Bethesda wants to bring mods to consoles (Thread #4)

Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:29 am

Well computer users don't call people to fix their game breaking problem, they go on the internet and figure it out. Now M$ could simply say "We are sorry but we do not currently have technical support for Mods, If you notice there is a use at your own risk disclaimer" when someone calls about it.

Yeah but a PC user has nobody to call because i don't believe Bethesda provides it for mods (but googling is not going to help much if it is a conflict between two individual mods among thousands) but when you put something like this on a console MS/Sony have to maintain a standard of quality that mods would undoubtably infringe on when things get hairy. They aren't going to drop that standard and refuse tech support at the same time.

Also PC users have more tools available to find the problems (but that is null if the mod files themselves were crossplatform which I'm unsure of)
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Avril Churchill
 
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Post » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:20 pm

Someone in a previous thread mentioned that this would eliminate the need for DLC. I agree. DLC usually adds more content to the game, such as new areas and perks, raises the level cap, and extends the play time overall. Mods do just the same, which would drastically decrease the DLC sales, which is not ideal for Microsoft or Sony. So will it happen? My guess is no.
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John N
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:30 am

Same idea as modding a game like Borderlands...format a flashdrive, load your game save, plug into computer, use editing software to create mod, convert to xbox formatting, insert file into save game, plug flashdrive back into xbox, transfer save file. Bam 5 minutes and you're done. Its simple, it works, and it could be done. For all those out there i am both a pc and xbox gamer, this whole pc is better thing is bs, its all simply opinion. And considering this is the 4th thread for this it is obvious that it will turn into pc gamers :flamethrower: console gamers. The moderators should close this, its not gonna get solved and it'll just descend into another rant on who is better and who is stuck up etc



Haha... hahahaha.... You really have no clue how complex handling mods for gamesas games can be, do you?

There's load order. There's module conflicts. There's various ways of conflict resolution. There's archive invalidation. There's troubleshooting via the command line console (yeah, we don't just use it for cheats). All of those are done with unofficial applications or game functions in all likelihood unavailable to the console user.
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lucile
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:04 pm

Make it happen! Anything that helps get PC users off their perch can only be a good thing.



What are you talking about? Maybe for a casual gamer like yourself... And you should know the PC gamers are making the mods...

I would like consolers to be able to obtain mods on the consoles...
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Amy Smith
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:43 am

No. But not allowing their creations to be run on consoles (they're in their right to do so). Or making them non-console compatible / adapted (aka, dumbed down).

So, you better learn the rules of respect if you're to use mods. Just an advice.


Really? Rules of respect? The whole idea of modding is to bring more content to the masses not to discriminate on basis of pc or console. And it wouldn't be all that hard for a gamer to convert the pc mod to an xbox mod. Plus the xbox community will create its own mods. For you to act like your threat of withholding mods is anything influential is ridiculously hilarious. I laugh at you and your overblown sense of self importance my good sir, your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries :swear:
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Ilona Neumann
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:33 pm

Really? Rules of respect? The whole idea of modding is to bring more content to the masses not to discriminate on basis of pc or console. And it wouldn't be all that hard for a gamer to convert the pc mod to an xbox mod. Plus the xbox community will create its own mods. For you to act like your threat of withholding mods is anything influential is ridiculously hilarious. I laugh at you and your overblown sense of self importance my good sir, your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries :swear:


....and you're the perfect example of what I fear.

May the Gods help us if console users are allowed to use mods...
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Jonathan Montero
 
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Post » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:57 pm

....and you're the perfect example of what I fear.

May the Gods help us if console users are allowed to use mods...


LOL yeah, pretty much what I was thinking when I read that. "that's just what I want to see injected into the mod community .... not"
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:19 am

Really? Rules of respect? The whole idea of modding is to bring more content to the masses not to discriminate on basis of pc or console. And it wouldn't be all that hard for a gamer to convert the pc mod to an xbox mod. Plus the xbox community will create its own mods. For you to act like your threat of withholding mods is anything influential is ridiculously hilarious. I laugh at you and your overblown sense of self importance my good sir, your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries :swear:



Make console mods with what? I eagerly await your response because I already know what it will be and will be quickly shot down with the harsh facts of how the tools work.

Like I stated in the (a?) previous iteration of this discussion, the console is simplicity. Modding these games is NOT simplicity. By any stretch of the imagination. Thinking it is shows you truly know nothing about it and that you don't know that you don't know.

EDIT: Also, I concur with Benrahir.
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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:22 am

No. But not allowing their creations to be run on consoles (they're in their right to do so). Or making them non-console compatible / adapted (aka, dumbed down).

So, you better learn the rules of respect if you're to use mods. Just an advice.

From a purely pragmatic point of view, if mods work on consoles I'm not sure modders would be able to stop console players from installing specific mods. It would depend on the way mods would be installed on consoles: would they have to be downloaded from a dedicated platform? This would allow modders not to upload their mods for console users to download. Or would players be able to download them from sites like tesnexus? This would give more choice to console players, but modders wouldn't be able to decide who gets to download their mods.
Personally I think it's more likely that Sony and Microsoft would prefer that only mods downloaded from a specific platform (without advlt or otherwise controversial content) could be used on their consoles.
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Micah Judaeah
 
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Post » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:10 pm

Haha... hahahaha.... You really have no clue how complex handling mods for gamesas games can be, do you?

There's load order. There's module conflicts. There's various ways of conflict resolution. There's archive invalidation. There's troubleshooting via the command line console (yeah, we don't just use it for cheats). All of those are done with unofficial applications or game functions in all likelihood unavailable to the console user.


But that modding was done with unofficial tools. Beth is giving us their actual building tools, and i would hope that if they are to bring it to consoles they would allow such formatting. Believe me i have modded oblivion before, i know its not simple, but i personally believe that if bethesda gives us tools that are made for this purpose it could be accomplished without undo hassle. And as a pc gamer i know the console has uses other than cheating. All i am trying to say is that it can be done, and if so it should be included to the best of bethesda's ability to allow equal gaming, if pc gamers feel it'll be lower quality (which is in all likelihood true) than who cares? we will still be getting premium content on the pc while consoles get little mods
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LittleMiss
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:07 pm

An in-game editor would be impossible. Why? Because if you've ever modded a bethesda game, you know that it's a lot more than dragging and dropping. You have scripts, NPC attributes, packages, navmeshes and so much more.

Edit: I should add that even if console gamers have the most powerful computers, they still don't have the game content on those computers unless they buy it for PC too. Plus, there are scripts in the game that are slightly modified for each platform because each platform is slightly different.
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Rachel Tyson
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:17 am

Ignore me :)
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Grace Francis
 
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Post » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:24 pm

I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked yet.
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Crystal Birch
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:10 am

But that modding was done with unofficial tools. Beth is giving us their actual building tools, and i would hope that if they are to bring it to consoles they would allow such formatting. Believe me i have modded oblivion before, i know its not simple, but i personally believe that if bethesda gives us tools that are made for this purpose it could be accomplished without undo hassle. And as a pc gamer i know the console has uses other than cheating. All i am trying to say is that it can be done, and if so it should be included to the best of bethesda's ability to allow equal gaming, if pc gamers feel it'll be lower quality (which is in all likelihood true) than who cares? we will still be getting premium content on the pc while consoles get little mods



Ahh, exactly as I predicted. And now for the cold hard facts that I have to repeat ad nauseum every time console people think they can mod the game with their consoles...

The CS/GECK/CK is not some novelty level editor. It is the actual tool the developers used. It requires a mouse/keyboard interface, and more hardware capacity than a console can provide. The game engine is optimized to runt he game. The SDK is optimized to make the game; a task to which consoles are ill-suited.

And all those unofficial tools? They were made because the "official" tool set did not have the capabilities the mod community needed. The official loader does not have load order management. The official loader does not have conflict detection. The official loader cannot in any way help with conflict resolution.

My point stands unscathed.
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Emilie M
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:01 am

All i am trying to say is that it can be done, and if so it should be included to the best of bethesda's ability to allow equal gaming, if pc gamers feel it'll be lower quality (which is in all likelihood true) than who cares?


I do. A lot. I don't want to see the PC mod community "consolized" when the option to go buy a PC version of the game is already there and available for folks who want to use mods. If someone is that opposed to playing on the PC they obviously have other things they look for in a game that is more important to them than mods.
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jesse villaneda
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:20 am

From a purely pragmatic point of view, if mods work on consoles I'm not sure modders would be able to stop console players to install specific mods. It would depend on the way mods would be installed on consoles: would they have to be downloaded from a dedicated platform? This would allow modders not to upload their mods for console users to download. Or would players be able to download them from sites like tesnexus? This would give more choice to console players, but modders wouldn't be able to decide who gets to download their mods.
Personally I think it's more likely that Sony and Microsoft would prefer that only mods downloaded from a specific platform (without advlt or otherwise controversial content) could be used on their consoles.


I was thinking more of the mod community ethics. For example, I'm perfectly able to modify, redistribute/reupload and put my name into any of the mods avaliable. But I do not, because it's not ethical. And because many of them says in their Readme not to do so. Or to ask for permission. And as you've seen, there are already console users who care nothing about them. While those who do it on PC get somewhat "ostraticed", console owners will care nothing and do what they want.

So, we'll also have tons of "unofficial" mod ports, you'll see.

You're not exactly setting an example either .... Just sayin.


And you are?

It's not my intention of being (or setting) an example. I'm just giving my opinion. And I think I'm being pretty much respectful. For instance, I haven't mentioned the "parents" of any of the forum' members.

It's very easy to stay neutral, you know. Veeeery easy...
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SexyPimpAss
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:30 am

I was thinking more of the mod community ethics. For example, I'm perfectly able to modify, redistribute/reupload and put my name into any of the mods avaliable. But I do not, because it's not ethical. And because many of them says in their Readme not to do so. Or to ask for permission. And as you've seen, there are already console users who care nothing about them. While those who do it on PC get somewhat "ostraticed", console owners will care nothing and do what they want.

So, we'll also have tons of "unofficial" mod ports, you'll see.


Actually what you'll probably see is a lot of mod'ers either stop releasing mods or restrict themselves to private forums and sites, thus leading to an overall decline in the number of high quality mods available to everyone.
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Daramis McGee
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:15 am

I do. A lot. I don't want to see the PC mod community "consolized" when the option to go buy a PC version of the game is already there and available for folks who want to use mods. If someone is that opposed to playing on the PC they obviously have other things they look for in a game that is more important to them than mods.


Agreed 100%. Makes somewhat no sense to buy the game on console (wanting simplicity, which is not bad by itself), and still wanting for complexity (mods, tools, etc). What about buying a PC directly? They're not THAT expensive, nor hard to learn how to use them.

Actually what you'll probably see is a lot of mod'ers either stop releasing mods or restrict themselves to private forums and sites, thus leading to an overall decline in the number of high quality mods available to everyone.


Probably. If that has already happened without console users (the most sad case was Alienslof's one...oh, how I miss her mods), I prefer not to imagine the scene with them.
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Jessica Colville
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:19 am

Ahh, exactly as I predicted. And now for the cold hard facts that I have to repeat ad nauseum every time console people think they can mod the game with their consoles...

The CS/GECK/CK is not some novelty level editor. It is the actual tool the developers used. It requires a mouse/keyboard interface, and more hardware capacity than a console can provide. The game engine is optimized to runt he game. The SDK is optimized to make the game; a task to which consoles are ill-suited.

And all those unofficial tools? They were made because the "official" tool set did not have the capabilities the mod community needed. The official loader does not have load order management. The official loader does not have conflict detection. The official loader cannot in any way help with conflict resolution.

My point stands unscathed.

I agree with you in that I don't really see modding being done directly on consoles. Since you're talking about mod conflicts, I do however think that some of the mods developed on pc could be easily ported to consoles without having to worry too much about conflicts. New weapons, armors and haircuts could easily be ported to consoles. I do know that in Oblivion there are many conflicts between hair mods; these problems did not exist in Morrowind, which is why I think it should be possible for Skyrim programmers to overcome this difficulty. This way this kind of mods could be ported to consoles relatively easily.
What I mean is, modding on consoles seems unlikely, but porting some specific mods to consoles seems doable in my opinion. Personally I think it could be great.

I was thinking more of the mod community ethics. For example, I'm perfectly able to modify, redistribute/reupload and put my name into any of the mods avaliable. But I do not, because it's not ethical. And because many of them says in their Readme not to do so. Or to ask for permission. And as you've seen, there are already console users who care nothing about them. While those who do it on PC get somewhat "ostraticed", console owners will care nothing and do what they want.

So, we'll also have tons of "unofficial" mod ports, you'll see.

Oh, ok, I hadn't realized you were talking about ethics. This is an entirely different matter so I think I'll pass on that one :)
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sunny lovett
 
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Post » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:06 pm

And you are?

you know i was about to be like "wut? I never said I was" and then it dawned on me lol
Leave me alone I've been up for more than 24 hours :P
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Enny Labinjo
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:59 pm

I see a lot of problems with making mods work for console.

  • Software limitations
    If a mod screws up something, or you need to tweak a .ini file, you can't go into the game files and fix that. A lot of PC mods require 3rd party software, like scrips extenders and other plugins. Other tools, like mod managers are also essential to prevent conflicts when modding, these things don't work on a console.
    Some of these things can probably be made console-compatible, but if will require a lot of extra work and permissions from Sony and Microsoft.

  • Hardware limitations
    A lot of mods include high-poly meshes and/or high resolution textures that will cause performance issues on a console. Mods that add new statics and NPCs will also cause a performance hit.


The fact is that mods that add custom content of high graphical quality, or other visual additions to the game won't work well on consoles. Installing advanced mods (like FCOM...) won't work on consoles, and other third party software won't work if the creators don't get permission, and then put a lot of extra work in it to make it console compatible.

The most advanced or good looking mods will still be PC exclusive, since the console won't be able to run it.

Mods can screw up your game on the PC, and if Bethesda, Microsoft and Sony want to prevent these problems on the consoles I would propose a limited CK for consoles, and an incompatibility between the not so limited PC version CK's mod files.

As long as console modding doesn't affect my PC modding in any negative way I don't really give a [censored] about the consoles, but if console compatibility somehow messes up the CK for PC, then I and a lot of other PC users will be really pissed off.
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Marta Wolko
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:03 am

I dont think the hardware limitations are the real problem. The consoles could handle small mods, nothing too fancy, but getting all of the companies involved would be a pain. We all know that Microsoft would want to have it before Sony, and it just wouldn't end well. I could maybe see it happening in the next generation of consoles, but not for this one.
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john page
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:40 pm

Lol some guy way above me said pc's are not THAT expencsve. Compare a 300$ ps3 to a $2000 alien computer. And even if you buy pc's that are about or below $1000, they would most likely be unable to play this game, or have it played in very low settings. I'd buy a $300 ps3 wich can offer pretty good settings instead of a 600$ cheap pc with horrible settings. I'm just saying...
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Miss Hayley
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:36 am

And even if you buy pc's that are about or below $1000, they would most likely be unable to play this game, or have it played in very low settings.


This game (really any cross platform game made today) won't even come close to using the power of a $1,000 computer. It would be complete and utter overkill for a game designed to run on a 6 year old console.

The real problem is the hardware the game is made to run on you wouldn't even be able to buy today in a computer store it is so outdated.
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Mélida Brunet
 
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Post » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:13 pm

Lol some guy way above me said pc's are not THAT expencsve. Compare a 300$ ps3 to a $2000 alien computer. And even if you buy pc's that are about or below $1000, they would most likely be unable to play this game, or have it played in very low settings. I'd buy a $300 ps3 wich can offer pretty good settings instead of a 600$ cheap pc with horrible settings. I'm just saying...


I'm that "some other guy". And if you buy alien (I suppose you wanted to say Alienware), or Dell or whatever PC's, then you're very, VERY wrong. Not to say an ugly word.

It's not so difficult to learn, choose what parts to buy, where to buy them, and even mount the PC yourself (or get it mounted in the shop where they give you the best price & guarantees...you know, use a bit of your Mercantile skill...). Then that $600 cheap PC will turn into one capable of running everything without problems for years to come.

Don't you want "complexity"? Then begin with this.
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Jack Moves
 
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