Bethesda wants to bring Skyrim mods to Consoles : V - Skyrim

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:37 pm

Its not the same thing. Consoles aren't just low end PCs, but they have restrictive file exploration interface, security issues, and many other limitations. Just to get mods used on OB to run, there are at least half a dozen programs not written by BGS that you have to install and learn how to use that had to be created by benevolent third parties. The need for these programs was realized as people created mods, not before, so BGS, MS, and Sony can't develop a way for all that to be done ahead of time for the mods release... its something that evolves over time. The tools grow and are released with new capabilities as the mod community comes to need them and the programmers (doing the work out of the goodness of their hearts/because they want to) make them ad hoc as needs arise.

Its not because of hardware alone by any stretch that consoles have an inherent nature to limit a system of mods.

It's still the same idea though. Like low end PCs or PCs not equipped with these programs (I don't know which exactly, I've never used a mod that requires them to run) the consoles will just have to live with only using mods that they are capable of running. Doesn't mean those mods are incapable of being made on the PC.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:47 am

My only problem with mods on consoles is the community. The PC community is much more private and mature, and despite that we have quite a few [censored] who flame mods and modders, as well as a huge number of people who make life hard for us by not reading the documentation, asking the same questions, asking us to change the mod to accommodate their personal desires, etc. If the PC community only makes up 1/10th of the game, I hate to image how many immature mod users there will be in the other 9/10th.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:31 am

Even if consoles don't get a baby ck, PC's ck doesn't NEED to be limited. If it is capable of the best mods for PC, then it is capable of low end console mods. A lot of people play on both console and pc, so those are the people who would be making content specifically for consoles.

My point: There's no reason to assume pc's tools will be gimped. So, it should be unanimous.... MODS FOR CONSOLES! HOORAY!! :celebration:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:32 am

Think of it this way. Did they gimp the construction set in any way to accomodate the limitations of what low end PCs can and can not run?

Hmmmm, we know so little on how this would actually work I think im just coming up with potential and worst case scenarios here. Assuming the PC's CK is untouched for this to happen (all I care about) I would love mods to come to the consoles, cause them the whole console community would probably install the CK on their PC's just to make mods for themselves and in turn the PC users as well.

This could be a good move... As long as my one worry doesnt come true >,<

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:55 am

I got that for you.

Why does everyone assume that PC will be affected? Negatively changing the PC's mod experience is an awful move.... so, let's assume Bethesda will do that??

What if instead of dumbing down your ck, they had a dumbed down ck for consoles. So, you guys won't be involved in the process at all. So, just sit back enjoy your mods and cheer for us, who are finally getting some mini mods! :celebration: (Assuming this happens... which I highly doubt. Maybe for TES VI).

Whether the CK is dumbed down or not (which would certainly be another concern) the actual mods themselves would end up getting dumbed down. Even something simple as creating new armor and weapon, mod'ers would be limiting themselves and what they make so they can run on consoles. Not to mention more complicated mods.

It has been discussed several times already so I won't rehash it anymore than that.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:03 pm

If this were true, it would be awesome. Some PS3 games have this feature. For Skyrim to incorporate it would truly be a blessing. I don't think any developer for 360 has done it. If it were a PS3 only feature, I guess I'd have to get that version.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:01 am

No... just no. People with mod experience are saying that IF it could be done without limiting the freedom of what can be created GREAT! The problem is, that those of us who have used mods understand how they work, and see extreme likelihood that to make it possible for it to be on consoles, it would break the freedom and creativity possible in the system. Every console user who is saying that PC users should be willing to give up the freedom and goodness that is the state of modding today so that console users can have a pale shadow of it, and then saying that PC users are just selfish hogs are extreme hypocrites. You want US to give up the full goodness of mods so you can have a small taste. If we can both have the full taste, then I'm all for it, but if it diminishes it, then NO.

Hey bro, I heard making baseless assumptions was fun. Confirm/deny?
You have no evidence of what you speak. Who said that the modding community would diminish due to restrictions? The restrictions would be for the CONSOLE only. How would this effect the PC modding community whatsoever? You would obviously restrict what modders can do for console ports. But the only thing you have is ridiculous paranoia.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:31 am

Whether the CK is dumbed down or not (which would certainly be another concern) the actual mods themselves would end up getting dumbed down. Even something simple as creating new armor and weapon, mod'ers would be limiting themselves and what they make so they can run on consoles. Not to mention more complicated mods.

It has been discussed several times already so I won't rehash it anymore than that.

Do you think there will be a part of the EULA that makes it illegal for modders to develop mods that are to complex to run on consoles?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:57 am

Assuming the PC's CK is untouched for this to happen (all I care about) I would love mods to come to the consoles,
This could be a good move... As long as my one worry doesnt come true >,<

This would concern me a bit, if I were a pc user. I really hope/think they'd leave your kit untouched. I'd feel awful if consoles got mods, while pc mods lost all of that potential. That's not fair, regardless of the number of console players versus pc.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:24 am

Hmmmm, we know so little on how this would actually work I think im just coming up with potential and worst case scenarios here. Assuming the PC's CK is untouched for this to happen (all I care about) I would love mods to come to the consoles, cause them the whole console community would probably install the CK on their PC's just to make mods for themselves and in turn the PC users as well.

This could be a good move... As long as my one worry doesnt come true >,<

Can you run the creation kit on your computer without actually having the PC version of the game installed? I don't think you can. So community made mods would be dependent on people who own the PC version of the game.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:55 pm

I wouldn't mind it.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:33 pm

I find it hard to believe, and a bit silly, that a lot of people have something against this. It's almost as if PC users have this elitism attitude towards their mods that they can use. It's ridiculous.
Seriously, get over yourself. What do you, as a fan, have against letting console users enjoy mods too? Are console users "less" of a player than you? Do you think just because you have a gaming rig that can run high end games makes you "baller" or something? I mean, those are real questions, because I don't get it.
Last time I checked, and I checked recently, console users outweighed PC users as far as TES games goes by quite a large margin. :rolleyes:
The Few. The Proud. The ~~Marines~~ PC Users?

I know. Too many people on this forum have this attitude and its quite annoying.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:03 pm

Hey bro, I heard making baseless assumptions was fun. Confirm/deny?
You have no evidence of what you speak. Who said that the modding community would diminish due to restrictions? The restrictions would be for the CONSOLE only. How would this effect the PC modding community whatsoever? You would obviously restrict what modders can do for console ports. But the only thing you have is ridiculous paranoia.

Its not a baseless assumption whatsoever. If you knew what actually went into mods for the prior installments, maybe you'd understand a bit better. Mods for TES games are not only built on the Construction Set/Creation Kit. Some games that have mods have a fully integrated way for you to make things like "user created maps" and stuff... but TES mods go way beyond that to all but creating a whole new engine that runs alongside the base engine released by the devs. The programming mechanisms that run my OB only very loosely resemble what BGS released by the time all the mods are running.

I see a very easy line of logic, far far from baseless, that if Microsoft gets involved in having consoles have mods, that they are going to INSIST that quality assurance controls for the mods that get made are put in place to ensure that things don't break people's games. Since there is no way that all the mods that are made can actually be manually quality controlled, the solution would be to make it so that the mods are incapable of being made in such a way that they can break the game. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it really isn't that hard of a line of logic to follow. You seriously may not be aware just how much besides the mod files themselves you have to install on your PC to make most mods work...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:28 am

Every console user who is saying that PC users should be willing to give up the freedom and goodness that is the state of modding today so that console users can have a pale shadow of it, and then saying that PC users are just selfish hogs are extreme hypocrites. You want US to give up the full goodness of mods so you can have a small taste.

Think that needs to be said again. If someone wants mods so badly go out and buy the PC version. That option already exists for you. Let's not "consolize" the mod'ing community.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:53 am

I find it awesome! I'll be playing it on PC for sure, and I'll be kind of bummed that so much attention is being given to consoles at detriment of PCs, but hey, that's reality. If I'm not getting something compatible with my hardware, then at least SOMEONE should be getting the extra mile.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:59 am

I guess I'm a little ignorant on the issue because I'm a 360 player and don't make mods. But it Todd Says the creation engine works on 360 too. I think the only problem is getting microsoft to allow it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:53 am

This would concern me a bit, if I were a pc user. I really hope/think they'd leave your kit untouched. I'd feel awful if consoles got mods, while pc mods lost all of that potential. That's not fair, regardless of the number of console players versus pc.

I too hope both consoles and PC gamers alike can have and eat our cake

Can you run the creation kit on your computer without actually having the PC version of the game installed? I don't think you can. So community made mods would be dependent on people who own the PC version of the game.

No, cause you need the game files, but it would be incentive to buy both versions of the game, cause you dont need a $700 pc to run the CS for Oblivion. Or maybe they could find a way around this.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:16 am

Its not a baseless assumption whatsoever. If you knew what actually went into mods for the prior installments, maybe you'd understand a bit better. Mods for TES games are not only built on the Construction Set/Creation Kit. Some games that have mods have a fully integrated way for you to make things like "user created maps" and stuff... but TES mods go way beyond that to all but creating a whole new engine that runs alongside the base engine released by the devs. The programming mechanisms that run my OB only very loosely resemble what BGS released by the time all the mods are running.

I see a very easy line of logic, far far from baseless, that if Microsoft gets involved in having consoles have mods, that they are going to INSIST that quality assurance controls for the mods that get made are put in place to ensure that things don't break people's games. Since there is no way that all the mods that are made can actually be manually quality controlled, the solution would be to make it so that the mods are incapable of being made in such a way that they can break the game. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it really isn't that hard of a line of logic to follow. You seriously may not be aware just how much besides the mod files themselves you have to install on your PC to make most mods work...

Lol.
It's funny that you are assuming I don't know anything about making mods. I have modded extensively over the past 8 years for Morrowind and Oblivion. :goodjob:
I know exactly what goes into modding, and I am quite aware that having limitations for the console has nothing to do with your PC kit. They wouldn't limit PC mods. Just console mods.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:34 am

I find it hard to believe, and a bit silly, that a lot of people have something against this. It's almost as if PC users have this elitism attitude towards their mods that they can use. It's ridiculous.
Seriously, get over yourself. What do you, as a fan, have against letting console users enjoy mods too? Are console users "less" of a player than you? Do you think just because you have a gaming rig that can run high end games makes you "baller" or something? I mean, those are real questions, because I don't get it.
Last time I checked, and I checked recently, console users outweighed PC users as far as TES games goes by quite a large margin. :rolleyes:
The Few. The Proud. The ~~Marines~~ PC Users?

Amen to that.They are quite pathetic I know.Selfish people will always find ways to be negative when they find out they have to share something.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:49 pm

if they bring mods to consoles i'll be sooo happy :tes:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:46 am

Its not a baseless assumption whatsoever. If you knew what actually went into mods for the prior installments, maybe you'd understand a bit better. Mods for TES games are not only built on the Construction Set/Creation Kit. Some games that have mods have a fully integrated way for you to make things like "user created maps" and stuff... but TES mods go way beyond that to all but creating a whole new engine that runs alongside the base engine released by the devs. The programming mechanisms that run my OB only very loosely resemble what BGS released by the time all the mods are running.

I see a very easy line of logic, far far from baseless, that if Microsoft gets involved in having consoles have mods, that they are going to INSIST that quality assurance controls for the mods that get made are put in place to ensure that things don't break people's games. Since there is no way that all the mods that are made can actually be manually quality controlled, the solution would be to make it so that the mods are incapable of being made in such a way that they can break the game. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it really isn't that hard of a line of logic to follow. You seriously may not be aware just how much besides the mod files themselves you have to install on your PC to make most mods work...

Can't you make a mod on the PC that will break the game (or at least an individual save if you save with it on, but then you can start a new one without the mod active anyway)? And hell, even in Vanilla Oblivion, you can get stuck somewhere and save and your game is broken. So what's the difference? Mods are something you have to think about before adding them to the game and using them. And if mods are completely incompatible, they might cause your game to crash or something, so what? Restart the console, deselect the mod and run the game again, living without it.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:08 pm

Lol.
It's funny that you are assuming I don't know anything about making mods. I have modded extensively over the past 8 years for Morrowind and Oblivion. :goodjob:
I know exactly what goes into modding, and I am quite aware that having limitations for the console has nothing to do with your PC kit. They wouldn't limit PC mods. Just console mods.

So do you really think that Microsoft would be willing to allow something like OBSE on their console? Something with user made dlls and executables separate to the game the circumvent the base loading proceedure? Almost every mod made that does anything worth a dam since OBSE was invented use OBSE... what about Wrye Bash... if they don't allow that, how will you get the changes to all take place from various mods all together? Will they go back to allowing that natively? It wasn't stable before... maybe they could get it to be...

So, if they don't limit what modders can do, then the vast majority of mods WILL break the console version if people download them. Who is going to QC if they will break them or not if they are distrubuted freely? Give me a break. So, the only way they could ensure that nothing released through their database would break anything is to not allow anything to be created that could break it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:19 am

It could work like this (assuming M/Soft and Sony ever agreed to it)

-Mods are made on PC
-gamesas selects a small number of the mods to make available for d/l to console, subject to numerous criteria about content/quality and probably restricted to assets available in the construction set.
-Console users pay as small sum to acquire each of the approved mods.
-Beth gifts all the revenue from user made mods to charity.

Everyone wins this way. Mod makers have an incentive (over and above the joy of modding and releasing), mod purchasers feel good about it, gamesas gets kudos for it's charitable work.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:03 am

Think that needs to be said again. If someone wants mods so badly go out and buy the PC version. That option already exists for you. Let's not "consolize" the mod'ing community.

No-one is suggesting that you do, I think if this were to happen Bethesda would regulate mods that were for consoles and release them long after they were popular on the pc, not one person is suggesting that we should decrease the quality of mods for us console users but find a way to port them to console after release, if it where to happen at all (no matter how unlikely that is) it would have to be post- the mods' release on pc.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:03 am

Can't you make a mod on the PC that will break the game (or at least an individual save if you save with it on, but then you can start a new one without the mod active anyway)? And hell, even in Vanilla Oblivion, you can get stuck somewhere and save and your game is broken. So what's the difference? Mods are something you have to think about before adding them to the game and using them. And if mods are completely incompatible, they might cause your game to crash or something, so what? Restart the console, deselect the mod and run the game again, living without it.

Except this mod overwrote one of the models from another mod, and one of the textures from a different mod, and overwrote a .esp to provide compatibility - the second mod was already a texture replacer, but it also uses a .esp to make other changes. What do you do when you deselect a mod? How do you manage this? What if you wanted to remove the second mod, not the mod you just added? How about if the real reason this new mod is incompatible is because it's overwriting a levelled list, something a tool like Wrye Bash could fix?

It's not a straightforward, or simple system. "Deselect the mod" has a hell of a lot of baggage. It works on PC because we can manage it however the hell we like, but with no filesystem access, limited storage, and highly limited resources, that's almost never going to happen. A tool like Wrye Bash, for example, can take up colossal amounts of RAM when it's in the middle of doing its thing.