Bethesda wants to bring Skyrim mods to Consoles : V - Skyrim

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:44 pm

So do you really think that Microsoft would be willing to allow something like OBSE on their console? Something with user made dlls and executables separate to the game the circumvent the base loading proceedure? Almost every mod made that does anything worth a dam since OBSE was invented use OBSE... what about Wrye Bash... if they don't allow that, how will you get the changes to all take place from various mods all together? Will they go back to allowing that natively? It wasn't stable before... maybe they could get it to be...

So, if they don't limit what modders can do, then the vast majority of mods WILL break the console version if people download them. Who is going to QC if they will break them or not if they are distrubuted freely? Give me a break. So, the only way they could ensure that nothing released through their database would break anything is to not allow anything to be created that could break it.

I have downloaded about 30 or so mods and so far none of them have required anything but placing them in the data folder. And what exactly do you mean by break here? Because I'm pretty sure mods can not permanently "break" the game.

Hell, maybe they could even run a check to make sure it is compatible, or if that is imposssible, just have a "console compatible" checkbox for modders to fill in on sites you can get them from.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:28 am

Except this mod overwrote one of the models from another mod, and one of the textures from a different mod, and overwrote a .esp to provide compatibility - the second mod was already a texture replacer, but it also uses a .esp to make other changes. What do you do when you deselect a mod? How do you manage this? What if you wanted to remove the second mod, not the mod you just added? How about if the real reason this new mod is incompatible is because it's overwriting a levelled list, something a tool like Wrye Bash could fix?

It's not a straightforward, or simple system. "Deselect the mod" has a hell of a lot of baggage. It works on PC because we can manage it however the hell we like, but with no filesystem access, limited storage, and highly limited resources, that's almost never going to happen. A tool like Wrye Bash, for example, can take up colossal amounts of RAM when it's in the middle of doing its thing.

Hm, okay, fair enough, I've never encountered this issue so far.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:20 am

It could work like this (assuming M/Soft and Sony ever agreed to it)

-Mods are made on PC
-gamesas selects a small number of the mods to make available for d/l to console, subject to numerous criteria about content/quality and probably restricted to assets available in the construction set.
-Console users pay as small sum to acquire each of the approved mods.
-Beth gifts all the revenue from user made mods to charity.

Everyone wins this way. Mod makers have an incentive (over and above the joy of modding and releasing), mod purchasers feel good about it, gamesas gets kudos for it's charitable work.

Except if you dont go the path were users can upload their mods freely and put Bethesda in charge of what mods are put up for download, to what end does this go? This will severely limit how many mods the console users get (3 years down the road will they still be uploading our mods? Will it be worth the trouble and cost it took to bring mods to the consoles in the first place?). But at the same time, it does prevent any mods from breaking games and upsetting Microsoft and users with now broken saves.

Except this mod overwrote one of the models from another mod, and one of the textures from a different mod, and overwrote a .esp to provide compatibility - the second mod was already a texture replacer, but it also uses a .esp to make other changes. What do you do when you deselect a mod? How do you manage this? What if you wanted to remove the second mod, not the mod you just added? How about if the real reason this new mod is incompatible is because it's overwriting a levelled list, something a tool like Wrye Bash could fix?

It's not a straightforward, or simple system. "Deselect the mod" has a hell of a lot of baggage. It works on PC because we can manage it however the hell we like, but with no filesystem access, limited storage, and highly limited resources, that's almost never going to happen. A tool like Wrye Bash, for example, can take up colossal amounts of RAM when it's in the middle of doing its thing.

This is a good point to make, which makes me think that Bethesda would be the ones to upload the select few mods we make.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:44 am

Except if you dont go the path were users can upload their mods freely and put Bethesda in charge of what mods are put up for download, to what end does this go? This will severely limit how many mods the console users get (3 years down the road will they still be uploading our mods? Will it be worth the trouble and cost it took to bring mods to the consoles in the first place?). But at the same time, it does prevent any mods from breaking games and upsetting Microsoft and users with now broken saves.

Maybe up until the next TES installement is out? And maybe so that the people get to choose what mods come to consoles user can vote in a monthly poll to decide which x number of mods come to console and what they are ?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:03 am

The level of Ignorance on this thread is crippling.

Yes Todd says the creation engine runs on 360, DUH when you are playing the Skyrim, your running the engine, not the Kit.

Oh I don't have to buy a 700 dollar PC now, I can just mod the CS and then port them to the console

Lol no don't you need to RUN the game to see whats what? yeah that 700$ pc (which is crap, a sixy destop that can run circles around most games even cost 500, when 360 was first release people where buying the damn thing for 400$ it only recently dropped 250, if you can muster up 250, wait a little more and get a PC.

PC users are elitist and don't want to share, they are keeping us down

pffft trust me I wish I had the ability to "keep you down", with all the apparent assloads of money a PC costs so says so many people I earned the right to dance a prance in the Game and reap or suffer the consequences, Consoles are for ease of access pure and simple. and I like how people who are purely on console presume to know more about modding and how the game works more the PC users who actively MOD the game, seriously? no modder is talking out their ass, we know what we are talking about.

Modding makes deep and sweeping compromises in a game and its mediums system, 3rd party programs, extensions, script alterations. you think Sony and Microsoft is going to leave such power in the hands of people? Did you see how hard they floored that hacker when he dipped in how PS3 and changed how it worked? not to mention the need to bypass the security on the consoles.

Ha...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:01 am

So do you really think that Microsoft would be willing to allow something like OBSE on their console? Something with user made dlls and executables separate to the game the circumvent the base loading proceedure? Almost every mod made that does anything worth a dam since OBSE was invented use OBSE... what about Wrye Bash... if they don't allow that, how will you get the changes to all take place from various mods all together? Will they go back to allowing that natively? It wasn't stable before... maybe they could get it to be...

So, if they don't limit what modders can do, then the vast majority of mods WILL break the console version if people download them. Who is going to QC if they will break them or not if they are distrubuted freely? Give me a break. So, the only way they could ensure that nothing released through their database would break anything is to not allow anything to be created that could break it.

Just like Dragonbone said, you can make mods that break the PC also.
Microsoft wont let just "anything" be ported to the console. But, last time I checked, this is still in the theorycrafting phase. Nothing is set in stone. Hell, this probably wont even happen.
But who's to say that the mods that would be converted to the console wouldn't be simply the top highest rated mods, the best mods, that Bethesda could look at and go, "hey, this is really good, thousands of people enjoy this mod, lets make it playable on the console" or something like that?
You're looking at this entire process from a linear standpoint. Even if that's NOT how it happens, console mods have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PC KIT. There would be limitations, but, if there are limitations, why are you assuming that it would effect the PC kit? That makes no logical sense. Microsoft would have something to say about the console, but they have no control in that way over the PC kit.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:22 am

If Microsoft doesnt allow this and Sony does,f**k it,I'm going to buy Ps3 then.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:49 pm

It could work like this (assuming M/Soft and Sony ever agreed to it)

-Mods are made on PC
-gamesas selects a small number of the mods to make available for d/l to console, subject to numerous criteria about content/quality and probably restricted to assets available in the construction set.
-Console users pay as small sum to acquire each of the approved mods.
-Beth gifts all the revenue from user made mods to charity.

Everyone wins this way. Mod makers have an incentive (over and above the joy of modding and releasing), mod purchasers feel good about it, gamesas gets kudos for it's charitable work.

I'm pretty sure that console DLC is not free for them to distribute... This would seem to me that they they would have to pay their Q&A staff to test it; possibly pay development staff to fix issues with it (if they were bothering to ~as opposed to just dropping it from acceptance), and they would then have to pay the console manufactures their fees ~then donate all proceeds to charity?
(They would also have to pay bandwidth charges for downloads too right? Or pay someone else a percentage or fee to host?)

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:26 pm

That would be freaking awesome

THIS^ Omg, I would love to see mods introduced to the 360, if its possible. I don't like playing TES on PC, and I haven't been able to enjoy the mods because of it. I've been thinking about switching to PC for mods, but I would still prefer to use the 360. If they found a way to make it work, I'd be thrilled. ^_^

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:57 am

I have downloaded about 30 or so mods and so far none of them have required anything but placing them in the data folder. And what exactly do you mean by break here? Because I'm pretty sure mods can not permanently "break" the game.

Hell, maybe they could even run a check to make sure it is compatible, or if that is imposssible, just have a "console compatible" checkbox for modders to fill in on sites you can get them from.

Mods can become so complex and have so many modular components that it can "permanently" break the game. Uninstalling and fixing what went wrong can sometimes be harder than uninstalling the whole thing and starting over in some cases. Without freely having access to the OS like you do on a PC, anything even close to this would be a nightmare. And, no derogatory comments seriously though, though some console gamers might be dedicated players and get really into it, it seems like a very reasonable assumption that many more console gamers aren't only playing on the console for the sake of it being cheaper than a PC, but because of the convenience and the fact that you typically CAN'T break the game because of the quality assurance checks.

MS/Sony will have lots of angry letters to their tech support whether or not there is a disclaimer stating that the mods are user made and your mileage may vary. It doesn't matter... because its on the console provided by MS/Sony, many people will expect that what is offered to them in the menus will WORK at ALL TIMES. Again, who the hell is going to QC all the mods that come out and determine which ones are ok, and then EDIT them to fix the possible bugs, check for compatibility for all the other mods that were released before, and do it all for FREE only charging you for the download service, but not the work that goes into making a perfect release. No one is going to do that.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:26 pm

If consoles every get any user-generated content from the creation kit (very unlikely), it will be severely limited and likely cost money.

So USERS create the content for free and BGS and/or MS/SONY profit, no Fn way?

Another thing:

Modding is done mostly if not exclusively by other PC players, not console players.
So now PC players is suppose to help with mods for consoles? In other words helping to diminish PC as a platform, since part of the reason and the specialty of PC is that we get MODS.

This rubs me the wrong way and I am starting to get pissed off with BGS, all they talk about is consoles:

1. Looks like we won't have DX11, cause Todd want PC to look like consoles and NOT look any better.
2. Now he wants PC players to supply mods for console players.
3. He or another BGS employee made a statement that 90% of the buyers are console players, which I say is a load of crap.
PC accounts for more than that, hell even COD with is console heaven accounts for 15% of their user base.

Last Elderscroll game that came out was in 2006 for PC and 360/PS3, does he really believe that PC only made up 10%?
That to me sounds really bad, tossing out random stats that doesn't even make sense.

Just makes it all look like they are out of touch with PC and really don't care.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:57 am

Mods can become so complex and have so many modular components that it can "permanently" break the game. Uninstalling and fixing what went wrong can sometimes be harder than uninstalling the whole thing and starting over in some cases. Without freely having access to the OS like you do on a PC, anything even close to this would be a nightmare. And, no derogatory comments seriously though, though some console gamers might be dedicated players and get really into it, it seems like a very reasonable assumption that many more console gamers aren't only playing on the console for the sake of it being cheaper than a PC, but because of the convenience and the fact that you typically CAN'T break the game because of the quality assurance checks.

MS/Sony will have lots of angry letters to their tech support whether or not there is a disclaimer stating that the mods are user made and your mileage may vary. It doesn't matter... because its on the console provided by MS/Sony, many people will expect that what is offered to them in the menus will WORK at ALL TIMES. Again, who the hell is going to QC all the mods that come out and determine which ones are ok, and then EDIT them to fix the possible bugs, check for compatibility for all the other mods that were released before, and do it all for FREE only charging you for the download service, but not the work that goes into making a perfect release. No one is going to do that.

I'm sorry but now you're just arguing semantics, extremes, and a minority of mods. Most mods aren't these super complex enigma mods that break games and cause blue screens and bake pizzas and dissect atoms at the same time. :rolleyes:
Also, I'm pretty sure those aren't the types of mods that Bethesda is considering allowing console use over. Probably smaller mods. Mods that don't break the game. Mods that don't cause blue screens. And mods that don't bake pizzas and dissect atoms. Things like..DLC. Things that added..horse armor. New quest. Etc. Nothing insane.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:13 am

Can't you make a mod on the PC that will break the game (or at least an individual save if you save with it on, but then you can start a new one without the mod active anyway)? And hell, even in Vanilla Oblivion, you can get stuck somewhere and save and your game is broken. So what's the difference? Mods are something you have to think about before adding them to the game and using them. And if mods are completely incompatible, they might cause your game to crash or something, so what? Restart the console, deselect the mod and run the game again, living without it.

God guys please, really you know when you install a mod you replace textures and sometimes meshes , sometimes even the skeleton of the characters, when you replace a texture the only way to get your old texture back is taking it from the original texture folder wich takes a process to extract from its original package. Well lots of mods not only replace 1 texture they replace hundreds of textures , i wish you luck reloading a savegame to get your textures, meshes back :facepalm:

This not only applies to textures, that is a small example of what can happen that's why i wrote 3 pages ago a wall of text explaining what is needed to get this working (but seems like people only read what they want to believe or dream). No but some guy says " you will be able to get all TES mods directly to your PC" and you all go ohhh he is the savior he is right! ........... please :violin:

I understand everyone wanting this to happen , i also want it to happen because i also have a PS3 and a 360 and i play a LOT , but you guys refuse any valid reason and believe you will be able to use all mods on TES Nexus on a closed console , please don't hurt yourselves get real :cookie:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:18 am

As a console gamer, I could really care less if we got mods or not. I know that lots of people enjoy mods but for me, when I play Morrowind and Oblivion on my PC I get way too distracted with mods. I end up not really playing the game or cheating my way through it. I have both Oblivion and Morrowind for my PC and My Xbox(360) and I have put over 20x more hours into the console versions.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:15 pm

So USERS create the content for free and BGS and/or MS/SONY profit, no Fn way?

Another thing:

Modding is done mostly if not exclusively by other PC players, not console players.
So now PC players is suppose to help with mods for consoles? In other words helping to diminish PC as a platform, since part of the reason and the specialty of PC is that we get MODS.

This rubs me the wrong way and I am starting to get pissed off with BGS, all they talk about is consoles:

1. Looks like we won't have DX11, cause Todd want PC to look like consoles and NOT look any better.
2. Now he wants PC players to supply mods for console players.
3. He or another BGS employee made a statement that 90% of the buyers are console players, which I say is a load of crap.
PC accounts for more than that, hell even COD with is console heaven accounts for 15% of their user base.

Last Elderscroll game that came out was in 2006 for PC and 360, does he really believe that PC only made up 10%?
That to me sounds really bad, tossing out random stats that doesn't even make sense.

Just makes it all look like they are out of touch with PC and really don't care.

Some of you PC user's are starting to show your true colours.Throw away the sour graqes,they are no good for you.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:49 pm

So USERS create the content for free and BGS and/or MS/SONY profit, no Fn way?

Actually, it's going to cost Bethesda, MS and Sony money to provide tools, basic support and bandwith. Maybe more depending on how far they'll support it.

1. Looks like we won't have DX11, cause Todd want PC to look like consoles and NOT look any better.

Didn't I read that some DX11 features are present, but they chose not to make DX11 a requirement.

2. Now he wants PC players to supply mods for console players.

Really, he said that? Where? Seriously I think you're overreacting. All they've said is it 'could' be possible, not that it will actually happen.

3. He or another BGS employee made a statement that 90% of the buyers are console players, which I say is a load of crap.
PC accounts for more than that, hell even COD with is console heaven accounts for 15% of their user base.

Probably a major overexaggeration on their part, but your random stat figure is no better.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:23 pm

I'm sorry but now you're just arguing semantics, extremes, and a minority of mods. Most mods aren't these super complex enigma mods that break games and cause blue screens and bake pizzas and dissect atoms at the same time. :rolleyes:
Also, I'm pretty sure those aren't the types of mods that Bethesda is considering allowing console use over. Probably smaller mods. Mods that don't break the game. Mods that don't cause blue screens. And mods that don't bake pizzas and dissect atoms. Things like..DLC. Things that added..horse armor. New quest. Etc. Nothing insane.

Then what's the point? And how, again, are they going to determine which ones fit this category, and which ones don't?

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:02 pm

Probably smaller mods. Mods that don't break the game. Mods that don't cause blue screens. And mods that don't bake pizzas and dissect atoms. Things like..DLC. Things that added..horse armor. New quest. Etc. Nothing insane.

I am trying to make them understand this read my wall of text 3 pages ago but nooo, i am teH evil lol :shakehead: they think a PS3 and 360 will get Skyrim Graphics Extender , 20k poly armors , 20k poly Hair , Natural Enviroments , etc ... but i give up on this thread :shakehead:

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:48 pm

Someone tweeted Pete asksing if the audience really is 90% console and he replied...."I haven't looked. But if I had to guess, 90% probably isn't far off." Now that really surprises me.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:45 pm

The ONLY way microsoft would let this happen is if they charged for it like DLC. Also MS would most likely require any mod to be tested and pass the QA from them like they do for any XBLA game or such.

So beth would have to first screen mods, give them to MS for QA, then put them up with a price tag.

The only other way it'd work on consoles is if Beth develoepd the game with an internal mod installer/portal. So that you could install mods from within the game (IE, like how Little big planets user content works) or such.

Where in the game you have a menu to browse mods and things, to d/l them and install from within the game, abijlity to turn them on/off, etc. However this is something that has to be done very early and likely beth didn't go taht far with it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:58 am

Some of you PC user's are starting to show your true colours.Throw away the sour graqes,they are no good for you.

Thankfully, the truely rabid are few and far between.

The rest of us are willing to accept modding on consoles IF it doesn't result in limitations on the PCs modding capabilities.

To be honest, I can't see it happening on the current gen, but maybe with the next gen, who knows.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:49 am

Modding is done mostly if not exclusively by other PC players, not console players.
So now PC players is suppose to help with mods for consoles? In other words helping to diminish PC as a platform, since part of the reason and the specialty of PC is that we get MODS.
2. Now he wants PC players to supply mods for console players.

A lot of people play on console and pc. I'm pretty sure some of them would make mods that they can use on their console.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:04 am

God guys please, really you know when you install a mod you replace textures and sometimes meshes , sometimes even the skeleton of the characters, when you replace a texture the only way to get your old texture back is taking it from the original texture folder wich takes a process to extract from its original package. Well lots of mods not only replace 1 texture they replace hundreds of textures , i wish you luck reloading a savegame to get your textures, meshes back :facepalm:

This not only applies to textures, that is a small example of what can happen that's why i wrote 3 pages ago a wall of text explaining what is needed to get this working (but seems like people only read what they want to believe or dream). No but some guy says " you will be able to get all TES mods directly to your PC" and you all go ohhh he is the savior he is right! ........... please :violin:

I understand everyone wanting this to happen , i also want it to happen because i also have a PS3 and a 360 and i play a LOT , but you guys refuse any valid reason and believe you will be able to use all mods on TES Nexus on a closed console , please don't hurt yourselves get real :cookie:

People don't realize that we're not asking for Tamriel Reborn here. We want small mods.

Then what's the point? And how, again, are they going to determine which ones fit this category, and which ones don't?

The point is, allowing us to have small mods that would do things like:
-Fix bugs that Beth doesn't make patches for
-Add in small things that the general consensus of the community is that it is worth having
-Adding in larger mods that have been proven to be "safe" for the console
Quite a few possibilities.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:05 am

If you download mods rather than the mod tools I would be happy. You can already download files online through the Playstation browser, some hardcoe mods and texture mods would be nice.

I've always been jealous that PC gamers get OOO which looks amazing, it would be nice if such mods could become available for console users. Perhaps do it through the PS store or the Xlive Marketplace for acclaimed mods at the least.

I won't be disappointed if it doesn't materialise but if it does it would be amazing. I don't see the argument that PC will get less support if this happened as viable. PCs are always ahead of consoles as they are constantly changing so of course some mods would be PC exclusive (this is speculation of course as there isn't confirmation of console mods).

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:36 am

God guys please, really you know when you install a mod you replace textures and sometimes meshes , sometimes even the skeleton of the characters, when you replace a texture the only way to get your old texture back is taking it from the original texture folder wich takes a process to extract from its original package. Well lots of mods not only replace 1 texture they replace hundreds of textures , i wish you luck reloading a savegame to get your textures, meshes back :facepalm:

Not true. Obviously you have never, ever installed a mod or only a texture replacer. Its not "replacing" textures like overwriting the files. Its more of a redirection to alternate files with the orignial files still being intact. Those original files are packed in .bsa files anyway. So stop posting untrue things.