" hi-res clothing mod could consoles handle before collapsing? And how much time would take for console users to continuously ask for low res versions?

Well, my mods are designed to add stuff to be used/worn by the main character only. I don't think that what I would do would be too high res or detailed for the console, and beside, my Crimson Wire is high res by Morrowind standards, not skyrim standards. I won't be making models more detailed than what will be in Skyrim, that's for sure, so I'm pretty sure that my mods won't slow down the console, if I am able to make my future mods available for console players.

I wasn't assuming that. I'm fully aware of that fact. What I say is that consoles lack by far of the manageability and power of the PC's, and both things are a burden for development. Even game devs themselves say that.

I'd say nearly every Oblivion mod user (even newbies) uses Oblivion Mod Manager. Or Wrye Bash. OBSE is even easier, as it's only "install-and-run". If people don't bother with them I'd say it's mostly because they wouldn't know they exist, not because "I know, but they're too difficult to use".

Well, if mods become available for consoles, I strongly think it will mostly be new content, as in new weapons and armors. If they are designed carefully, I honestly believe people wouldn't need mod manager tools, since these are relatively simple mods. It would only become a problem if Bethesda doesn't code Skyrim with that in mind. As I said, conflicts for simple mods were not really a problem for Morrowind, complex mods were more problematic.

And I do think so, because of what I've said. Graphically (models/textures) it's already guaranteed that mods MUST be dumbed down in order for consoles to move them. And technically, too (lack of future-proof and/or complex techniques). And also, don't forget that consoles only have 512 mb's of RAM, so forget mods that adds too much content at once, unless Skyrim engine is REALLY GOOD at memory management.

Sure high res overhauls like Qarl's packs wouldn't work on consoles, but if it's new content, and if it's spread out in different/new areas, it should work. For instance Shivering Isles does not slow down Oblivion (as far as I know), but it adds plenty of new content.

Hope this message clears it up

I hope I didn't sound too harsh, that really wasn't my intention. My English is not perfect, and it shows at times like that, sorry :/


edit: also I agree with nightcobra's last post. Freedom of choice (choosing to make mods for consoles) is better than no choice at all.

[Klaire]

Well, my mods are designed to add stuff to be used/worn by the main character only. I don't think that what I would do would be too high res or detailed for the console, and beside, my Crimson Wire is high res by Morrowind standards, not skyrim standards. I won't be making models more detailed than what will be in Skyrim, that's for sure, so I'm pretty sure that my mods won't slow down the console, if I am able to make my future mods available for console players.

That's why I said the "equivalent" (aka, a hi-res Skyrim clothing mod), and "how many" (a mod that adds hi-res clothes, a mesh replacer, etc, etc, etc, one on top of another...how many until the tower falls?). And your second statement is the bad sign I'm talking about. How many mods that are more detailed than the ones in Vanilla Skyrim will we see, then?

Well, if mods become available for consoles, I strongly think it will mostly be new content, as in new weapons and armors. If they are designed carefully, I honestly believe people wouldn't need mod manager tools, since these are relatively simple mods. It would only become a problem if Bethesda doesn't code Skyrim with that in mind. As I said, conflicts for simple mods were not really a problem for Morrowind, complex mods were more problematic.

And that precisely wouldn't make the modding community to "aim low", in order for their mods to run correctly on consoles?

Sure high res overhauls like Qarl's packs wouldn't work on consoles, but if it's new content, and if it's spread out in different/new areas, it should work. For instance Shivering Isles does not slow down Oblivion (as far as I know), but it adds plenty of new content.

It doesn't slow down because it's a completely new worldspace. Practically a game apart inside Oblivion. Now talk about Elsweyr: Deserts of Anequina, which adds an entire province inside Cyrodiil worldspace itself. Or Better Cities, which adds non particularly HD, but plenty of content and detail. Or Unique Landscapes, which do the same as BC at a even major scale. They slow down the game quite a bit, I guarantee it.

I hope I didn't sound too harsh, that really wasn't my intention. My English is not perfect, and it shows at times like that, sorry :/

Hope my statements either. English is not my first language neither.

[Queen]

Double the work, having to create the mod at first, then dumb it down, if not worse (to create the dumbed down version only).

As I said, and I repeat (not to appear like a selfish elitist), if it were for me I'd love for mods to be spread as much as they can. I'm not "jealous" of losing the "PC exclusivity", as I'll always be a PC user. But it REALLY would make me sad to lose hi-quality content due to console limitations, as it has happened with PC games dumbed down due to consoles.



And you'd be happy with that?



Possibilities which means more work for the modding community. Work that not all modders (understandably) are willing to do.

that is their choice and i respect either outcome. no one is forcing people to make mods, anything they do is basically icing on the cake.

if they don't want to make mods for consoles fine, if they want to make mods for consoles that's fine too.

[Baby K(:]

Well, if mods become available for consoles, I strongly think it will mostly be new content, as in new weapons and armors. If they are designed carefully, I honestly believe people wouldn't need mod manager tools, since these are relatively simple mods.

For the most part yes there wouldn't be need of any mod managing program "for the most part." is the key phrase though as even simple mods can conflict whether it be due to dirty edits or simply because they edit the same thing or place something in the same spot as another or interfering scripts etc etc. But again I have to agree if Bethesda were to create a foolproof system that could handle every problem that would remove alot of the difficulties I've been talking about. Unfortuneately it's doubtful on a large scale but for these types of simpler mods it's at the very least within the realm of possibility. Actually that would be great for PC modding too.

[Far'ed K.G.h.m]

That's why I said the "equivalent" (aka, a hi-res Skyrim clothing mod), and "how many" (a mod that adds hi-res clothes, a mesh replacer, etc, etc, etc, one on top of another...how many until the tower falls?). And your second statement is the bad sign I'm talking about. How many mods that are more detailed than the ones in Vanilla Skyrim will we see, then?

Well then console players will just have to use fewer mods, just like people with low end computers (like myself) will have to. I can't use MANY mods for oblivion because of that, and I don't think I am preventing these mods from being released in any way.

And that precisely wouldn't make the modding community to "aim low", in order for their mods to run correctly on consoles?

No it wouldn't? Honestly how would more careful coding and the necessity to make polished mods hurt modding? Making simple new content isn't aiming low, that's all I can do. And for mods that will have conflicts, well they just won't work on consoles. Again, I fail to see how that would hurt the community. Some mods would work for consoles as well as computers (mine sure could), others wouldn't. It's better for console players to have a few mods than none at all, and modders like myself love sharing their work with as many people as possible.

It doesn't slow down because it's a completely new worldspace. Practically a game apart inside Oblivion. Now talk about Elsweyr: Deserts of Anequina, which adds an entire province inside Cyrodiil worldspace itself. Or Better Cities, which adds non particularly HD, but plenty of content and detail. Or Unique Landscapes, which do the same as BC at a even major scale. They slow down the game quite a bit, I guarantee it.

Well then again, console players wouldn't use them. Simple as that.

Hope my statements either. English is not my first language neither.

It's cool to know people can disagree on these boards without getting bitter

[CYCO JO-NATE]

that is their choice and i respect either outcome. no one is forcing people to make mods, anything they do is basically icing on the cake.

if they don't want to make mods for consoles fine, if they want to make mods for consoles that's fine too.

Agreed I only see a win win situation. If a modder chooses to make a mod that can work on console and also pc that is their prerogative.

[neen]

If they do, the Mods'll have to be tested and stuff by Bethesda. Because, unlike PCs, there'll be some mods that just can't be ran by consoles.

[Chelsea Head]

Question: Can mods that allow the rearrangement of, say, furniture run on a current-generation Xbox or PlayStation?

[Janeth Valenzuela Castelo]

Question: Can mods that allow the rearrangement of, say, furniture run on a current-generation Xbox or PlayStation?

if it's furniture already existent in the vanilla game i'd say it's highly likely if what you want is to move already existing assets inside an already existing cell.

[Stacyia]

Question: Can mods that allow the rearrangement of, say, furniture run on a current-generation Xbox or PlayStation?

Sure, things like that don't add any extra load. Adding new furniture could be problematic, but moving existing stuff would be fine. The problem is that you can't support "a degree" of modding, the way it's set up means it's all or nothing.

[Tina Tupou]

Well then console players will just have to use fewer mods, just like people with low end computers (like myself) will have to. I can't use MANY mods for oblivion because of that, and I don't think I am preventing these mods from being released in any way.

That'd be good for retexturing mods or so. But what about a single mod that adds a lot of content? Any single Better Cities' city could knock down the 360/PS3 to it's knees. So the creators of those mods would have to add less detail in order to them to run on consoles, then dumbing them down. Or make them PC exclusive.

No it wouldn't? Honestly how would more careful coding and the necessity to make polished mods hurt modding? Making simple new content isn't aiming low, that's all I can do. And for mods that will have conflicts, well they just won't work on consoles. Again, I fail to see how that would hurt the community. Some mods would work for consoles as well as computers (mine sure could), others wouldn't. It's better for console players to have a few mods than none at all, and modders like myself love sharing their work with as many people as possible.

I hope that "more careful coding" makes miracles, then

The problem with that is when you've to choose either to release highly detailed content, or to make it more widespread. It's what happened with the infamous "consoles ports", and Crysis 2 is the perfect example of this. Ask any hardcoe PC gamer what he thinks of it and probably will burst into flames with idem.

Well then again, console players wouldn't use them. Simple as that.

And a chance of the community directly not developing them because they "wouldn't work on consoles" would also happen. Simple as that.

It's cool to know people can disagree on these boards without getting bitter

I'm too old for getting (too) bitter....and anyway, I only say what will be certain: that if mods are finally avaliable for consoles, it's almost guaranteed that the chance of epic / big / ultra-quality mods will be sadly and greatly diminished. Mark my words.

[amhain]

And a chance of the community directly not developing them because they "wouldn't work on consoles" would also happen. Simple as that.

My experience has been that many people mod for themselves first, and for everyone else second. If I want to make a mod for me, I wouldn't let the fact that if I'd share it I could only share it with the PC community stop me.

If people are modding for fame they're modding for the wrong reasons, IMO.

[Gwen]

If people are modding for fame...

Welcome to the Internet. Have a cake :cake:

[Andrea Pratt]

That'd be good for retexturing mods or so. But what about a single mod that adds a lot of content? Any single Better Cities' city could knock down the 360/PS3 to it's knees. So the creators of those mods would have to add less detail in order to them to run on consoles, then dumbing them down. Or make them PC exclusive.

With that line of reasoning these mods would have to be dumbed down for me to use them on my weak pc, but they're not. And, again, they don't have to make a console version at all if they don't feel so inclined. And this:

And a chance of the community directly not developing them because they "wouldn't work on consoles" would also happen. Simple as that.

... is just an assumption on your part. I don't see why modders would be forced to limit their mods for consoles if they really feel it would be a mistake. I really don't see it. It's better to have the choice to port mods to console than no choice at all, IMO.

I hope that "more careful coding" makes miracles, then

The problem with that is when you've to choose either to release highly detailed content, or to make it more widespread. It's what happened with the infamous "consoles ports", and Crysis 2 is the perfect example of this. Ask any hardcoe PC gamer what he thinks of it and probably will burst into flames with idem.

Do I detect some irony here? I am not talking about making coding miracles, just sensible coding on a particular problem with Oblivion modding. Again, conflicts for mods that add haircuts, armors and weapons were almost non existent in Morrowind, and that game was released in 2002, so it's certainly within the realm of possibilities, don't you agree?

I'm too old for getting (too) bitter....and anyway, I only say what will be certain: that if mods are finally avaliable for consoles, it's almost guaranteed that the chance of epic / big / ultra-quality mods will be sadly and greatly diminished. Mark my words.

Well that's just something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

[SWagg KId]

I wouldnt mark those words quite yet . There's no indication this is going to happen at all really. All that was said is that they would like to do it and that they were talking to MS about it. So there's nothing definitive yet.

Most of my posts have only taken into account the software/hardware side of things when there is more to this beyond that even that could make this difficult. All it would take to end it is MS/Sony saying no. Personally I just don't see Microsoft or Sony going for it in the end.

[xemmybx]

I wouldnt mark those words quite yet . There's no indication this is going to happen at all really. All that was said is that they would like to do it and that they were talking to MS about it. So there's nothing definitive yet.

Most of my posts have only taken into account the software/hardware side of things when there is more to this beyond that even that could make this difficult. All it would take to end it is MS/Sony saying no. Personally I just don't see Microsoft or Sony going for it in the end.

Oh yes, but that's an interesting debate nonetheless. I didn't think there would be so many people opposed to the idea, it's interesting to read other points of view.

[leigh stewart]

It's nice that Todd cares enough to actually say he would like to see the tool on consoles as well. Sadly, it's a little idealistic, but if he and Bethesda can pull it off, I'll be nothing more than happy and ecstatic.

[Hairul Hafis]

Disregard this post

[Kerri Lee]

I think to say that, even in a magical land of fairies where consoles could run mods acceptably, PC gaming would suffer because of this is ridiculous. I'm not a PC gamer because of mods, and I don't know many people who are, the advantages are legion, and moddability is one of those - a single game not being moddable is no more going to spell the death of the medium than a new generation of consoles. PC gaming has been dying for so long it's actually growing year-on-year, so either all of those PC game sales are Oblivion, or it's a perfectly happy platform.

Additionally, because modders aren't doing their thing for money, there's very little incentive to cut down their ideas to fit on a console. To say that console modding would spell the end of modifications is just as nonsensical as to say it will kill PC gaming.

Thank you, and yet there are hundreds here who believe other wise.

Agreed I only see a win win situation. If a modder chooses to make a mod that can work on console and also pc that is their prerogative.

I think we are on the same page, sorry for picking on you. I shouldn't have quoted you when there were 200 posts prior to yours i didn't care for the tone of either.

Watch out saying you're not against it and then saying it might not happen for some reason means you're a PC elitist who think they shouldnt be on consoles because it will diminish PC mods. Because logic doesn't apply in this thread. Just giving you a heads up.

Really? How mature. Earn credibility and then throw it away, nice.

[Kelsey Hall]

With that line of reasoning these mods would have to be dumbed down for me to use them on my weak pc, but they're not.

Because nobody knows which PC you have, while we all know what consoles are capable of. And still, PC-intensive mods are clearly marked in their readme's.

Do I detect some irony here? I am not talking about making coding miracles, just sensible coding on a particular problem with Oblivion modding. Again, conflicts for mods that add haircuts, armors and weapons were almost non existent in Morrowind, and that game was released in 2002, so it's certainly within the realm of possibilities, don't you agree?

I'm not talking about conflicts between mods, but their content. I agree sensible coding can reduce conflicts between mods, but it cannot make it run a tessellated model of thousands of polys into a Geforce 7 GPU (exaggeration, but you get my meaning). There's a limit of what sensible coding can achieve when compared to hardware limitations.

Oh yes, but that's an interesting debate nonetheless. I didn't think there would be so many people opposed to the idea, it's interesting to read other points of view.

I haven't read all posts, but I'd say that my thoughts are the major concern (dumbed down content, and eventually lack of hi-quality one). That unless they're hardcoe PC elitists (which I am, but not to the zealotry extent).

Well, time will tell...

So there's nothing definitive yet.

Luckily.

[Becky Palmer]

Really? How mature. Earn credibility and then throw it away, nice.

really svcks to get anyways of your own medicine doesn't it? Sorry your baseless posts left a sour taste in my mouth. I will edit it then and we can put it behind us (I expect the same from you). As for the tone i was entirely polite and patient but you continuously showed the opposite and accused me of things I never said or implied. Also there was no more than a page between our posts but regardless I'm glad you decided that I'm not what you were making me out to be.

Now that we are on the same page then how do you answer to the problems I listed back a few pages.

Edit: I hope that the reason you never continued our discussion even an hour later means you're asleep or not online. I would hate to think you're only arguement was against me rather than my proposed thoughts and you really were a troll the whole time. Hopefully you continue it in the next thread since this one will probably be closed. Peace.

[Anna Beattie]

Because nobody knows which PC you have, while we all know what consoles are capable of. And still, PC-intensive mods are clearly marked in their readme's.



I'm not talking about conflicts between mods, but their content. I agree sensible coding can reduce conflicts between mods, but it cannot make it run a tessellated model of thousands of polys into a Geforce 7 GPU (exaggeration, but you get my meaning). There's a limit of what sensible coding can achieve when compared to hardware limitations.



I haven't read all posts, but I'd say that my thoughts are the major concern (dumbed down content, and eventually lack of hi-quality one). That unless they're hardcoe PC elitists (which I am, but not to the zealotry extent).

Well, time will tell...



Luckily.

Benrahir, I think we won't be able to reach the same conclusion . I agree with you that console hardware is a limitation for the more resource intensive mods, I just don't agree that this limitation added to simple mods being made available on consoles would sign the death of complex mods, as you say only time will tell. Honestly, I still wish I'll be able to share my mods with more people, as they would probably work very well on consoles, but I suppose it's different for other modders.

[Kelly Osbourne Kelly]

@mandamus, well if it happens or not only time will tell but while i'm at it i'd like to make a mod request if you're interested

viking/norse god outfits, just putting the idea out there

[Tanika O'Connell]

I just thought of a way to get around needing things like obse to get some mods on consoles that wouldn't be possible otherwise. The answer is so simple that it makes me go herp derp.

Bethesda could just add more scripting funtionality natively or add more in updates. I don't know how hard or possible that would be but it would certainly bypass the need for it because mods that require a script extender doesn't mean it cant work on consoles because of performance but because of the third party nature of a script extender.

Of course there would be a skyrim script extended regardless because modders will think of new ideas to create but it opens a broader range of mods for the console users.

Pretty bad when I have to discredit my own previous thoughts but i digress lol

[k a t e]

No matter how much Todd Howard wants to bring mods to the consoles it won't ever happen, at least not for the 360. Microsoft will not let it happen, no matter what. I would bet money on it, a large amount of money, it is never going to happen.

Also as other people said, many of the best PC mods for Oblivion would bring the consoles to their knees and would never work on them because they are too weak. They would have to create a extremely gimped version of the creation kit just for the consoles.. and what PC gamer is going to spend their precious time making gimped silly mods for a platform they don't even play on? It's not happening.

It will not happen, period.