[Kerri Lee]

If Beth brought even onneeee little mod to the xbox I would love them forever

Silly PC players...hogging them all for themselves >.> <.<

[LittleMiss]

If Beth brought even onneeee little mod to the xbox I would love them forever

Silly PC players...hogging them all for themselves >.> <.<

Saying pc players in general are trying to hog it could be considered flaming so I'd edit that if I were you. We've had enough flaming for a lifetime in these threads and i dont want the topic locked due to immaturity and it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion.

[Natalie Taylor]

If Beth brought even onneeee little mod to the xbox I would love them forever

Silly PC players...hogging them all for themselves >.> <.<

...What?

How are PC players hogging everything for themselves? Blame Microsoft and their outdated policies and your 6 year old consoles for not being able play with mods, it has nothing at all to do with PC players wanting to keep the modding community exclusive to the PC.

There is a fair chance Sony would allow mods on the PS3 but even then as I said before, there would be sooooo many compatibility issues and the fact that the consoles wouldn't be able to run some of the best mods because they are too weak (Like better cities/environment/Living world and weather/world quality upgrades in Oblivion for example)

[Brandon Bernardi]

@mandamus, well if it happens or not only time will tell but while i'm at it i'd like to make a mod request if you're interested

viking/norse god outfits, just putting the idea out there

Haha, well first we'll have to see what outfits will be available in Skyrim when it's released, I suspect some of them might look like what you're after. After all, we wouldn't want outfits to be released that look just like what we already have But it sounds like a good idea. More outfits, and armors with fur (unlike most of the screenshots where you see armors that would let you freeze to death) would be great. I know I won't be making skimpy outfits, though, they would just be too out of place in an environment like Skyrim.

[Cat]

My experience has been that many people mod for themselves first, and for everyone else second. If I want to make a mod for me, I wouldn't let the fact that if I'd share it I could only share it with the PC community stop me.

If people are modding for fame they're modding for the wrong reasons, IMO.


Roger you experiences are well founded

Sadist King Posted Today, 05:37 AM


It's nice that Todd cares enough to actually say he would like to see the tool on consoles as well. Sadly, it's a little idealistic, but if he and Bethesda can pull it off, I'll be nothing more than happy and ecstatic.

of course he "cares" thats were the money is, Can those who play Skyrim for PC say the same? No.



and how the hell are PC users Hogging mods for themselves? Mods are a privilage not a right, and you gain that privilage by playing it on a PC, I love how Beth is 180ing on nearly every statement they've made .

Gstaff, on 24 January 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:


We like seeing the mods that are made by the community, but we have no plans to make them available as official releases.

Similar to Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3, the tools for Skyrim are PC only. There's no plans to release a version of the Creation Kit on consoles. If you're into modding, we suggest you go for the PC version.

I wish people would get this idiotic notion of division out their heads seriously.

[Euan]

There is a fair chance Sony would allow mods on the PS3 but even then as I said before, there would be sooooo many compatibility issues and the fact that the consoles wouldn't be able to run some of the best mods because they are too weak (Like better cities/environment/Living world and weather/world quality upgrades in Oblivion for example)

if both companies don't agree neither console would get them. They are aiming formequality on platforms.
Also performance is a non issue because you don't have to use big graphical enhancers or high poly meshes or anything that reduces performance. There's far more to mods than that.
Compatibility could be a major issue though.

[JESSE]

If Beth brought even onneeee little mod to the xbox I would love them forever

Silly PC players...hogging them all for themselves >.> <.<

Neither of those sentences makes sense. The first one because the reason we love mods so much is because it lets you tailor your game to you - releasing only one is just a free DLC. The second because we PC players have no say in what platforms mods are available for, even if it weren't a technical impossibility and political nightmare to get them working on console.

[Marcia Renton]

Roger you experiences are well founded

I quite disagree (not that his experiences arent well founded i mean reasons for modding). Who's to judge what a right or wrong reason to mod is?
If person wants there mod noticed why is that wrong? In fact I think it's a good thing to get noticed for your work if it's good. Maybe you want get a job for modeling and it looks pretty good if you can show them mods that thousands of people like and is high quality and they hire you.

Wasn't there a mod made called team fortress? Did they not get noticed because it was good and people knew about it? And look what happened valve hired them and turned their mod into a game which is quite popular.

If you should only mod for yourself then why share them to the extent they are?

[Sammygirl500]

Looks like the question is irrelevant, as it is going to be around 2014 before either Sony or Microsoft field new consoles. As neither can do it now....

Maybe for Elder Scrolls 6

[Arnold Wet]

I quite disagree (not that his experiences arent well founded i mean reasons for modding). Who's to judge what a right or wrong reason to mod is?
If person wants there mod noticed why is that wrong? In fact I think it's a good thing to get noticed for your work if it's good. Maybe you want get a job for modeling and it looks pretty good if you can show them mods that thousands of people like and is high quality and they hire you.

Wasn't there a mod made called team fortress? Did they not get noticed because it was good and people knew about it? And look what happened valve hired them and turned their mod into a game which is quite popular.

If you should only mod for yourself then why share them to the extent they are?

actually I agreed that Modders mod for themselves first, and everyone else second.

when we mod we are attaining our visions personified in the game, we strive to add what we feel is missing or would be nice, or even artistic expression, every mod made is evidence of personal taste and aspirations, the choice to share them lies entirely with the modders.

[Rude_Bitch_420]

actually I agreed that Modders mod for themselves first, and everyone else second.

when we mod we are attaining our visions personified in the game, we strive to add what we feel is missing or would be nice, or even artistic expression, every mod made is evidence of personal taste and aspirations, the choice to share them lies entirely with the modders.

Ok, I misinterpreted your post because of how I interpreted his statement but i guess this discussion isn't really relevant anyway. Not even sure why I posted it tbh, I need sleep lol

[Kate Murrell]

Because nobody knows which PC you have, while we all know what consoles are capable of. And still, PC-intensive mods are clearly marked in their readme's.

I'm not talking about conflicts between mods, but their content. I agree sensible coding can reduce conflicts between mods, but it cannot make it run a tessellated model of thousands of polys into a Geforce 7 GPU (exaggeration, but you get my meaning). There's a limit of what sensible coding can achieve when compared to hardware limitations.

What is this "coding" you are talking about?
And do we really know what consoles are capable of on a technical level? Sure lots of people can spit out any number of "specs" which they get from any number of web sites, but unless you actually work with the console in question, as in creating content for it, you really don't know what the console is capable of.

Current modders are not going to "dumb down" their mods just because consoles can take mods. That's absurd. First, I usually don't pretend to speak for anybody or everybody, but I am sure anyone who creates a mod, it starts with one playing the game, and at one point asking a question like "wouldn't it be cool if this was in the game"? And I can almost guarantee you, that even if consoles accept mods, most PC modders are not going to ask themselves "wouldn't it be cool if this was in the game, and would it work on a console?"


On a general comment on the OP subject:
There are a lot of misconceptions and misinformation being thrown around the thread as matters of fact, which they aren't. I've been here long enough to know who knows his/her stuff and who's just reciting things they read on other posts/internet, or merely throwing a statement out there because one thinks is correct.

Can consoles run mods? Yes. You can get Shivering Isles for Oblivion on xbox and PS3, so yes, consoles can run extensive mods.

Can consoles use 3rd party script extenders or mod order loaders? I don't know enough about console OSs to say for sure yes or no, and I don't think either MS or Sony put that info out there (talking source code here). However, neither are necessary to run mods. Sure script extenders are necessary for some mods, and order loaders may present a convenience for others, but they are not necessary for modding in general. I have made 100's of mods for Oblivion and Fallout, and I have never used either.

MS/Sony ok'ing mods notwithstanding, I iterate, the biggest issue is going to be the learning curve of mod creation and usage on consoles, especially if mods on consoles were not to work exactly the same as the work on PC. I doubt many current modders are going to start making console mods if a ) they don't work quite the same as PC mods and they have to test them on a console, and b ) the console limiting what they can do to mod the game (mostly lack of script extenders).

Just testing a console mod would be a pain. Any modder who has made a mod, especially a mod requiring scripting, will tell you how much of a pain in the butt it is to test and troubleshoot a mod: do something in the CS, save plug-in, start game, test mod, exit game; rinse and repeat as many times as required. Modding for a console: do something in the CS, transfer to console, start game, test mod, exit game; rinse and repeat as many times are required. Now, some may say that's not a big issue, but when you keep doing it over, and over, and over again, it is like the proverbial Chinese water torture.

[Baby K(:]

...What?

How are PC players hogging everything for themselves? Blame Microsoft and their outdated policies and your 6 year old consoles for not being able play with mods, it has nothing at all to do with PC players wanting to keep the modding community exclusive to the PC.

There is a fair chance Sony would allow mods on the PS3 but even then as I said before, there would be sooooo many compatibility issues and the fact that the consoles wouldn't be able to run some of the best mods because they are too weak (Like better cities/environment/Living world and weather/world quality upgrades in Oblivion for example)

I was jokinngggg

[Carlos Rojas]

Can consoles use 3rd party script extenders or mod order loaders? I don't know enough about console OSs to say for sure yes or no, and I don't think either MS or Sony put that info out there (talking source code here). However, neither are necessary to run mods. Sure script extenders are necessary for some mods, and order loaders may present a convenience for others, but they are not necessary for modding in general.

I don't think it was brought up as an issue whether a console OS could actually run a script extender nor do i claim to know if they could or not. The problem is more that MS and Sony are never going to allow a third party program to run on their console. Just look at how Sony crucified Geohotz for getting the ps3 to run third party content.
Load orders can be pretty crucial I think and sometimes changig the place of one mod can make the difference between working and CTDs.
I do however agree it's strange to think modders will have to dumb down their mods for console. Especially the mod better cities being cited as an example a page or two back. That mod and others in that scope routinely bring machines to their knees even with the most cut down version using patches. They never dumbed it down for lower end pcs why would they for a console?Because the choice lies with the modder. If they so choose to make their mod multiplatform then that's their choice. It doesnt stop anyone from making high calibre content that you couldn't dream of using on a console.

[Alexander Lee]

I don't think it was brought up as an issue whether a console OS could actually run a script extender nor do i claim to knownif they could or not. The problem is more that MS and Sony are never going to allow a third party program to run on their console. Just look at how Sony crucified Geohotz for getting the ps3 to run third party content.
Load orders can be pretty crucial I think and sometimes changig the place of one mod can make the difference between working and ctds.
I do however agree it's strange to think modders will have to dumb down their mods for console. Especially the mod better cities being cited as an example a page or two back. That mod and others in that scope routinely bring highend machines to their knees even with the most cut down version using patches. They never dumbed it down for lower end pcs why would they for a console?

in geohotz case, he was doing it without consent of sony in the first place breaking the terms of user agreement. i'd wager that a system specially made to be used for modding approved by sony like user generated content would have a lot less trouble to come to be.

[Connie Thomas]

in geohotz case, he was doing it without consent of sony in the first place breaking the terms of user agreement. i'd wager that a system specially made to be used for modding approved by sony like user generated content would have a lot less trouble to come to be.

Less trouble yes but my point was that they aren't exactly fond of the idea. A system for mods from BGS is a different idea than a third party script extender (which is neither approved nor endorsed by BGS let alone MS/sony) running freely on their system.

[RObert loVes MOmmy]

What is this "coding" you are talking about?
And do we really know what consoles are capable of on a technical level? Sure lots of people can spit out any number of "specs" which they get from any number of web sites, but unless you actually work with the console in question, as in creating content for it, you really don't know what the console is capable of.

...Yes. You can see some numbers, if you want, for how many polygons it can draw a second, how fast the shader clocks are, or how much RAM it has. That *is* what they're capable of on a technical level, there's no magic there. We know exactly what they can do, the trick is doing more with what you have, but there comes a point where you simply cannot do something. Especially with such a low level of RAM, in an already RAM hungry game, there's simply nothing left for detailed additions.

Anyway, I don't know anywhere near enough about the internals of a console to tell you whether a script extender would be possible, but I *can* tell you that they're built not to allow tampering like that, wheras most PC OS' are built to allow it. It simply doesn't have many applications in a games console that are valid, and too many that are malicious.

[Marcus Jordan]

It seems like people also forget that you don't actually need to introduce new models and textures in order to break the game or ruin performance. You can add too much stuff to a cell in the form of vanilla assets, or have complex or too many scripts, or of course have mods that are poorly made or conflict. Left unchecked, mods WILL break your console game... albeit most likely in a temporary way, not permanent... but it is possible to really ruin your game. A mod .esp can be released that points to new texture and model files or a central master file also which may not be included in the mod file itself. Computers can't read documentation, so how will the system filter those out as unusable mods? I mean, so many mods rely on a .esm master file in addition to the stock .esm, and this is something that the Construction Set doesn't nativley support.

What if the part of the mod that crashes your game or makes it unplayable is in a location you don't encounter for 15 hours of gameplay after you install it? You've installed a dozen mods, and you have no idea which one is wrong now. Having no utilities to debug it and fix your current save, you have no option but to go back 15 hours and uninstall every mod you have. That, or uselessly flood MS/Sony/BGS tech support with angry, unanswerable questions.

The difference between this scenario and a PC user running into similar encounters is comprised of two things. First, the PC user has more tools and freedom in their OS to be able to avoid problems and fix problems. Second, a PC user has to seek out the mods of their own accord on a third party hosting platform like Nexus. If MS/Sony offer the mods, users will not have the freedom of their OS to troubleshoot their mod issues, and they will be offered these in their corporate interface, branded with the company logo, right there just staring you in the face. MS/Sony open themselves up to risk, while having little to gain. To make them willing to allow this is going to require some form of control or another on the mods that end up on their system, and who is going to do that QA? No one. The only way would be to limit the CK from making mods for consoles that can break them in the first place. :brokencomputer:

[dell]

if both companies don't agree neither console would get them. They are aiming formequality on platforms.
Also performance is a non issue because you don't have to use big graphical enhancers or high poly meshes or anything that reduces performance. There's far more to mods than that.
Compatibility could be a major issue though.

I disagree. Valve for example asked Microsoft to let them install elements of Steam on the 360 so that Portal 2 players could play with PS3 and PC players.. Microsoft declined, so instead they just did it for Sony, now PS3 players and PC players of Portal 2 can play together but 360 is excluded. They aren't losing out on sales if they did it for PS3 and not 360.. The people with both consoles will buy it for PS3 and the people with only a 360 will still buy the 360 version.

And it has nothing to do with graphical enhancers or high poly meshes bro, it has to do with all sorts of additional scripting, coding, adding more stuff to the game world than the processors in the 360/PS3 can handle, etc.

[David John Hunter]

I can just see it now... Microsoft : "Introducing the new xbox 360 with extra processing power, made JUST for bethesda's games which is only a small section of the market!"

Can it happen? YES. It definitely can happen

Will it happen? As much of a chance as me going out right now and getting hit by a car.

I'm about to go down to the shop now so if I get hit by a car I'll let you know.

[Erin S]

What is this "coding" you are talking about?

I don't know It's something that Mandamus came up with. I think he refers either to the engine or the scripts.

Current modders are not going to "dumb down" their mods just because consoles can take mods.

They can (could) take SOME mods. But definitely not ALL mods.

Can consoles run mods? Yes. You can get Shivering Isles for Oblivion on xbox and PS3, so yes, consoles can run extensive mods.

As I said, SI is an expansion, not a mod. Think of it as a game whitin the game, with it's own worldspace and ignoring Tamriel almost completely. It's just normal it can run on consoles. In fact, DLC's are "closer" to mods than SI is. Now think of BIG DLC's, and here you have them.

[Rusty Billiot]

Thought I'd add my two cents here. I think it's funny that so many folks see no chance of this happening and saying Microsoft and Sony would be so against this idea. Sure, there are going to be hoops to jump through that don't exist for PC modders, but there's already a precedent for user developed content on consoles, the groundwork started back when the 360 and PS3 released; all the parties involved likely just need to agree on the hoops. Mods keep a game running years past its prime, that's something they can all take to the bank and that means it's going to happen sooner or later.

For example, back in 2006, Microsoft announced they were establishing the Creator's Club, a club for folks who (for a paid membership hoop) would have the development tools needed to bring user developed content to the XBox 360. From Microsoft Rep in 2006:



http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb976089.aspx

http://create.msdn.com/en-US/

Likewise, in 2007 Sony took their first tentative steps into user content with Epic Games to get the user made content made on the Unreal Editor piped to the PS3. Epic Games VP was quoted in 2007 discussing user content for T3:



http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/2238.html

To date, no, there is no perfect user content share system for consoles and I'm not saying that (don't misquote me troll, I see you over there), but user made content on consoles is coming, no debate really. Mods take a game with a one year shelf life and give it six, Six years of new players wanting to buy the game just for the extra content and we all know there's no end to console gamers asking for mods. In the end, it may cost modders dearly to get their content on a console, signing content agreements, paying memberships fees, toeing the line as it were, but maybe this means in the future, we'll also see some small financial kickback for our independent development like iPhone App devs. If Todd Howard says it's on the table at least, that should mean something in of itself. :foodndrink:

Just want to add a bit more to your post.

re: user-made content - on PS3 there's also LittleBigPlanet, Mod Nation Racers, and now InFamous 2 that all have a huge user-creation component to them.
- on 360 there's Banjo-Kazooie Nuts and Bolts that allows players to share their vehicle designs with each other.

re: mods on consoles - Portal 2 on PS3 allows day-and-date updates to the game like PC and Mac. Mods could be delivered this same way in theory.

[Scott]

and? what's stopping the modder from doing two versions of the same mod? or maybe he/she doesn't do it at all, or maybe his/her mods are only made with the the pc version in mind, maybe the reverse is also possible. there's all kind of possibilities and in none of them i see any where the pc community loses anything when it comes to mod quality.

I've tried to stay out of this thread without posting, but after reading this, i can't help it. You want modders to do two versions? Do you have any idwad how long it takes a modder to make one version? Some quest mods have taken 4 years to complete. Now you want them to do twice the work? I hope console users don't get a chance to use mods just because half of them have them no idea what it takes to make mods.

[Sabrina Schwarz]

I've tried to stay out of this thread without posting, but after reading this, i can't help it. You want modders to do two versions? Do you have any idwad how long it takes a modder to make one version? Some quest mods have taken 4 years to complete. Now you want them to do twice the work? I hope console users don't get a chance to use mods just because half of them have them no idea what it takes to make mods.

you misunderstand, i want the modders to do whatever they damn well please.

if that's 2 versions of the same mod, fine

if that's a pc exclusive mod, fine

if that's a console exclusive mod, fine

if it's nothing at all, that's also fine.

don't go twisting my words and assuming other things thank you very much.

[Karl harris]

I don't know It's something that Mandamus came up with. I think he refers either to the engine or the scripts.

I was refering to programming I don't know why I used that word, lol. Basically I meant that with clever programming they (bethesda) could limit conflict problems between mods.

edit: from wikipedia: "Computer programming (often shortened to programming or coding)", here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_programming